Speculation: Wilson for Hartnell

[XxSmashville18Xx]

I still don't understand the hang up on Harnell's contract vs Wilson's.

Hartnell might give you 2 good years, and 2 years where he's old and not any good.

Wilson's going to give you 4 straight years of not being any good.

So, with the fact that the contracts are relatively the same, 2 years of Hartnell wasting space is better than 4 years of Wilson wasting space.

Wilson is having one bad year??? He had a solid year last, Hartnell would only be good for this year and this year only! Point blank, if we're going after a rental it needs to be for a solid scorer not just a net front presence. Only reason why he's scoring is because he's pretty much the only one doing it. Saad and nick aren't doing anything that major. I rather make a move on boedker, he would just be a solid rental for this year. Who knows. Wouldn't trade Wilson for Hartnell maybe for Loui or boedker but not Hartnell

 

[Armourboy]

We don't need to waste assets on a rental, frankly our depth isn't good enough for that.

 

[Viqsi]

If I'm CBJ, I'm looking at Hartnell's age. I know my team is rebuilding, he's not part of our future. So yes, I'd consider moving him for a younger asset that fits more of the team timeline.

Problems with this idea:
1) We have tons of younger assets already. We're, like, the sixth youngest team in the League, last I checked. And we're likely about to get another top one with this year's 1st.
2) The team hopes to rebound next year.
3) We need guys who can shelter those younger assets. Hartnell is fantastic at that.

 

[beardawg]

Wilson is having one bad year??? He had a solid year last, Hartnell would only be good for this year and this year only! Point blank, if we're going after a rental it needs to be for a solid scorer not just a net front presence. Only reason why he's scoring is because he's pretty much the only one doing it. Saad and nick aren't doing anything that major. I rather make a move on boedker, he would just be a solid rental for this year. Who knows. Wouldn't trade Wilson for Hartnell maybe for Loui or boedker but not Hartnell

The funny thing is people have been pegging Hartnell to slow down for the last few seasons, and he just hasn't. His production has actually gone up. Even in the last season of his contract, it'd be worth it if he can just put up 30 points.

I'm all for this deal. Wilson will never be a top 6 forward

 

[beardawg]

We don't need to waste assets on a rental, frankly our depth isn't good enough for that.

Our forward depth is actually pretty good right now. Hartnell wouldn't be a rental

 

[RaiderDoug]

Wilson is having one bad year??? He had a solid year last, Hartnell would only be good for this year and this year only! Point blank, if we're going after a rental it needs to be for a solid scorer not just a net front presence. Only reason why he's scoring is because he's pretty much the only one doing it. Saad and nick aren't doing anything that major. I rather make a move on boedker, he would just be a solid rental for this year. Who knows. Wouldn't trade Wilson for Hartnell maybe for Loui or boedker but not Hartnell

Wilson isn't having one bad year.

He's only had one good year.

This year has been pretty par for the course with Wilson - somewhere around .40 ppg.

We gambled that he had turned the corner when he went beast mode in the playoffs, and it isn't working out.

And how is Hartnell a rental? He's signed for 3 more years after this one. And his game isn't really based on skating, so I don't know if I see him slowing down in the near future.

 

[Armourboy]

Our forward depth is actually pretty good right now. Hartnell wouldn't be a rental

Yes I know, I was responding to the idea of Boedker

 

[kypredsfan]

Understood, and I'm not trying to single you out there (apologies if it came across that way, which I acknowledge it very easily could). I just want it to be clear to folks who still presume the idea has any real hope of happening.

Weren't you the one also saying a straight up RyJo for Jones trade wasn't gonna happen?

 

[triggrman]

Wilson isn't having one bad year.

He's only had one good year.

This year has been pretty par for the course with Wilson - somewhere around .40 ppg.

We gambled that he had turned the corner when he went beast mode in the playoffs, and it isn't working out.

And how is Hartnell a rental? He's signed for 3 more years after this one. And his game isn't really based on skating, so I don't know if I see him slowing down in the near future.

His first full year he had 16 goals, I'd say that's good.

The next season he had 34 points in 68 games. I'd say that's good, not great but good. .5 ppg.

lock out year he posted 19 points in 25 games, that's pretty good.

the next year not so good, 33 points, only 11 goals.

The next year he posted 20 goals and 42 points and was a beast in the playoffs. I'd say that's a good year. again around .5.

this year hasn't been good but when you watch him, he creates a lot just doesn't get the finish from his linemates or he doesn't finish himself.

His career has been .47 ppg, not .4, this has been a bad year. Ironically Hartnell's ppg after his first 6 seasons, .48.

 

[Viqsi]

Weren't you the one also saying a straight up RyJo for Jones trade wasn't gonna happen?

I kept saying that I didn't like it because I wanted the risk of Jones possibly not stepping up his game mitigated somewhat - I never said that it would not or could not happen, just that I did not like the risk and so I wanted something else. That didn't happen, but Jones did step up his game so it's a nonissue.

Now, do you have an actual counterargument beyond this kind of knee-jerk ad hominem bull****, or do you just want to play "but I really really want it to happen so stop being a big poo-poo face"?


Seriously I am getting really, really sick and ****ing tired of people trying to spin the Johansen-Jones trade as something I somehow got "wrong" (news flash: I said he'd be traded only for a top-pairing or potential #1D - GOSH LOOK WHAT HAPPENED) and moreover pretending that that's actually somehow a legit argument against anything else I might have to say.

* * *​

His first full year he had 16 goals, I'd say that's good.

The next season he had 34 points in 68 games. I'd say that's good, not great but good. .5 ppg.

lock out year he posted 19 points in 25 games, that's pretty good.

the next year not so good, 33 points, only 11 goals.

The next year he posted 20 goals and 42 points and was a beast in the playoffs. I'd say that's a good year. again around .5.

this year hasn't been good but when you watch him, he creates a lot just doesn't get the finish from his linemates or he doesn't finish himself.

His career has been .47 ppg, not .4, this has been a bad year. Ironically Hartnell's ppg after his first 6 seasons, .48.

Those first six seasons of Hartnell's were with the Trotz-coached Predators. And he was regularly scoring 20+ goals/year at that point (22 goals in season 6, 25 in season 5, 18 in 59 games in season 4). And he was two years younger (he was 24 years old during his sixth season).

 

[Scoresberg]

If Hartnell comes and Wolson leaves, Hartnell obviously goes to the top line. Start planning the parade with the 3rd line of Jarnkrok-Fisher-Arvidsson.,

 

[WartracePred]

I kept saying that I didn't like it because I wanted the risk of Jones possibly not stepping up his game mitigated somewhat - I never said that it would not or could not happen, just that I did not like the risk and so I wanted something else. That didn't happen, but Jones did step up his game so it's a nonissue.

Now, do you have an actual counterargument beyond this kind of knee-jerk ad hominem bull****, or do you just want to play "but I really really want it to happen so stop being a big poo-poo face"?


Seriously I am getting really, really sick and ****ing tired of people trying to spin the Johansen-Jones trade as something I somehow got "wrong" (news flash: I said he'd be traded only for a top-pairing or potential #1D - GOSH LOOK WHAT HAPPENED) and moreover pretending that that's actually somehow a legit argument against anything else I might have to say.

* * *​

Those first six seasons of Hartnell's were with the Trotz-coached Predators. And he was regularly scoring 20+ goals/year at that point (22 goals in season 6, 25 in season 5, 18 in 59 games in season 4). And he was two years younger (he was 24 years old during his sixth season).

Too lazy to do the research, but didn't Hartnell put up those numbers when Sully, Kariya, Dumont, Rads, and Arnott were around? Maybe I'm wrong. But if Wilson played with that group I'd guess his numbers would be better too. Not saying Wilson is as productive as Hartnell now. But maybe the difference between the two at Wilson's age isn't so stark.

 

[maplepred]

Kinda off topic but is there a chance maybe we retain Wilson and trade smith for harts??

Smith always comes in on a bad angle and just fires it at the net, I feel like Wilson has more talent and is more flashy with the puck just doesn't finish but that can be fixed maybe.

Plus smith is hot lately and I would think maybe the jackets would add in this case.

I just feel Wilson is a better hockey player than smith overall just needs to figure things out still. I know they are close in age but watching smiths game I think with him what you see is what you get.

Just a thought, probably get bashed for this thought a little but it's my opinion.

Either way I'm happier seeing harts than either of those two, so frustrating. Also as someone above mentioned, Hartnells game does not rely on skating so why would he slow down?? And he's a beast,
Martin stlouis just retired recently but was a beast until he was 38 and he was like a foot smaller than harts.

 

[RaiderDoug]

So much excuse making for Wilson. This is the guy's 7th year in the league. How long are we going to wait for him to figure things out, learn to finish, or find the right linemates?

The man is being paid 1 million dollars per goal.

He's our very own David Clarkson.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

If Hartnell comes and Wolson leaves, Hartnell obviously goes to the top line. Start planning the parade with the 3rd line of Jarnkrok-Fisher-Arvidsson.,

As opposed to Fisher and Wilson on our third now?

 

[NSH615]

As opposed to Fisher and Wilson on our third now?

19-12-38 will never score a goal. I know Fisher has size, he's lost his edge. The rest of that line is too small to hold its own. We watched that failure for half the season.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

19-12-38 will never score a goal. I know Fisher has size, he's lost his edge. The rest of that line is too small to hold its own. We watched that failure for half the season.

Yes, because Wilson is doing so much better.

 

[NSH615]

Yes, because Wilson is doing so much better.

When did I say Wilson was doing so much better? Wilson just isn't effective this year no matter where he is placed. That combo of 19-?-38 is just way too small and one of 19 or 38 needs to get moved off that line.

 

[triggrman]

Those first six seasons of Hartnell's were with the Trotz-coached Predators. And he was regularly scoring 20+ goals/year at that point (22 goals in season 6, 25 in season 5, 18 in 59 games in season 4). And he was two years younger (he was 24 years old during his sixth season).

And Wilson's were with who, Batman? BTW, the Trotz teams that saw Hartnell score 22 and 25 goals, had more talent than any Wilson has gotten to play with. Kariya, Dumont, Arnott, Sullivan, Radulov.. Even David Legwand scored 27 goals on that team with 63 points. Meanwhile Wilson has had to play on Trotz teams were Shea Weber was the leading goal scorer or anyone that broke 50 points lead the team, no 85 point, Kariya or ppg. Sullivan

And yes, Hartnell did score 20 goals a season for 2 of those seasons but his ppg was still .48 only .01 higher than the terrible Wilson, he's the better goal scorer, always has been but Wilson is the better playmaker and skater.

 

[Montross]

If Hartnell comes and Wolson leaves, Hartnell obviously goes to the top line. Start planning the parade with the 3rd line of Jarnkrok-Fisher-Arvidsson.,

You are missing the point. The 3rd line is pure garbage now with Wilson on it. It won't get worse by putting someone else in his spot. Hartnell would go to the top line and make it quite a bit better than it is now. Plus you get Hartnell's experience, good PP play, and ability to crash the net which is SORELY needed on this team.

Bottom line, parade or not, Hartnell makes this team better than Wilson does.

 

[triggrman]

You are missing the point. The 3rd line is pure garbage now with Wilson on it. It won't get worse by putting someone else in his spot. Hartnell would go to the top line and make it quite a bit better than it is now. Plus you get Hartnell's experience, good PP play, and ability to crash the net which is SORELY needed on this team.

Bottom line, parade or not, Hartnell makes this team better than Wilson does.

Is the 3rd line garbage because of Wilson?



I guess I'm watching something different. Wilson isn't getting the results but he's a playmaker playing with Fisher who is right there with Gaustad offensively right now.

 

[Montross]

And yes, Hartnell did score 20 goals a season for 2 of those seasons but his ppg was still .48 only .01 higher than the terrible Wilson, he's the better goal scorer, always has been but Wilson is the better playmaker and skater.

Better playmaker? Hartnell has had more assists than Wilson in virtually every season.

Wilson is a 1st round forward who gets about 30ish points a year. He is what he is now, whether you guys want to admit it or not.

 

[triggrman]

Yeah, so much better after 6 seasons. .47 v. .48

again whether you want to admit it or not, Hartnell has played with Kariya, Sullivan, Arnott, Dumont, Radulov, Giroux and Jagr

And if you can't watch the 2 players skate and see that Wilson is the better playmaker then I can't help you ....

 

[triggrman]

One last argument from me.

The worst center Hartnell has played with, Legwand.


The best center Wilson has played with, Legwand.....

 

[RaiderDoug]

Yeah, so much better after 6 seasons. .47 v. .48

again whether you want to admit it or not, Hartnell has played with Kariya, Sullivan, Arnott, Dumont, Radulov, Giroux and Jagr

And if you can't watch the 2 players skate and see that Wilson is the better playmaker then I can't help you ....

Wilson's the better playmaker? OK. When they start awarding points in the standings for "playmaking", then he'll be useful.

Until then, give me the guy that actually scores goals.