William Nylander Part XIV

[Pookie]

Between 3 and 5m? I don't follow.

Players with his production, age and contract status generally inked for between 3-5M in the 2017 Market.

In the 2018 Market, players with his production, age, contract status generally inked for between 5-7M.

That gamble of not pursuing a contract last year will cost the Leafs.

The thing some people forget it that he’s more expensive because he’s actually produced. That’s a good problem.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that Pastrnak scored 34 goals... that's THIRTY FOUR GOALS... and 70 points... that's SEVENTY POINTS... and signed for 6.6 million just last year. This should be stickied to the top of the leaf board in bolded all caps. It should be recorded and blared through the speakers for every person on hfboards. It should NEVER be forgotten.

How can the leafs possibly compete if we pay our (lol) 20 goal/60 point players more than other teams pay their 34 goal 70 point players?

I fully agree with this. Only Matthews is definitively better than Pasternak. We want the cup.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Players with his production, age and contract status generally inked for between 3-5M in the 2017 Market.

In the 2018 Market, players with his production, age, contract status generally inked for between 5-7M.

That gamble of not pursuing a contract last year will cost the Leafs.

The thing some people forget it that he’s more expensive because he’s actually produced. That’s a good problem.

So if the leafs offer Nylander 5 million per, that's the lower end of market value?

 

[socko]

That gamble of not pursuing a contract last year will cost the Leafs.

No it will not. The Leafs can make him sit for 5 years if they want.
And his value did not go up last year. He produced the same as the year before which is generally seen as a negative with a player that is going to become a "superstar".

 

[Daisy Jane]

See below. I mean above.

A person who breaks up a marriage, demanded a trade and never took a discount until he was on his retirement legs should not be professing about the virtues of being a team player.

or you know. someone who made decisions that weren't that smart, grew and learned from them, knows what he's talking about and is imparting some advice not to do stuff he did, but hey why use logic, just call him derogatory names. seems smart to me.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No it will not. The Leafs can make him sit for 5 years if they want.
And his value did not go up last year. He produced the same as the year before which is generally seen as a negative with a player that is going to become a "superstar".

He's trying to say that 60 point players signed for 3-5 million last year, but are now for some reason getting 5-7 million this year. So, under that argument, the leafs blew it by not signing him last year.

The link he showed doesn't really support his argument though. So now I'm just confused.

 

[TheProspector]

Willie scored primary points at the 36th highest rate in the NHL.

Similar, but better, than Duchene, Eichel, Tarasenko, Laine, Kopitar, Tavares, Marner...

He also was 25th highest in point scoring rate -- but I'm willing to concede that is because of who he played with.

Willie is worth a lot of money. The negative things said about him are absurd. Even if we aren't getting him at a deal (yet).

 

[socko]

I thought the Shanahan story was dumb and revisionist history at best but the Leafs are not lowballing Nylander. 6x6 is a very good offer. It's better than the 6x7 that Ehlers just got last year. And Ehlers had one less year of RFA on top of that. And Ehlers has more goals. Very good deal. But Nylander is an idiot.

 

[Iapyi]

Get rid of this prima dona, I did prefer that we maintain his services and without knowing the actual #s being presented by both sides it is difficult to take a side but at the same time I put more of the blame on Nylander.

I am certain we have outlined our long term plan and team contract strategy to him and if that doesn't jive with what he thinks he is worth then he is putting himself before the team.

Exile him to Arizona.

 

[nuck]

Willie scored primary points at the 36th highest rate in the NHL.

Similar, but better, than Duchene, Eichel, Tarasenko, Laine, Kopitar, Tavares, Marner...

He also was 25th highest in point scoring rate -- but I'm willing to concede that is because of who he played with.

Willie is worth a lot of money. The negative things said about him are absurd. Even if we aren't getting him at a deal (yet).

I don't disagree some of the negative things being posted are really grasping. For him to want to lock in to the best possible deal for the next 6-8 years is just common sense. To most of us I think it is less about the things he isn't and more about people realizing that the big 3 plus JT was only going to work in an ideal scenario, and that scenario isn't whats unfolding. If he is actually worth over $7M it doesn't matter, because they can't afford that number and still get the other two inked unless they let Gards walk and replace him with a cheap player who doesn't belong in anyone's top 4.This is already not a Stanley Cup D, never mind subtractions.

I don't want him gone because his upside isn't established and it is more likely they lose on any Willie trade then win. I just don't think they can fit his expectations within the cap.

 

[Iapyi]

I don't disagree some of the negative things being posted are really grasping. For him to want to lock in to the best possible deal for the next 6-8 years is just common sense. To most of us I think it is less about the things he isn't and more about people realizing that the big 3 plus JT was only going to work in an ideal scenario, and that scenario isn't whats unfolding. If he is actually worth over $7M it doesn't matter, because they can't afford that number and still get the other two inked unless they let Gards walk and replace him with a cheap player who doesn't belong in anyone's top 4.This is already not a Stanley Cup D, never mind subtractions.

I don't want him gone because his upside isn't established and it is more likely they lose on any Willie trade then win. I just don't think they can fit his expectations within the cap.

Then let him sit for 5 years. If that is the best way to utilize this particular asset then that is what needs to be done.

I hope no one comes up some malarkey opinion that if we need to do this that we need to worry about other players wanting to play for us because that is just pure nonsense.

 

[34]

Just trade him already. Willy is clearly is not buying in to the plan here.

 

[Faltorvo]

I don't project them to be the same. Just looking for any players who could be claimed as remotely comparable signing a 3 year bridge.

Who would be some other ELC forwards with back to back 60 point seasons who signed three year bridges?

well 25 year old william karlsson after a 43 goal 35a = 78 points season ONLY got 5.25 on a 1 year bridge , plus he had a 15 point play off and he is their #1C.

 

[Menzinger]

well 25 year old william karlsson after a 43 goal 35a = 78 points season ONLY got 5.25 on a 1 year bridge , plus he had a 15 point play off and he is their #1C.

Because he hadn’t shown anywhere near that offensive ability before and at 25 is in the middle of his prime.

That’s not a comparable situation to Nylander

 

[Faltorvo]

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that Pastrnak scored 34 goals... that's THIRTY FOUR GOALS... and 70 points... that's SEVENTY POINTS... and signed for 6.6 million just last year. This should be stickied to the top of the leaf board in bolded all caps. It should be recorded and blared through the speakers for every person on hfboards. It should NEVER be forgotten.

How can the leafs possibly compete if we pay our (lol) 20 goal/60 point players more than other teams pay their 34 goal 70 point players?

funny there was also a winger singed in july 2017

Viktor arvidsson, what did he do to EARN his 4.25m 7 y deal, ahh just a 31 goals 61 point season.

 

[Faltorvo]

No it will not. The Leafs can make him sit for 5 years if they want.
And his value did not go up last year. He produced the same as the year before which is generally seen as a negative with a player that is going to become a "superstar".

i can't argue against that

 

[mouser]

well 25 year old william karlsson after a 43 goal 35a = 78 points season ONLY got 5.25 on a 1 year bridge , plus he had a 15 point play off and he is their #1C.

Lots of difficulties in comparing the two, including:
- Karlsson’s career high before last year was 25 points. His career totals were 183GP, 18G/32A/50PTS.
- Karlsson would have gotten a healthy amount more then $5.25m per on a three year deal.

Fwiw, I think a fair one year bridge for Nylander would be around $3.5-$3.75m. In part because he might accept a lower salary in return for a quicker new contract with arbitration rights.

 

[Faltorvo]

I thought the Shanahan story was dumb and revisionist history at best but the Leafs are not lowballing Nylander. 6x6 is a very good offer. It's better than the 6x7 that Ehlers just got last year. And Ehlers had one less year of RFA on top of that. And Ehlers has more goals. Very good deal. But Nylander is an idiot.

i'm not paying 6m for 1 year of UFA,,not a chance.

that pretty much a glorified bridge.

 

[Faltorvo]

Lots of difficulties in comparing the two, including:
- Karlsson’s career high before last year was 25 points. His career totals were 183GP, 18G/32A/50PTS.
- Karlsson would have gotten a healthy amount more then $5.25m per on a three year deal.

so what??? last season was ONLY his 3rd full season and last ELC and he showed up to show that he is a bona fide #1c , heck mouser he posted a season that matty has not even matched yet and we have folks talking about giving him 13/14m per.

so you are talking about a #1C that should get 9/10m long term with those numbers and yet his 1y bridge is only 5.25m . So if a 9/10m level #1c 1y bridge is only worth 5.25, what is a 6m winger player worth in a bridge , maybe just maybe 4/4.25m x 3y

 

[Jozay]

Kypreos said a 4 year deal under 20 million total is on the table.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Kypreos said a 4 year deal under 20 million total is on the table.

If true, then how can you blame Nylander
At the end of the day, it's business not only for the team but also for the player

 

[BM14]

If true, then how can you blame Nylander
At the end of the day, it's business not only for the team but also for the player

.......because he'll get paid much more on his next contract at the end of the 4 years if he's as Godly as some of you think he is?

 

[dubey]

If true, then how can you blame Nylander
At the end of the day, it's business not only for the team but also for the player

Blame him? The Leafs aren't just shitting out random contract numbers. They are using similar players as comparables.

Kucherov $4.8M AAV
Panarin $6M AAV

 

[mouser]

so what??? last season was ONLY his 3rd full season and last ELC and he showed up to show that he is a bona fide #1c , heck mouser he posted a season that matty has not even matched yet and we have folks talking about giving him 13/14m per.

so you are talking about a #1C that should get 9/10m long term with those numbers and yet his 1y bridge is only 5.25m . So if a 9/10m level #1c 1y bridge is only worth 5.25, what is a 6m winger player worth in a bridge , maybe just maybe 4/4.25m x 3y

Well, if folks thought Karlsson was worth $9/$10m on a long term deal, then signing $5.25 for one year isn’t that different then Nylander being worth $6.5m or so on a long term deal and signing for one year at $3.5-$3.75m (as I added to my earlier post)

I think once you start going past two years on a bridge that the expected AAV takes a healthy jump when discussing the “prove it to me” bridge deals. Maybe not all the way to $5m, but I’d guess closer to 5 then 4. $4.75m or better range on three years.

 

[rumman]

If true, then how can you blame Nylander
At the end of the day, it's business not only for the team but also for the player

if that's true, why hasn't a team put a offer sheet in?