Will the Habs fire their GM?

[dre2112]

one of the worst rookie development programs in the league. He should be fired on that alone

 

[Rafafouille]

His worst fail was implementing the Therrien's system across the board, including the farm team, which completely derailed players development in favor of a sterile "team concept" that was a complete disaster. He's got nobody coming up from the AHL and his only hope is from the CHL or European guys. Habs have good scouts, both pro and amateur, but they can't beat the "system". Now, he put all his cards into Julien so he bought time. Doubt it'll work but Julien's a good coach so you never know. Molson will wait at least a couple of years to fire him unless Price is injured and/or the team collapses, which remains a possibility. Shaw and Gallagher are damaged goods. Plekanec and Markov, if they remain with the team, were great players for the team but they're now marginal. Danault is a good 3rd line C playing on the first line. Galchenyuk and Beaulieu have not progressed much since their Junior years as their skills were sacrificed for Therrien's concept. That team is in a sorry state and Bergevin's right when he says he can't make a decent trade since he has nobody to trade. And it's all on him.

Therrien hasn't been the cause of Beaulieu and Galchenyuk's problems. Their constant habit of putting partying before work is why they haven't progressed like they should've.

 

[A1LeafNation]

probably tomorrow.

 

[CheldishGamibno]

I think people are overreacting here.

The fact that he needs to bring top 6 talent does not mean that he needs to stop trying to improve his bottom 6.

The trades he ade at the deadline were not bad at all. Ott was great in the playoffs, Benn was amazing for the end of the season. King and Martinsen were failed gambles I agree, but they did not cost a lot.

It's clear that Bergevin failed to bring top 6 talent in montreal, but during his 5 years he was probably the best GM in the league to build depth and a solid all around team.

The Canadiens have had good season under him because they have had bottom lines that almost always outperformed the opponents bottom lines.

Guys like Danault, Mitchell, Byron, Weise, Fleischman, Shaw, Benn, Weaver have been great bottom 6 / top 6 D for the Habs. Bergevin has a solid pro scouting team around him that allowed him to make those great depth moves.


All in all he has been pretty average, because he did fail to bring offense, but people need to stop ******** on him for making depth moves, he is one the bests at it. 1 does not prevent the other, it's not because he trades for bottom 6 players that he isn't trying to get top 6 players at the same time. This logic is absolutely stupid.

The Subban trade shadows everything else. No good GM with a bit of a brain trades its franchise player.

 

[BobbyShehan]

Therrien hasn't been the cause of Beaulieu and Galchenyuk's problems. Their constant habit of putting partying before work is why they haven't progressed like they should've.

Really? Young athletes, all sports included, have the health and stamina to "party" pretty hard. Guy Lafleur used to smoke between periods and I used to meet Chris Nilan and Carbo when Crescent bars were at closing times, on a game night. The rumors of partying from the stupid media might be true or not but it's certainly not an explanation to the fact that these two are in crying need of basic skills development which was completely ignored under Therrien and his little friends in the AHL.

 

[Burke the Legend]

crying need of basic skills development which was completely ignored under Therrien and his little friends in the AHL.

Or maybe both those two just aren't that smart?

A lot of guys have the physical skills to play in the NHL but don't have the mind to keep pace with the lightning fast decision making. They look great in junior and minor leagues with more time/space but can never adapt to the much faster NHL place.

There's limits to how much that can be improved through training by even the greatest coaches.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The guy was Montreal. And they almost finished last.

So THAT Montreal had to go.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever though.

You have a crap season so you trade away the only guy who showed up? WTF? You fix what's broken not what's working. It would be like the late 80s Nordiques trading away Sakic because they missed the playoffs...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I am taking bets. Price signs 8 year extension this summer with the Habs. It'll be higher than Toews/Kane money at the very least.

I'll take that bet.

Above all, what Montreal needs is a true hockey mind at the president of hockey operations position, currently held by a spoiled businessman (Geoff Molson), who will then bring a new philosophy to the franchise.

That new president will then be able to purge the team at all levels from the GM to the scouting department, and then proceed to a true rebuild.

Montreal needs a real GM.

Problem is that this guy hasn't even started the five year extension he was given TWO YEARS AGO. That extension kicks in starting now. Even if they wanted to fire the guy I don't see how they do it now.

I think he gets the boot if they have another bad year or first round exit though.

5 years in...

Plan: Build through draft
Results: one of worst prospect pools in NHL.

Plan: sustainable success
Results: aging/high cap team with no young players close to good enough to replace them


He's most overrated GM in NHL. Once Price, Weber, Pacioretty start to regress it's going to get ugly.

Inherited a great young core and ****ed it up. The way he treated Subban was disgraceful and hiring Therrien was a disastrous move. They've screwed up Galchenyuk's development and have created a mess. That team should've been so much better... all it needed was a decent coach and some forwards to help out. Galchenyuk should be a hell of a lot further ahead than he is.

 

[BLONG7]

You are comparing the #1 market for lack of taxes to the 31st though when speaking about Montreal. I would be stunned if Price signs for less Than Lundqvist. Price has won the Heart trophy and it's been a few years since the Rangers gave Lundqvist that contract.

8.75M is a little more than the King, not less...he has indicated he will sign a cap friendly deal...it wont be in the Kane/Toews area that's for sure...the cap hit Price takes, will not cripple the team...

Let me guess, you were one of those guys like Kipper, who said no way Stamkos stays in Tbay for 8.5M...............and guess what he did!!

 

[General Disarray]

When Nashville wins the cup, does it get the conversation started at least?

Everyone knew that was a bad trade when it happened and still do today. But when Nashville wins, I think even the GM and ownership would have to admit it too.

 

[BobbyShehan]

Or maybe both those two just aren't that smart?

A lot of guys have the physical skills to play in the NHL but don't have the mind to keep pace with the lightning fast decision making. They look great in junior and minor leagues with more time/space but can never adapt to the much faster NHL place.

There's limits to how much that can be improved through training by even the greatest coaches.

Not ONE pick from the Bergevin years has panned out after a stint in the AHL. NOT ONE.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Not ONE pick from the Bergevin years has panned out after a stint in the AHL. NOT ONE.

So you're very angry he hasn't managed to draft a player from the #25-30 picks who is now making a NHL impact as an under 22 year old? hfboards...

 

[BobbyShehan]

So you're very angry he hasn't managed to draft a player from the #25-30 picks who is now making a NHL impact as an under 22 year old? hfboards...

I'm talking about good prospects who don't get better or who get worse. Tinordi, De La Rose, Beaulieu, Dietz, Galchenyuk, Pateryn, Hudon, Andrighetto, McCarron, Scherbak, etc. You wanna tell me all these guys were hams? Whoever you draft needs to work on their skills, no matter how good they are in Junior. When there's no development system, they start getting behind lesser guys. There's plenty of examples of good farm systems in the league. The Habs sure are not one of them.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I'm talking about good prospects who don't get better or who get worse. Tinordi, De La Rose, Beaulieu, Dietz, Galchenyuk, Pateryn, Hudon, Andrighetto, McCarron, Scherbak, etc. You wanna tell me all these guys were hams? Whoever you draft needs to work on their skills, no matter how good they are in Junior. When there's no development system, they start getting behind lesser guys. There's plenty of examples of good farm systems in the league. The Habs sure are not one of them.

None of those guys are very good. Typical Hfboards overrating your homer low pick prospects. You gotta accept that like 90% of all drafted players (outside the top 15) never play more than 100-200 (if that) games in the NHL. It's very difficult to crack.

The only one with impact ability is Galchenyuk, who actually has a ++ one-timer and stickhandling but he seems to be low IQ so will always have trouble putting it all together. Another low IQ guy is Beaulieu, you can see how he makes plays at 1/2 the speed of Markov a guy almost old enough to be his father, that ability to read the ice super fast and make great decisions instantly is just not something you can teach.

It's quite interesting to watch Arturri Lekhonen (funny you didn't mention him in your list) and contrast with Galchenyuk how much better at positioning himself in open ice to get shots off, and positioning himself along boards to win battles. All in his first year on NA ice while Galchenyuk has 5 NHL seasons! Now that guy has actually has potential to be a gamer, he has it going on between the ears.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

I'm talking about good prospects who don't get better or who get worse. Tinordi, De La Rose, Beaulieu, Dietz, Galchenyuk, Pateryn, Hudon, Andrighetto, McCarron, Scherbak, etc. You wanna tell me all these guys were hams? Whoever you draft needs to work on their skills, no matter how good they are in Junior. When there's no development system, they start getting behind lesser guys. There's plenty of examples of good farm systems in the league. The Habs sure are not one of them.

One slight cavil: I don't think Pateryn was drafted by the Habs.

 

[adsfan]

Weber has been better than Subban this season and during these playoffs. So that trade has not been a negative for MB (at least not yet).

He brought in Radulov who is the habs best forward. He got a 20 goalscorer (Byron) for free. He got a 2nd line center (Danault) + 2nd round pick for basically nothing (Weise + Fleishmann). He got Benn, who is a very good bottom pairing defenseman, for a struggling 7th D (pateryn).

Oh and he also got a top 5 coach in the nhl, who is the best current coach who can speak french.

He hadn't done much in his first 3-4 years in terms of improving the team, but the past year he did a tremendous job.

I think he's going hard this summer again, and sign guys like Shipachev, Dadonov, etc. who will help the habs a lot.

Playoff numbers:

Weber 1 G 2 A 3 pts 6 games. In 10 games, Weber would have 5 points.

Subban 1 G 6 A 7 pts 10 games.

This is the second time that I have seen you have post something about Subban that can be shown to be false by some simple mathematics!

Maybe if Nashville wins the Stanley Cup (Coupe Stanley) with Subban, the Montreal GM will get fired. There are a lot of factors to consider. The Preds have a 1 in 4 chance at the moment.

 

[The Great Weal]

Playoff numbers:

Weber 1 G 2 A 3 pts 6 games. In 10 games, Weber would have 5 points.

Subban 1 G 6 A 7 pts 10 games.

This is the second time that I have seen you have post something about Subban that can be shown to be false by some simple mathematics!

Maybe if Nashville wins the Stanley Cup (Coupe Stanley) with Subban, the Montreal GM will get fired. There are a lot of factors to consider. The Preds have a 1 in 4 chance at the moment.

Weber would NOT have 5 points, he looked done after game 3

 

[Habs76]

One slight cavil: I don't think Pateryn was drafted by the Habs.

Did he say he was?

 

[BobbyShehan]

It's quite interesting to watch Arturri Lekhonen (funny you didn't mention him in your list) and contrast with Galchenyuk how much better at positioning himself in open ice to get shots off, and positioning himself along boards to win battles. All in his first year on NA ice while Galchenyuk has 5 NHL seasons! Now that guy has actually has potential to be a gamer, he has it going on between the ears.[/QUOTE]

I specifically didn't mention Lekhonen because he hasn't been brought up from the Habs. He stayed in Europe, thankfully, and developed his skills over there. Wasn't wasted by the "system" and he certainly wasn't a top 15 pick. Galchenyuk had Therrien to learn from. Nothing to do with his IQ.
Pateryn was traded from the Leafs right off the draft and was wasted by the Habs "development".

 

[Burke the Legend]

I specifically didn't mention Lekhonen because he hasn't been brought up from the Habs. He stayed in Europe, thankfully, and developed his skills over there. Wasn't wasted by the "system" and he certainly wasn't a top 15 pick. Galchenyuk had Therrien to learn from. Nothing to do with his IQ.
Pateryn was traded from the Leafs right off the draft and was wasted by the Habs "development".

It's such a weak argument when people remove all agency from these players who are elite athletes, the 0.0001% of the hockey world, competing for roster spots in the world's top league. Really just so absurd to claim someone's failure is determined by coaches, probably the dumbest trope here on hfboards (which is saying a lot), especially with all the contrary stories out there of guys with superb talent and work ethic who were legitimately overlooked by the system still eventually cracking a NHL lineup, people go around claiming that 'sure-thing' NHL prospects had it but were 'ruined' by mean coaches and would be stars otherwise. Ridiculous!! Greg ****ing Pateryn would be a star if only Marc Bergevin pumped his self esteem up a bit more!! This is such bs.