Will Ryan Graves be viewed as a core player by the end of next season?

[CobraAcesS]

It would be perfectly fine if your critique was valid. It's just not valid at all.


Literally everyone in this thread will tell you you're wrong. Girard is a great passer. He wouldnt have 30 assists and on pace for 40 points as a Dman if he wasn't a good passer since we have established he has an awful shot.

Again, I didn't say hes not a good passer. I mentioned his offensive creativity. Guess it's too difficult to parse the two.

Some people remember how the season went, and others don't I guess.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Again, I didn't say hes not a good passer. I mentioned his offensive creativity. Guess it's too difficult to parse the two.

Some people remember how the season went, and others don't I guess.

I mean, you literally word for word said he telegraphs his passes and misses a lot of open passes that would help the team.


As for the 2nd part... That's very true, I just dont think you realize why it's true

 

[CobraAcesS]

I mean, you literally word for word said he telegraphs his passes and misses a lot of open passes that would help the team.


As for the 2nd part... That's very true, I just dont think you realize why it's true

It's more of a knock on his ability to create than passing skill. Hes good at coming out of the zone and outlet passes. It's when hes the QB in the offensive zone that nothing of note happens quite often. Maybe if they had to respect his shot hed have more space, as Hench mentioned, but alas. I don't think he helps himself by taking an extra second either, and its really easy to see where hes going to move the puck.

This is basically the reason he does not produce more. The shot, and lack of awareness/creativity.

Honestly the entire team has a problem with telegraphing passes on the power play to be frank. It drives me bonkers.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's more of a knock on his ability to create than passing skill. Hes good at coming out of the zone and outlet passes. It's when hes the QB in the offensive zone that nothing of note happens quite often. Maybe if they had to respect his shot hed have more space, as Hench mentioned, but alas. I don't think he helps himself by taking an extra second either, and its really easy to see where hes going to move the puck.

This is basically the reason he does not produce more. The shot, and lack of awareness/creativity.

Honestly the entire team has a problem with telegraphing passes on the power play to be frank. It drives me bonkers.

Well now we're talking about something else entirely.


He's not as good of QB as Makar, that's for sure. I think you're underestimating how big of an impact a quality shot can have though. Look at Makar for example. When you have a wrister as lethal as what Cale has from the point, it means Defenders really have to respect that shot more. They have to move much faster to try and get in the lane to not leave the shot open. It creates more space for passing lanes, like a tonne more as well. But when you have a weak shot, Defenders(Especially on the PK) are able to cheat a lot more towards the pass, instead of getting the stick in the shooting lane they can put the stick in passing lanes more.


But at the same time... Gs PP stats are pretty solid as well. He has 13 PP Point and 1 PPG. His 13 PP Points ranks 22nd in the league among Dmen. Ahead of some pretty damn good PP QBs. Tyson Barrie(12 PP Points), Mark Giordano(11 PPPs), OEL(7 PPPs), Morgan Rielly(8 PPPs).



He is a solid offensive guy. He just is. The stats back it up, the numbers back it up, the eye test all back it up. He's not Cale Makar offensively, and never will be. But that doesn't mean he isn't high end. On a lot of teams in the league, he would be the QB for there top PP. Likewise with his defensive game.

He is just a tremendous two-way Dman. Bordering on legit Top pairing already at 21 years old.

 

[McMetal]

But at the same time... Gs PP stats are pretty solid as well. He has 13 PP Point and 1 PPG. His 13 PP Points ranks 22nd in the league among Dmen. Ahead of some pretty damn good PP QBs. Tyson Barrie(12 PP Points), Mark Giordano(11 PPPs), OEL(7 PPPs), Morgan Rielly(8 PPPs).

And on top of that, he got those points on a PP that was frustratingly anemic for most of the year for Avs fans watching it all year. Girard is a competent PMD in his own right. It will be interesting to see if the Avs buck the trend of 4F1D on the power play once Byram gets his offense established and put them both on PP2. I feel like with Byram's shot and Girard's IQ they could make a dangerous combo on the back end.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

And on top of that, he got those points on a PP that was frustratingly anemic for most of the year for Avs fans watching it all year. Girard is a competent PMD in his own right. It will be interesting to see if the Avs buck the trend of 4F1D on the power play once Byram gets his offense established and put them both on PP2. I feel like with Byram's shot and Girard's IQ they could make a dangerous combo on the back end.

I’d like seeing that. Girard/Byram would be better offensively than our 8th best forward.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

And on top of that, he got those points on a PP that was frustratingly anemic for most of the year for Avs fans watching it all year. Girard is a competent PMD in his own right. It will be interesting to see if the Avs buck the trend of 4F1D on the power play once Byram gets his offense established and put them both on PP2. I feel like with Byram's shot and Girard's IQ they could make a dangerous combo on the back end.

He also spent a lot of his time on the PP, on the 2nd unit. Pretty much every game Cale played in, G was the #2 PP guy and Cale on the top unit. Aside from a brief stretch in January I think when they switched things up while Cale was struggling a bit and G was on fire.



So... He spent the majority of his PP time on the ice with the likes of Jost/Compher/Nuke/Donskoi/etc. Solid players dont get me wrong, especially old Nuke and his crazy good year. But none of them are Nate Mackinnon, or Mikko Rantanen, or Gabe Landeskog.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I would expect both Girard and Makar to get more PP points next year.

There were a lot of new bodies on the team this year. They should have better chemistry next year and a full season of Rantanen would definitely help.

 

[Balthazar]

I feel like with Byram's shot and Girard's IQ they could make a dangerous combo on the back end.

Byram doesn't have a great shot yet. I have high expectations that he'll get there but he's going to have to work on it.

Same with Makar actually, as Mack pointed out earlier this season. Both Makar and Byram rely almost exclusively on wristers from the blue line...it's effective too but it's better to have two weapons than just one.

It seems like a lot of Byram's goals consist of him just walking into the slot and scoring with a wrister. It will be interesting to see how his offense translates to the NHL (because he won't be able do that).

 

[McMetal]

Byram doesn't have a great shot yet. I have high expectations that he'll get there but he's going to have to work on it.

Same with Makar actually, as Mack pointed out earlier this season. Both Makar and Byram rely almost exclusively on wristers from the blue line...it's effective too but it's better to have two weapons than just one.

It seems like a lot of Byram's goals consist of him just walking into the slot and scoring with a wrister. It will be interesting to see how his offense translates to the NHL (because he won't be able do that).

As you pointed out, Byram relies on his wrist shot. But honestly, that's a far, far more effective weapon from the blue line than a big cannon of a slap shot, so it doesn't bother me at all that these young defensemen are abandoning it. A big windup just gives defenders a chance to get in your shooting lane these days, no one is afraid to stand in front of Chara anymore if they want to stay in the lineup.

All you really need to score goals in the modern NHL is to get your shots through the screen and on net. Even better if your shot takes a deflection on the way. Goalies will stop anything short of a generational slap shot 99% of the time if they see it come off the stick. The key is to take away their eyes and hit the net, and a wrist shot is exactly as good as a slapshot for those purposes, with the added benefit of being quicker to release and easier to get past the first layer of shot blockers.

You're absolutely right about Byram's offense though. He has been getting by in juniors by being more talented than his competition and being creative enough to take advantage of the lack of structure in the WHL. A lot of what he does currently will not translate to the big leagues where there is both a higher talent floor and rigid systems. I think he's smart enough to adjust, and his physical tools will help him adapt to the demands of the new environment, but it will probably take him a bit to get there. He'll probably have the creativity and physical skill to pull off some fancy plays at the NHL level when defenses break down, but not to the same extent that lets him score at will in the WHL.

 

[Balthazar]

As you pointed out, Byram relies on his wrist shot. But honestly, that's a far, far more effective weapon from the blue line than a big cannon of a slap shot, so it doesn't bother me at all that these young defensemen are abandoning it. A big windup just gives defenders a chance to get in your shooting lane these days, no one is afraid to stand in front of Chara anymore if they want to stay in the lineup.

All you really need to score goals in the modern NHL is to get your shots through the screen and on net. Even better if your shot takes a deflection on the way. Goalies will stop anything short of a generational slap shot 99% of the time if they see it come off the stick. The key is to take away their eyes and hit the net, and a wrist shot is exactly as good as a slapshot for those purposes, with the added benefit of being quicker to release and easier to get past the first layer of shot blockers.

You're absolutely right about Byram's offense though. He has been getting by in juniors by being more talented than his competition and being creative enough to take advantage of the lack of structure in the WHL. A lot of what he does currently will not translate to the big leagues where there is both a higher talent floor and rigid systems. I think he's smart enough to adjust, and his physical tools will help him adapt to the demands of the new environment, but it will probably take him a bit to get there. He'll probably have the creativity and physical skill to pull off some fancy plays at the NHL level when defenses break down, but not to the same extent that lets him score at will in the WHL.

Yeah Byram seems to have the tools and the IQ, it's going to be different for him but I'm not too worried about it. Also he doesn't need to become an offensive dynamo who runs PP1, we already have someone else to do it. No pressure.

 

[McMetal]

Yeah Byram seems to have the tools and the IQ, it's going to be different for him but I'm not too worried about it. Also he doesn't need to become an offensive dynamo who runs PP1, we already have someone else to do it. No pressure.

I can see him having the same kind of offensive strengths as Barrie, where he excels at puck rushing and jumping into the rush more than being an elite passer or fitting comfortably into a rigid structure. I doubt he has that 50 point offensive ceiling that Barrie has, but he's also way better defensively already and will be way less stressful to watch in his own zone without the puck. But the style of generating offense could be fairly similar, and maybe if Bednar is down to let him off the leash the way he was with Tyson we could see him transition his strengths to the NHL.

If I were Bednar though, I'd focus on structure next year with him. Get him used to the NHL in a rigid framework, then slowly take the training wheels off the year after.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I can see him having the same kind of offensive strengths as Barrie, where he excels at puck rushing and jumping into the rush more than being an elite passer or fitting comfortably into a rigid structure. I doubt he has that 50 point offensive ceiling that Barrie has, but he's also way better defensively already and will be way less stressful to watch in his own zone without the puck. But the style of generating offense could be fairly similar, and maybe if Bednar is down to let him off the leash the way he was with Tyson we could see him transition his strengths to the NHL.

If I were Bednar though, I'd focus on structure next year with him. Get him used to the NHL in a rigid framework, then slowly take the training wheels off the year after.

As much as I want Byram to be taught the defensive side of the game at the NHL level, I don’t want it to be at the expense of him losing his creativity offensively.

I was definitely worried that Bednar might ‘over-coach’ Makar. Fortunately that didn’t happen.

 

[Balthazar]

As much as I want Byram to be taught the defensive side of the game at the NHL level, I don’t want it to be at the expense of him losing his creativity offensively.

I was definitely worried that Bednar might ‘over-coach’ Makar. Fortunately that didn’t happen.

From the looks of it it's mainly MacKinnon who coached Makar this year. (I'm only half kidding)

 

[McMetal]

As much as I want Byram to be taught the defensive side of the game at the NHL level, I don’t want it to be at the expense of him losing his creativity offensively.

I was definitely worried that Bednar might ‘over-coach’ Makar. Fortunately that didn’t happen.

I don't see why it has to be one or the other. He's got to learn NHL structure, and the first thing to do is make him learn that. Then, once he has his feet, he can unlearn a little bit of that and find the balance that will allow him to be effective at generating offense. He's still crazy young, after all, and will be an Av for a while.

Besides, a year of playing it safe won't undo the 19 years he's spent becoming an offensive dynamo.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Just imagine making this a poll.

 

[dahrougem2]

**** no.

 

[Richard88]

Nice bump

 

[Avsboy]

Nick Holden, with a more terrified look on his face

 

[Kaizer]

Core 6th defenceman

 

[Vk1ing]

Watching Ryan greaves today made me realize how much we take EJ for granted.

 

[McMetal]

He remains what he has been all year: a #4D taking on too much responsibility.

 

[Metallo]

Did you know that he led the NHL in +/- for the 2019-2020 season?

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

He's garbage.

 

[Alex Jones]

Eh I think a lot of people are being pretty hard on him. I didn't love his playoffs either, but he did his job pretty well for most of the season. Due to his issues (inability to clear, weak in front of the net/along the boards, tendency to get lost and cover nobody) he's probably a low-end four/luxury 5, but I really don't have an issue with him here as the third LD for several more years.