Will Ryan Graves be viewed as a core player by the end of next season?

[Northern Avs Fan]

Will Ryan Graves be viewed as a core player by the end of next season?

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[UncleRisto]

No.

 

[Pokecheque]

No.

 

[The Abusement Park]

No chance.

 

[Bonzai12]

Well this was fun

 

[UncleRisto]

Okay then.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Absolutely, unequivocally, beyond a doubt, yes. Gravy train is bringing the Avs the cup.

 

[henchman21]

Absolutely, unequivocally, beyond a doubt, yes. Gravy train is bringing the Avs the cup.

I like this optimism.























But no.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

My guess is on no, mostly because I think Girard and Byram will be holding down the top-4 LHD spots by the end of next season.

That being said, there is a scenario in which the Avs go on a deep run this year with Makar and Graves paired together. Then maybe they stick with that pairing next year and perhaps Byram struggles his rookie year and that changes things.

But, ultimately I do think Byram will chase down Graves for that spot.

 

[ETTHAKING67]

No,
It's hard to tell for now but a big part of Graves succes is because he's playing with Makar. Graves is a solid piece for sure but he's not a core player. I would also add that with everything that we have invested in D it's hard to see him having a big role in the futur. Our futur LD looks a lot like Sammy G & Byram.

 

[McMetal]

I guess it depends on your definition of "core". For me, players like MacKinnon and Rantanen are "core" players, but Girard isn't. Very good and important, but not a core player you would pay anything to keep around. So unless Graves at least surpasses Girard next season, I'd say not.

That doesn't mean he can't become a key part of our defense, though, and a top 4 staple. He certainly proved last year that he's capable of playing at a top 4 level for extended periods of time. So I think he'll be important and valuable, just not on the same level as Makar.

 

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

I guess it depends on your definition of "core". For me, players like MacKinnon and Rantanen are "core" players, but Girard isn't. Very good and important, but not a core player you would pay anything to keep around. So unless Graves at least surpasses Girard next season, I'd say not.

That doesn't mean he can't become a key part of our defense, though, and a top 4 staple. He certainly proved last year that he's capable of playing at a top 4 level for extended periods of time. So I think he'll be important and valuable, just not on the same level as Makar.

I agree that the definition of a core player is a bit subjective, but I think the organization absolutely views Girard as a core player, and they should. The core players right now are MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and Girard.

Graves on the other hand, no.

 

[missionAvs]

I hope not. He's a decent depth defenseman. Calling him a core player is akin to calling Holden a core player.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think my definition of core player is a little less demanding than others, that’s why I thought this might be a closer poll.

Top 4 D and high-end top 6 forwards are core pieces to me.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

But no.

Just you wait until Makar threatens to leave if his best friend doesn't stay on the team.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What's up with all these random polls lately? I dont see a single realistic scenario where Graves is a core piece for this team.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

What's up with all these random polls lately? I dont see a single realistic scenario where Graves is a core piece for this team.

Just bored haha

 

[PAZ]

If Graves can continue to develop his defensive game and build chemistry with Makar - I wouldn't be surprised if he cements a spot beside Makar. That's the only realistic scenario that I see him being viewed as a 'core' player, similar to Methot's role beside Karlsson.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think my definition of core player is a little less demanding than others, that’s why I thought this might be a closer poll.

Top 4 D and high-end top 6 forwards are core pieces to me.

Disagree there. There's no way you can call every player in the top four on D and top six up front a "core player." Some of those guys are stopgaps or otherwise interchangeable. It's also not outside the realm of possibility that the team's top three centers are core players. That 2009 Penguins team had that setup, and they've gotten by for years by treating their wingers as replaceable parts (until recently, and that's going to end up costing them badly).

The cap just won't allow it. And I'd argue one huge mistake GMs regularly make in terms of cap management is signing a complementary player to a multi-year deal when they would've been better off letting him walk or trading him. I knew right away the Hawks erred badly when they signed Bryan Bickell to a deal after his stellar playoff run (still very sad that his career ended the way it did, but that doesn't change the fact that he was, even in his prime, a complementary player), and I still think the Avs screwed up when they kept Brett Clark around way too long. Of course they never really got anyone better than him in the time he was in Denver, so it's kind of a moot point, but still.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Disagree there. There's no way you can call every player in the top four on D and top six up front a "core player." Some of those guys are stopgaps or otherwise interchangeable. It's also not outside the realm of possibility that the team's top three centers are core players. That 2009 Penguins team had that setup, and they've gotten by for years by treating their wingers as replaceable parts (until recently, and that's going to end up costing them badly).

The cap just won't allow it. And I'd argue one huge mistake GMs regularly make in terms of cap management is signing a complementary player to a multi-year deal when they would've been better off letting him walk or trading him. I knew right away the Hawks erred badly when they signed Bryan Bickell to a deal after his stellar playoff run (still very sad that his career ended the way it did, but that doesn't change the fact that he was, even in his prime, a complementary player), and I still think the Avs screwed up when they kept Brett Clark around way too long. Of course they never really got anyone better than him in the time he was in Denver, so it's kind of a moot point, but still.

Sorry, should’ve specified. I do feel those positions are core players, but they actually have to be good. Otherwise I’d be viewing some pretty awful Colorado Defenceman in the past as core players.

I definitely agree on not wanting to overpay complimentary players. That’s why I think Colorado should be all about short-term contracts for the next several years. I like signing long term deals for star players, but there’s just too much risk with guys like Graves and Burakovsky.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I agree that the definition of a core player is a bit subjective, but I think the organization absolutely views Girard as a core player, and they should. The core players right now are MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, and Girard.

Graves on the other hand, no.

My only add to this list would be Kadri.

Landeskog and Kadri will move from core to complimentary players soon, but right now they’re core guys to me.

 

[henchman21]

The core of the team is currently MacK, Rants, Landy, Makar, Girard, and EJ. A core is who your team is built around and the players that the organization wants to keep around for the long term. I'll be the first to say that EJ shouldn't be there, but he has been a core piece since he got here and has plenty of contract length left to still be there. Provided Byram doesn't bust out of the NHL in the next year, he's in the building blocks and will be core once he establishes himself.

Players like Kadri, Donskoi, Compher, Grubs, etc are adjacent players until the organization is willing to commit to them long-term and in impactful roles (Compher is probably the closest). Newhook, Timmins, Bowers, Kaut, etc could all become core players, but need to prove in the NHL they are capable and good enough to have a long-term commitment.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The core of the team is currently MacK, Rants, Landy, Makar, Girard, and EJ. A core is who your team is built around and the players that the organization wants to keep around for the long term. I'll be the first to say that EJ shouldn't be there, but he has been a core piece since he got here and has plenty of contract length left to still be there. Provided Byram doesn't bust out of the NHL in the next year, he's in the building blocks and will be core once he establishes himself.

Players like Kadri, Donskoi, Compher, Grubs, etc are adjacent players until the organization is willing to commit to them long-term and in impactful roles (Compher is probably the closest). Newhook, Timmins, Bowers, Kaut, etc could all become core players, but need to prove in the NHL they are capable and good enough to have a long-term commitment.

I don’t think you can use contracts as an indication as to whether a player is a core piece, or not.

EJ has significantly declined since inking his deal and Kadri is on contract that was signed a while back in TO.

 

[henchman21]

I don’t think you can use contracts as an indication as to whether a player is a core piece, or not.

EJ has significantly declined since inking his deal and Kadri is on contract that was signed a while back in TO.

The contracts are a symptom of being a core player. EJ was certainly a core player at the time of signing, and all recent actions by the organization signal he still is. We all see the decline, and I would be one of the first to say he should be shipped out... the organization clearly doesn't see it that way.

Yeah Kadri signed his deal in Toronto, but do you really feel he will be here after his deal expires? Only being in a 2-3 year plan doesn't constitute a core player, he's a player that was added to the core to help it compete. If the Avs acquired Nylander instead, I'd say he is a core player as the plan would be for him to be around for 5-6-7-8 years.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The contracts are a symptom of being a core player. EJ was certainly a core player at the time of signing, and all recent actions by the organization signal he still is. We all see the decline, and I would be one of the first to say he should be shipped out... the organization clearly doesn't see it that way.

Yeah Kadri signed his deal in Toronto, but do you really feel he will be here after his deal expires? Only being in a 2-3 year plan doesn't constitute a core player, he's a player that was added to the core to help it compete. If the Avs acquired Nylander instead, I'd say he is a core player as the plan would be for him to be around for 5-6-7-8 years.

I guess I’m more going by his importance to the team, than how long he’ll be with the organization.

I just view Kadri as a more foundational piece to the Avalanche’s success moving forward than I do EJ.

But, I can understand people that leave Kadri out. Usually you’d probably look at a core piece as someone a couple years younger.