Actually pound for pound, Gretzky still have shot at it
Will Ovechkin beat Gretzky in all-time goals?
- Thread starter OppositeLocK
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Actually pound for pound, Gretzky still have shot at it
ScaredStreit
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Would you really suggest that Kadri or Landeskog are better goal scorers than Bossy? That Doughty's better than Orr? That Jones is better than Sawchuk?
Plural
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- Mar 10, 2011
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Yeah. He's like one third of the weight Ovechkin is.
This is a great post. Aside from the generational Crosby, who still trails by 214 goals (roughly four 54 goal seasons) in 141 less games (roughly 1.75 seasons) the next closest players are 249 and 255 goals behind (five 50 goal seasons!) in slightly more games than Ovie has played. Having a 250 goal lead on the pack in the same or less games played is insane.
Ovechkin .612 GPG
Crosby .473 GPG
Malkin .463 GPG
Staal .374 GPG
Marleau .367 GPG
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Why are you listing hall of famers? Can you name EVERY run of the mill top six forward from the 80s? The third and fourth liners of today (not goons, but Cizikas, Brown, etc.) are more talented than the “average” top six forward was 30-40 years ago. That shouldn’t be too controversial a thought.
ScaredStreit
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But the post you’re responding to was about the overall quality of competition for those hall of famers. What you’re saying isn’t relevant at all.
BallardEra
Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
He’s now 5 goals behind Shanahan for #13th overall.
Shanahan had 656 career goals in 1524 games.
Ovechkin is also 150 goals behind Gordie Howe’s career total of 801.
Shanahan had 656 career goals in 1524 games.
Ovechkin is also 150 goals behind Gordie Howe’s career total of 801.
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Those are generously low numbers too. No reason he couldn't get another 45-50 next year.
I reckon he'll get another 7 this year.
50 - 19/20
45 - 20/21
45 - 21/22
37 - 22/23
30 - 23/24
28 - 24/25
That's 235 + 7 = 242 goals. Not impossible. Could get that on just the PP
Oddbob
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I think the next few are low, but there is no guarantee he plays till 40 or is even able to play that long. I think the next few seasons he can still hit 40-50, but he may slow down quite a bit after that. Even the greatest veterans eventually hit that "wall" that signifies the end. Ovy is a heavy player who has played a physical game, and that usually takes a quicker toll than players who play nonphysical.
Dipsy Doodle
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MVP of West Hollywd
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I would vote no. I think it could take him 3 full seasons after this one to get to 800 even if he keeps up a good pace. After that I'm not sure he can get the last 94, he would have to average like 20 goals a season for 4-5 more years while entering his last thirties. It seems like a lot. That's just a lot more seasons to play in general.
Why would they be? Perhaps they are better because of training and such(which would make it harder for the absolute best to stand out) but more talented is a huge reach, unless you believe human species has drastically evolved during the last 40 years or so. Infact I would argue that is indeed a very "controversial thought".
Burke the Legend
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He's probably right that the average talent level of non all star roster filler is higher, but mostly because there's better coaching at all levels making them have more impact relative to the best within their skill limits.
Video Nasty
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I’m sure it will be taken as one because it is more cautious and down to earth than some around here but this is no slam on Ovechkin.
Compared to him breaking the record, it’s far more likely that the people who started watching hockey around when his career began will learn that players can fall off a cliff or least start playing a bit more mortal at any time once the played game totals really start adding up.
Look at LeBron in basketball. HGH suspicions or not, the guy has missed as many games this season as basically his entire career before this season combined.
When someone projects lower totals than he has been scoring for the last handful of years, it shouldn’t be seen as being too low, too conservative, etc. Ovechkin put up a couple of low 30 goal seasons in his prime. It shouldn’t be mind blowing that he will do similar and lower in 2-3 more seasons.
I think Ovechkin has a good shot at Gretzky’s record, the best anyone has in a long time and will for quite some time to come. I don’t think he hits it but it will be a heck of feat if he can become the third 800 goal scorer and likely pass Howe in the process.
Compared to him breaking the record, it’s far more likely that the people who started watching hockey around when his career began will learn that players can fall off a cliff or least start playing a bit more mortal at any time once the played game totals really start adding up.
Look at LeBron in basketball. HGH suspicions or not, the guy has missed as many games this season as basically his entire career before this season combined.
When someone projects lower totals than he has been scoring for the last handful of years, it shouldn’t be seen as being too low, too conservative, etc. Ovechkin put up a couple of low 30 goal seasons in his prime. It shouldn’t be mind blowing that he will do similar and lower in 2-3 more seasons.
I think Ovechkin has a good shot at Gretzky’s record, the best anyone has in a long time and will for quite some time to come. I don’t think he hits it but it will be a heck of feat if he can become the third 800 goal scorer and likely pass Howe in the process.
There’s better coaching, more specialized skills coaching, kids are learning to stick handle at insane levels through systems and drills that people like Pavel Barber develop. Kids begin taking hockey seriously as a career option much earlier in life. Scouting has also come leaps and bounds so that we’re pulling more talent from all corners of the globe than ever before. It really isn’t that controversial at all.
I don't think humans have become any more talented at any given sport in 40 years but what has changed drastically is first and foremost, access to the sport so the talent pool is far deeper than 40 years ago. The big difference is every player today gets more out of their talent than players 40 years ago so the over all level of competition is higher. Look at the old video and tell me everyone skated as well as the players do today.
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