Will MLS eventually surpass the NHL in revenue?

[nyrmetros]

The atmosphere at the LA vs Seattle game is incredible. I can not fathom what the Pacific Northwest rivalries will be like this year.

 

[billycanuck]

The atmosphere at the LA vs Seattle game is incredible. I can not fathom what the Pacific Northwest rivalries will be like this year.

Best idea the MLS has ever had was to include Vancouver and Portland to join Seattle. Wish I was back on the west coast to see it.

Attendance last night in Seattle: 36,433, on a Tuesday.

 

[nyrmetros]

in the rain.
Shame Seattle lost though.

 

[billycanuck]

in the rain.
Shame Seattle lost though.

True, the Sounders need to find a way to beat the Galaxy. But, I am not that concerned. Just hope the Whitecaps beat them all this year.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Best idea the MLS has ever had was to include Vancouver and Portland to join Seattle. Wish I was back on the west coast to see it.

Attendance last night in Seattle: 36,433, on a Tuesday.

I'm really curious as to what type of revenue Seattle pulled in last year. A few years ago, an article posted the revenues of the Galaxy and Toronto FC at $47 million and $27 million respectively. Seattle must be up there with the big boys.

 

[luffis]

Quite entertaining topic.

First of all, do i believe that the MLS can catch the NHL? No, not by a longshot. Like said previously, MLS is competing with the euro soccer scene wich cant be caught (ill get into this a bit later). Can it gain more popularity in the US/CAN? Yes, soccer is an interesting sport and im sure there are plenty of potential fans in a country with 300 million people.

However i found some comments that i found quite funny. Someome stated that its all about money, im quite sure the MLS can generate enough money to compete with top euro clubs for player salaries, but that isnt enough. The prestige and tradition in euro soccer is just far ahead, just like the NHL is to far ahead for Euro hockey leagues to ever catch up. How many here actually believe that the KHL will ever catch up with or go past the NHL? Someone said that if lets say Messi could earn close to the same amount he does in Barcelona in lets say Indepediente he would sure play there. If Ovechkin would get an offer equal to what he earns in Washington from lets say Dynamo or CSKA would he instantly go there? I think not, there is alot of prestige in the NHL that isnt there in the KHL or any other euro league.

Also, ofcourse you follow your home team in the sport you are intrested in. I am a diehard Djurgårdens IF fan and they have a team in both Ice hockey and football (soccer). So do many other organisations in Sweden. I follow them as close as i can in both sports and cheer for them. However, as i am a huge soccer and hockey fan i also watch the UEFA Champions League alot, even though DIF doesnt play there. I also follow the EPL and the German Bundesliga becuase the level of play is amazing. The very same way i try to catch as many NHL games as i can/have time to (as of late i follow more hockey then soccer).

What it all comes down to is that the MLS wont catch up to the big leagues in europe. Every pro soccer players dream is to play in the UEFA chapions league and i have a hard time seeing that changed to the Champions League in the CONACAF. However i will never say never, but its fact, just like the NHL has been known for the best club hockey in the world for a 100 years the same can be said about soccer, the best club soccer in the world belongs to europe and has for many decades. I am quite sure the day will not come in my lifetime when a soccer fan from sweden says "This weekend ill try to catch a MLS game" opposed to a Serie A/La Liga/EPL/Bundesliga game.

Also i am quite sure that the closed league system will not work for soccer in the long run. Soccer by tradition is played in an open league system. The drafting wont work either, although im quite sure alot of NA talent will be drafted and held in the MLS i dont think a promising propect from any euro country would care if they got drafted by a MLS team.

Just my two cents, i didnt mean to offend anyone just vent my opinions. I wish the MLS all the luck and im sure it can gain popularity, but im sure it cant surpass the NHL for one simple reason. The NHL draws attention from all hockey loving countries because it is the highest level of club hockey. The MLS will most probably never gain even 1/10 of the international attention as the NHL.

 

[waltlantz]

As Reverend Lovejoy said...

"Short answer no with a but, long answer YES with an if"...(yea I know it's the otherway around but whatever).

Budding soccer fan and casual hockey fan here, My two cents.

In the short and medium term, NO Soccer will not surpass NHL in revenue. NHL will still likely edge it out. Hockey and more so the NHL as spectator entertainment is much better establised than soccer is in America.

MLS is kinda like i dunno, maybe the NHL after the first expansion from the original six in terms of comparison? Like during the 60s.

There's gonna be fits and starts and like people have said, it's not creme de la creme so you always have people who are gonna spurn it for UEFA soccer.

STILL, like our Scandinavian friends have pointed out, it's not like MLS can't earn a place in the sporting landscape. In Russia and Scandinavia you have your own top tier hockey (and soccer) leagues right? Sure the best go the NHL (or big countries) but it's not like you don't have good local hockey to cheer for and enjoy right?

MLS won't likely equal the NHL anytime soon (more history in the NHL and more potent fanbases in the North) but it's not like it cannot be SUCCESSFUL. It will be what hockey is in Scandinavia and some Slavic countries, popular but a feeder system to the top dogs. Nothing wrong with that.

It just needs to not OVEREXPAND and fix US player development. (Hasn't the amount of US NHL players gone up comparison to decades ago?)

 

[JuniorNelson]

Hockey is a cute, provincial game like hurling compared to soccer. It will never come close to soccer anywhere except Canada.

Really, intelligent analysts have modelled hockey operations and do not invest. When is the last time a corperate buyer approached hockey? Hockey teams are toys for the billionaires who don't mind losing twenty million a year.

The plain fact that the NHL's numbers don't reflect the marketplace suggests they are headed into a CBA with a big bag of BS, hoping nobody smells anything.

I'd say there is serious danger of collapse, if it weren't for those freindly billionaires.

 

[Dado]

This should be split into two sections.

MLS is unlikely to pass hockey in Canada.

MLS is quite likely to pass hockey in the US.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Hockey is a cute, provincial game like hurling compared to soccer. It will never come close to soccer anywhere except Canada.

Really, intelligent analysts have modelled hockey operations and do not invest. When is the last time a corperate buyer approached hockey? Hockey teams are toys for the billionaires who don't mind losing twenty million a year.

The plain fact that the NHL's numbers don't reflect the marketplace suggests they are headed into a CBA with a big bag of BS, hoping nobody smells anything.

I'd say there is serious danger of collapse, if it weren't for those freindly billionaires.

This is the truth no one wants to hear. People talking about "Oh 3 billion in revenue,etc." But the reality is at least 6 teams are losing money. That includes Edmonton, a Canadian team. In the 1990's, all Canadian teams except Montreal and Toronto lost money. The NHL has small traction in parts of the US and not alot of the new immigrants to Canada introduce their kids to hockey, but to soccer/football. Especially not after the recent media blitz with concussions. People who don't mind throwing money in the Garbage will by and NHL team. Even the Marlins and the like in Baseball make money. Even the CBA, is causing contentions. Don Fehr is the head of the NHLPA now. They have stopped the BS and the new CBA will be a battle. People say one more lockout could crush the NHL. The NFL has also had lockouts as well prior to this year and even when it was number 2 people never said that. People are not saying the NBA will collapse either. The next 5 years will be very interesting.

This should be split into two sections.

MLS is unlikely to pass hockey in Canada.

MLS is quite likely to pass hockey in the US.

The MLS could pass Hockey in Canada.The violence concerns, cheapness of soccer compared to hockey, etc. are all part of it.

People look at this as fans of hockey. Start looking at this through the lens of a casual fan or a parent.

 

[Dalton]

More young Canadians are enrolling in English football than hockey. The risk of head injuries and the level of violence recently in hockey may accelerate this.

English football will overtake hockey in revenues eventually. It's the most popular sport in the world.

The NHL is so provincial. Canada winning a World Cup would dwarf the Stanley in impact even today. The thing is Canada doesn't expect to compete for it at all. When that perception changes hockey had better be ready. Bettman's NHL couldn't care less.

Globalization. The NHL doesn't get it.

 

[MayDay]

Oh, this thread is back again.

The answer is still no, of course not. Not for a very, very, very long time, if ever.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

This is the truth no one wants to hear. People talking about "Oh 3 billion in revenue,etc." But the reality is at least 6 teams are losing money. That includes Edmonton, a Canadian team. In the 1990's, all Canadian teams except Montreal and Toronto lost money. The NHL has small traction in parts of the US and not alot of the new immigrants to Canada introduce their kids to hockey, but to soccer/football. Especially not after the recent media blitz with concussions. People who don't mind throwing money in the Garbage will by and NHL team. Even the Marlins and the like in Baseball make money. Even the CBA, is causing contentions. Don Fehr is the head of the NHLPA now. They have stopped the BS and the new CBA will be a battle. People say one more lockout could crush the NHL. The NFL has also had lockouts as well prior to this year and even when it was number 2 people never said that. People are not saying the NBA will collapse either. The next 5 years will be very interesting.

I know several people that grew up in the NYC area that view hockey as fringe.

 

[BamBamCam*]

This should be split into two sections.

MLS is unlikely to pass hockey in Canada.

MLS is quite likely to pass hockey in the US.

And you base this on one US city.. Seattle? Seattle, the place that doesn't have a winter professional team, so what else is everyone going to do, that Seattle? Besides, Seattle is strange, it can actually put more people in the seats than the MLB, so I hardly think Seattle is a good city to use for a litmus.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

More young Canadians are enrolling in English football than hockey. The risk of head injuries and the level of violence recently in hockey may accelerate this.

English football will overtake hockey in revenues eventually. It's the most popular sport in the world.

The NHL is so provincial. Canada winning a World Cup would dwarf the Stanley in impact even today. The thing is Canada doesn't expect to compete for it at all. When that perception changes hockey had better be ready. Bettman's NHL couldn't care less.

Globalization. The NHL doesn't get it.

A ton of kids play soccer in the U.S., for the same reasons that you listed (mainly the lack of violence is a huge appeal to parents).

That doesn't mean that MLS is a more popular league in the U.S. At all.

Also, the NHL has to spread to the U.S. before they can even consider globalization.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Hockey is a cute, provincial game like hurling compared to soccer. It will never come close to soccer anywhere except Canada.

Really, intelligent analysts have modelled hockey operations and do not invest. When is the last time a corperate buyer approached hockey? Hockey teams are toys for the billionaires who don't mind losing twenty million a year.

The plain fact that the NHL's numbers don't reflect the marketplace suggests they are headed into a CBA with a big bag of BS, hoping nobody smells anything.

I'd say there is serious danger of collapse, if it weren't for those freindly billionaires.

Are you possibly referring to how in Europe, corporations own sports teams?

Because in America and Canada, rich people own sports teams. Not corporations. This extends to the MLB, NFL and NBA.

Just because something is different does not mean it is an inefficient way of operation, which is what is implied (heavily) in your post.

 

[IceAce]

^ Not to mention kids have been playing soccer en masse in the U.S. for over 30 years. And it hasn't translated into much of anything on a professional level, and it hasn't made much of an impact of pro football, MLB, or the NBA.We've been hearing about soccer's alleged "takeover" of the US sports scene for decades now, and it just hasnt happened. We hosted the World Cup 17 years ago this summer, and it still didnt make a dent. I'm not sure expansion of a "C" level soccer league in the US like MLS is going to change all that much? It's just no engrained in the culture here like say baseball or football. We tend to reject most things seen as overly "European" going back to our founding.

 

[TBL Hockey]

My varsity soccer playing daughter summed up the problem with the MSL getting more popular. While watching TV the other day I told my daughter a soccer game was on. Her response was “dad soccer is fun to play but it has to be the most boring sport in the world to watch." This was coming from a person that has played soccer since she was about 3 years old.

If you just go by sport participation then the most popular sports on TV should be bowling and fishing. There is no correlation between the amount of children playing a sport and its popularity on TV.

 

[billycanuck]

Anyone know of any MLS TV ratings? I can assume they are pretty low. However, attendance to start the season is positive.

Ten home games played, average attendance 21,046.

Only let down was San Jose's 10,525, but that is 100% capacity for them. They are building a new 18,000 stadium for next season.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The biggest problem that MLS has (one which the 4 major Sports League's don't have) is that it is in direct competition with the Premier League (sorry, Barclay's Premier League) for both fans and players. The only player of impact that MLS has 'stolen' in the sense of the word is Landon Donovan.

For MLS to overtake the NHL, two things have to occur;

The KHL becomes a legitimate threat to the NHL, and

The Premier League suddenly goes under for financial reasons.

I will say this, I quite enjoyed the World Cup, even the Vuvuzelas.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I know several people that grew up in the NYC area that view hockey as fringe.

Even worse IMO.

 

[TRASHCAT]

As for the immigrant argument, yes they come from soccer-loving countries and yes they love soccer. But what sports do their kids, who are born and raised in North America, play and watch?

Sure as hell isnt hockey.

Soccer is cheap and global

Hockey is expensive and regional

Soccer is played almost universally in grade schools. Hockey? Yeah in some world where ice rinks are cheap available, and commonplace.

The whole thing with the MLS being vastly inferior to the Euro-leagues. Hmmm Well apparently the rest of the world can appreciate the game without having the best league in front of them.

May not happen anytime soon. Although having the NBA and the NFL having a lock-out, might happen sooner. Soccer will eventually be more popular than hockey everywhere.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Oh, this thread is back again.

The answer is still no, of course not. Not for a very, very, very long time, if ever.

Stop it! The NHL is one lockout away from shutting down for good. What other league can say that?

 

[Evil Doctor]

The biggest problem that MLS has...yadda yadda yadda

The biggest problem the MLS has it that it's still soccer, the single most boring sport on the planet....the delusions of the soccer trolls will not change that...

 

[Melrose Munch]

A ton of kids play soccer in the U.S., for the same reasons that you listed (mainly the lack of violence is a huge appeal to parents).

That doesn't mean that MLS is a more popular league in the U.S. At all.

Also, the NHL has to spread to the U.S. before they can even consider globalization.

Also doesn't NHL is more popular either. If your market does not have an NHL team, hockey does not exist. Soccer does either way.