Will Kyle Clifford be re-signed or not because of this 2021 2nd round pick?

[Menzinger]

If management really wants him, i dont think theyd let the pick requirement stop them from signing him.

That said Given the uncertain cap situation I do suspect he would need to tale a paycyt at this point to stay with the team.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Clifford can skate well and im kind of surprised Keefe didnt try out Clifford-Tavares-Nylander. Clifford can play the Hyman role on that line and bring things that Tavares and Nylander do not bring. Kerfoot and Malgin do not suit that line at all but got long looks on that line. Id only resign Clifford to a 2 yr deal.

 

[ACC1224]

He’ll need to sign at a discount. The difference between a 2nd and 3rd won’t have an impact on whether he’s back or not.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

No idea why people keep circulating this crap around. It's like people look at the top 10 and assume the entire class is the same...

Worst case at this point, it's going to be another 2019. Top end Finn, strong USA class, a few good Swedes, Finns and Russians to round out some depth but mostly dominated by a higher end CHL class. Third straight year there is a top 15 goalie prospect (Wallstadt). Not a whole lot at the very top but in terms of value of where the Leafs should be picking (late in rounds), 2021 is likely better than 2020.

Ontario sucks at 2021 draft. Ontario drives da boat. It always has and it always will. You are clearly not at da grass roots level.
Much like 2020 where Ontario is extremely strong.
Yes Europe and USA may give you a few good guys here and there but they don't drive da boat.

 

[Mess]

Fun fact that perhaps not many Leaf fans might know, just the real diehard ones.

Kyle Dubas began his NHL professional career as a NHL player agent, and his 1st client was none other than Kyle Clifford.

Player agent

Dubas was the youngest agent ever certified by the National Hockey League Players Association. He worked with Uptown Sports Management and represented Kyle Clifford.

So he first represented Kyle Clifford as his player agent, then he acquired Kyle Clifford in trade, and now he is trying to re-sign Clifford while sitting on the other side of the desk as NHL GM.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Kyle Clifford is not washed or offers nothing more than some knuckles here and there. The guy is in shape,gets around good,still young and is worth $1,250,000 if Engvall is worth that.
I would take Clifford every day @ same money as Engvall if it came down to that.
So to me he is more a need than Engvall.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

If we're talking about Clifford at 1-1.5 per, it's tolerable, but if we're talking about Clifford on a 2.5+ mil contract with term and trade protection, Dubas is going to lose a lot of supporters.

We can't afford another unforced mistake like Martin, Lou doesn't have the cap space to bail us out again.

He won’t get in the $2,000,000 range from any team i would think.The $1,500,000 with $800,000 signing bonus every july could do the trick for both sides maybe. He is more a need than many of the bottom 6 options. I would take him and one more just like him in bottom 6 actually.
He brings stuff we need. Nuff said on that because everyone likes him if we get a great contract for the team. I like his game.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He won’t get in the $2,000,000 range from any team i would think.The $1,500,000 with $800,000 signing bonus every july could do the trick for both sides maybe. He is more a need than many of the bottom 6 options. I would take him and one more just like him in bottom 6 actually.
He brings stuff we need. Nuff said on that because everyone likes him if we get a great contract for the team. I like his game.

We are gonna have like 4.5M CAP room left in AAV once negotiations around next year are done. and Mik and Dermy will get 1 year deals likely under 2M and then Clifford at like 1M ... if we trade AJ then frees up some more room. Likely Spezza comes back too. it is gonna be really tight for 2020/21 season assuming it gets played at all. unless there is a cure or vaccine i believe we will not have NHL hocky in 2020/21.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

We are gonna have like 4.5M CAP room left in AAV once negotiations around next year are done. and Mik and Dermy will get 1 year deals likely under 2M and then Clifford at like 1M ... if we trade AJ then frees up some more room. Likely Spezza comes back too. it is gonna be really tight for 2020/21 season assuming it gets played at all. unless there is a cure or vaccine i believe we will not have NHL hocky in 2020/21.

Well they still have to have a team on paper right. They will beed to do it at a flat cap likely also. Still have to be ready with players signed.
I however do think people are displaying a false sense of security and safeness at this point. I personally believe zeros for new cases across the country should have been the goal before Lessening restrictions.
I blame the knob premier of Quebec for starting all this opening up. The feds should have shut him down instantly. Sending kids back to school in May was a f****** joke.
What we are seeing from my point of view anyways is that a health and National Security decision is being made as a financial decision.
I hope this virus gets a vaccine but not sure i as a person that takes this really seriously and keeping isolated still wants one lol. I had a H1N1 shot back in the day trying to stay safe and it almost killed me. It was bad how sick i was from it lol.
So a vaccine for me likely something i will avoid

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Ontario sucks at 2021 draft. Ontario drives da boat. It always has and it always will. You are clearly not at da grass roots level.
Much like 2020 where Ontario is extremely strong.
Yes Europe and USA may give you a few good guys here and there but they don't drive da boat.

Ontario sucks at the top end of the 2021 draft right now. 2021 does not have the high end 2020 has in general. What I am saying is you can't judge the entire class based on the top 10-15 or one region. Who cares if there is no Rossi, Drysdale, Byfield, Perfetti in 2021 when the Leafs should not be drafting in the top 10 in either year anyways. We care more about what's out there in the 20's and 30's, or later, and it is looking better in 2021 than in 2020 right now.

People from grass roots Ontario may think that they drive the boat, but the NHL disagrees. Does explain a lot about the many misconceptions though...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kyle Clifford is not washed or offers nothing more than some knuckles here and there. The guy is in shape,gets around good,still young and is worth $1,250,000 if Engvall is worth that.
I would take Clifford every day @ same money as Engvall if it came down to that.
So to me he is more a need than Engvall.

Engvall has more upside (i.e. can be more than a 4th liner) and is a weapon on the PK. He's also younger with an upward trajectory. The best hope for Clifford's next deal is that he does not fall off of a 'cliff' (pun intended) over the course of his contract.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Engvall has more upside (i.e. can be more than a 4th liner) and is a weapon on the PK. He's also younger with an upward trajectory. The best hope for Clifford's next deal is that he does not fall off of a 'cliff' (pun intended) over the course of his contract.

Misconception, he’s been nothing we need.39% faceoffs in a defensive role isn’t what i want to be the perceived notion of acceptable one little bit. He croaked 30 games ago and doesn’t hit

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Ontario sucks at the top end of the 2021 draft right now. 2021 does not have the high end 2020 has in general. What I am saying is you can't judge the entire class based on the top 10-15 or one region. Who cares if there is no Rossi, Drysdale, Byfield, Perfetti in 2021 when the Leafs should not be drafting in the top 10 in either year anyways. We care more about what's out there in the 20's and 30's, or later, and it is looking better in 2021 than in 2020 right now.

People from grass roots Ontario may think that they drive the boat, but the NHL disagrees. Does explain a lot about the many misconceptions though...

Yeah I guess I really don't care about what happens globally with players as I focus my attention on G/O/Marlies and Leafs. Over past 40 years Ontario has led in players developed for NHL. But I am biased as played for Marlboros since I could p*ss straight. and Dubie has done really well with Sandin and now Robertson for sure. and I like what he has done with Muzzy and Cliff. Hopefully this virus and CAP does not slow us down.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Well they still have to have a team on paper right. They will beed to do it at a flat cap likely also. Still have to be ready with players signed.
I however do think people are displaying a false sense of security and safeness at this point. I personally believe zeros for new cases across the country should have been the goal before Lessening restrictions.
I blame the knob premier of Quebec for starting all this opening up. The feds should have shut him down instantly. Sending kids back to school in May was a f****** joke.
What we are seeing from my point of view anyways is that a health and National Security decision is being made as a financial decision.
I hope this virus gets a vaccine but not sure i as a person that takes this really seriously and keeping isolated still wants one lol. I had a H1N1 shot back in the day trying to stay safe and it almost killed me. It was bad how sick i was from it lol.
So a vaccine for me likely something i will avoid

Me too ... I took d*mn flu shot this year and was sick after it ... and that cough lasted like forever ... went to my doc and he says yeah this year it was not effective but that is rare apparently

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yeah I guess I really don't care about what happens globally with players as I focus my attention on G/O/Marlies and Leafs. Over past 40 years Ontario has led in players developed for NHL. But I am biased as played for Marlboros since I could p*ss straight. and Dubie has done really well with Sandin and now Robertson for sure. and I like what he has done with Muzzy and Cliff. Hopefully this virus and CAP does not slow us down.

Yeah I figured it must have been a long stretch ago, because in the past ~10 years, it has not been nearly as Canadian/Ontario dominant. Still a major factor, but not like it was 30/40 years ago. USA has definitely taken a major jump forward, and even Sweden/Russia/Finland/etc. have been contributing a lot in terms of top players, etc. The main difference with the European countries is that unless they are special players, they usually decide to just stay home. Whereas if you are Canadian/American, the NHL/AHL is your home turf and you are more likely willing to stick around even as a journeyman 4th liner than a European.

 

[Funk21]

If we're talking about Clifford at 1-1.5 per, it's tolerable, but if we're talking about Clifford on a 2.5+ mil contract with term and trade protection, Dubas is going to lose a lot of supporters.

We can't afford another unforced mistake like Martin, Lou doesn't have the cap space to bail us out again.

Clifford is gonna get nowhere near 2.5 IMO. Unless he signs at 1-1.25 for a couple of years I have zero interest in giving over another second round pick. We have bleed picks the past few years getting rid of Marleau, adding Turtlneck for another first round bounce, and Boyle just to get in. We need every high end pick we can keep because of our cap situation and the roster rollover that will occur as contracts expire.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Just like to add that it will be clearer what Clifford can do in a grinding 5 game series against a heavy Columbus team. He’s not going to take any prisoners in a short physical series.

 

[TopCheese]

I like Clifford but cap space is more valuable. We shouldn’t be spending more than 3 mil total on our 4th line. Keep bringing in the cheap reclamation projects and youngsters for those spots. the Spezza gauthier Clifford line was awful this year

 

[kb]

Just like to add that it will be clearer what Clifford can do in a grinding 5 game series against a heavy Columbus team. He’s not going to take any prisoners in a short physical series.

Exactly. I keep seeing that the "physicality' of Columbus is going to give the Leafs fits. But in reality, their grit is small, and they really don't have much. They have no answer for Clifford, and Muzzin lowers the boom regularly. I see little to no advantage for Columbus in that department. But that's just me....I can't see Foligno being a jackass with Clifford around.

And the Leafs have it all over Columbus in the firepower department. I think the only way the Leafs lose is if Freddy bombs out.

 

[Menzinger]

Given cap uncertainty, Clifford may find a hard time getting a raise from any other team. If the Leafs do want him back, hed likely be cheap

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Exactly. I keep seeing that the "physicality' of Columbus is going to give the Leafs fits. But in reality, their grit is small, and they really don't have much. They have no answer for Clifford, and Muzzin lowers the boom regularly. I see little to no advantage for Columbus in that department. But that's just me....I can't see Foligno being a jackass with Clifford around.

And the Leafs have it all over Columbus in the firepower department. I think the only way the Leafs lose is if Freddy bombs out.

Fully pickin up what you are saying. Clifford is mean as cat sH!t when its on the line. Foligno might get targeted if I’m Keefe.

 

[Kiwi]

Given cap uncertainty, Clifford may find a hard time getting a raise from any other team. If the Leafs do want him back, hed likely be cheap

He's going to have to be cheap to justify us keeping him, the pick is one thing but paying good money to a 4th liner with our cap structure makes very little sense

 

[Wafflewhipper]

He's going to have to be cheap to justify us keeping him, the pick is one thing but paying good money to a 4th liner with our cap structure makes very little sense

I was thinking Engvall money front loaded and for a couple or three years

 

[Phion Keneuf]

3rd round pick 2021 + Clifford @ a mil
Vs
2nd round pick 2021

Meh. I’m indifferent. As long as it’s for about a mil a year. Maybe 1.5

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The reason You don't re sign him can't be because of a 2nd round pick