Will Kyle Clifford be re-signed or not because of this 2021 2nd round pick?

[LeafsNation75]

When Kyle Dubas made the trade for Jack Campbell and Kyle Clifford there was this 2nd round pick in 2021 to the Kings which was based on these conditions.

2021 conditional 3rd round pick* (TOR)
*Conditions: The 2021 3rd round pick upgrades to a 2nd round pick if either Kyle Clifford re-signs with Toronto OR if the Leafs make the 2019-20 playoffs and Jack Campbell wins 6 regular season games.

Since Campbell only ended up with 3 wins it won't matter if Toronto makes the playoffs in 2020, assuming they win their play in series against Columbus.

So the question is will Kyle Clifford be re-signed because if that happens it's the last condition on the Kings getting a 2nd round pick in 2021.

2021 NHL Entry Draft - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

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[Deebo]

Instead of a 3rd, not an additonal pick.

 

[Primary Assist]

The impending expansion draft hurts his value - a one-year deal isn't a great return for the 2nd round pick, and I can't imagine the Leafs will want to protect his rights when Seattle enters the league. Unfortunately I don't think he's worth it, and I can't wait to watch HF Leafs lose their mind when we use the 2nd round pick on a 5'9" overage defenseman.

Edit: Never mind - I didn't see the post above, so my argument is about as useful as a Melnyk IOU

 

[Buds17]

Such a condition is in a trade because it can be helpful to both teams. I don't think the Leafs will be dissuaded from a re-signing due to this. However, I'd also say that Campbell being in the trade was a sign that a new contract for Clifford wasn't going to be a given.

I don't think Dubas acquires Clifford as a pending UFA without having some interest in re-signing him. The trade doesn't stop being a benefit to the Leafs if Clifford ultimately walks though.

 

[rojac]

I really doubt that the difference between a 2nd and a 3rd will have a big influence on whether or not they re-sign Clifford. If Dubas thinks Clifford can help the team at a contract price he's willing to pay, then Dubas will most likely resign him.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If we're talking about Clifford at 1-1.5 per, it's tolerable, but if we're talking about Clifford on a 2.5+ mil contract with term and trade protection, Dubas is going to lose a lot of supporters.

We can't afford another unforced mistake like Martin, Lou doesn't have the cap space to bail us out again.

 

[Stephen]

It's not a major part of the equation for the Leafs going forward, but we need more players with cup pedigree playing higher in the standings not necessarily Kyle Clifford on the 4th line. We should also have a development system capable of producing players who have the disposition to grow into Clifford type players. So that would be ultra competitive guys who are difficult to play against and have that real burning desire to go through a wall in the playoffs. It's not an accident Boston, St. Louis and Los Angeles always seem to find these guys.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If we're talking about Clifford at 1-1.5 per, it's tolerable, but if we're talking about Clifford on a 2.5+ mil contract with term and trade protection, Dubas is going to lose a lot of supporters.

We can't afford another unforced mistake like Martin, Lou doesn't have the cap space to bail us out again.

Clifford's current contract is $1.6 AAV although the Kings retained $800,000 of it in the trade. So does he re-sign for that amount or can Dubas afford to give him $1.7 or $1.8 so he signs for a little more.

Kyle Clifford - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[hotpaws]

he's not worth the 30 spots it would cost us to re sign him

 

[I am Canadian]

He's also not worth a dime over minimum salary. He shouldn't get more than 8 minutes a game and there's much better places to use that salary.

 

[TML1967]

Weird question, but is is a 're-signing' if its after Free Agency begins?
Like, hypothetically, Clifford signs a 1m deal the day after he becomes a free agent and looks at the market. Would we still need to send the pick, or would he considered a Free Agent signing?

 

[IrishInOntario]

He's also not worth a dime over minimum salary. He shouldn't get more than 8 minutes a game and there's much better places to use that salary.

I don't know that I agree with that.

This team doesn't have a skill problem, at times it has an attitude, accountability, and character problem. I've long stated that the best teams in the league have the right combination of skilled talent and character guys that play the system well. On nights when Matthews, Marner and Tavares just seem to be going through the motions, if you have 3 or 4 guys like Clifford on the team between your forward group and your defense core, you play them a few extra minutes and hope they can give you some energy to wake the boys up.

Boston steals Toronto's soul every year not only because they have talent like the "perfection" line, but because they have a foundation of blue collar, lunch pale types, that show up every night. Their contribution is not always seen on the scoreboard, but their effort level can keep you in games until your elite players can turn it around.

 

[Cor]

It won’t factor in at all.

It simply comes down to what Clifford is willing to accept. Leafs can really only, and probably should only go to an AAV of say 1.25M for how ever many of years (say 3, front loaded?).

Clifford could get more in free agency, but he seems pretty interested in staying in Toronto for a while.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Some have said, find a Clifford like player.

Who is available who fills this spot?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't know that I agree with that.

This team doesn't have a skill problem, at times it has an attitude, accountability, and character problem. I've long stated that the best teams in the league have the right combination of skilled talent and character guys that play the system well. On nights when Matthews, Marner and Tavares just seem to be going through the motions, if you have 3 or 4 guys like Clifford on the team between your forward group and your defense core, you play them a few extra minutes and hope they can give you some energy to wake the boys up.

Boston steals Toronto's soul every year not only because they have talent like the "perfection" line, but because they have a foundation of blue collar, lunch pale types, that show up every night. Their contribution is not always seen on the scoreboard, but their effort level can keep you in games until your elite players can turn it around.

Boston barely scrapes by the Leafs every year. They have come within one game of losing both years, and if it was not for guys like Gardiner folding up like a cheap suit (I mean he was a -8 over the two Game 7 games, and generally had more crap games than good games in the playoffs) or Kadri getting suspended BOTH times. It really kills matchups when one of your top 4 defensemen is an absolute liability and one of your matchup centers is on the sidelines for most of both series. Then it does not help when our top guys struggled some games too. Our top guys need to be top guys all of the time, not just half the time.

A guy like Clifford is not the difference maker, just like Boston's 4th liners are not the reason why they win outside of what they bring to the PK. Everyone shows up every night, not just their energy guys. That's what our problem is. We can piss around with adding guys like Clifford but ultimately it is up to Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander/Rielly/Andersen/etc. to show up every night to help us win. And when it comes to secondary guys, it should be guys like Kerfoot, Kapanen, Hyman, Mikheyev, etc. who can play smart, hard-working hockey, provide secondary offense, and be strong in their own end... Like they've been doing much of the year. That's what guys like DeBrusk and Coyle do for Boston. A guy like Clifford, like the rest of our 4th line, will probably only play like 8 minutes a night and it will likely not be a very eventful 8 minutes of hockey either, and it is not like any of them provide any kind of value to the PK either.

So as I have been saying for a long time, these perceived issues are far down the list of real issues with this team. Clifford is not a guy who really has a spot with this team next year, especially when it comes to his projected contract and the extra round we'd have to give up to keep him. Engvall, Spezza, Barabanov, Korshkov, Robertson, Brooks already here, and there are UFA's out there that could either be a Marlie contributor or provide very similar things to Clifford for a far cheaper price. Korshkov already mostly does...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Some have said, find a Clifford like player.

Who is available who fills this spot?

Korshkov. I expect someone like Brendan Perlini to be non-tendered, and he is a local kid who could be looking for a chance to redeem himself. He's a big, physical body and while his skill does not match his draft position, he can still be a solid bottom 6 option who could really turn into a higher end contributor. I would bring him in to compete with Korshkov/Barabanov and otherwise let him rehab his value a bit on the Marlies. If he puts in the work, he would still only be 25 at the start of next year and plays the type of physical game people are obsessed with. We do have prospects coming up, but there is still room for him to enter that older prospect rotation.

Jimmy Vesey. Riley Sheahan. Josh Leivo. Tyler Pitlick. Derek Grant. Wayne Simmonds. Corey Perry. Tomas Nosek. Nate Thompson. Trevor Lewis. Brad Richardson. Cody Eakin. Zemgus Girgensens. Johan Larsson. Brian Boyle. Patrick Maroon.

Just some guys who are likely to be cheaper 3rd or 4th line options if we don't want to give Korshkov a good chance of making the roster next year.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Boston barely scrapes by the Leafs every year. They have come within one game of losing both years, and if it was not for guys like Gardiner folding up like a cheap suit (I mean he was a -8 over the two Game 7 games, and generally had more crap games than good games in the playoffs) or Kadri getting suspended BOTH times. It really kills matchups when one of your top 4 defensemen is an absolute liability and one of your matchup centers is on the sidelines for most of both series. Then it does not help when our top guys struggled some games too. Our top guys need to be top guys all of the time, not just half the time.

I would add that last year in Game 6 with the Leafs up 3-2 in the series and winning 1-0 in the 1st period, off the faceoff during a penalty kill Andersen allowed a bad goal. Plus Hyman had taken that faceoff and played with a torn ACL. I don't know if that was a factor in him losing the draw and why Babcock had him taking the faceoff to start with. If they were able to kill off that penalty who knows what happens during the remainder of that game.

 

[I am Canadian]

I don't know that I agree with that.

This team doesn't have a skill problem, at times it has an attitude, accountability, and character problem. I've long stated that the best teams in the league have the right combination of skilled talent and character guys that play the system well. On nights when Matthews, Marner and Tavares just seem to be going through the motions, if you have 3 or 4 guys like Clifford on the team between your forward group and your defense core, you play them a few extra minutes and hope they can give you some energy to wake the boys up.

Boston steals Toronto's soul every year not only because they have talent like the "perfection" line, but because they have a foundation of blue collar, lunch pale types, that show up every night. Their contribution is not always seen on the scoreboard, but their effort level can keep you in games until your elite players can turn it around.

I suppose people can have this mindset but the harsh reality is guys like Kerfoot and Johnsson need to be sacrificed for 1m-1.2M players for this to work. We can't have a 10M+ third line (Johnsson, Kerfoot, Kapanen) AND overpay for 4th liners AND have good defense.

 

[LeafGrief]

I just don't see him being worth the cap hit. Having a player like him or Martin on the 4th line has its value, but we need to pinch every penny to spend on defense, centre depth, and quality wing depth before we spend on the 4th liners. If we didn't have three $11m players, we'd probably keep him.

If we're going to spend a little extra for a player who brings his fiestiness, physicality, leadership, and cup pedigree, he needs to fit in with the team's higher priority needs somewhere else. Jake Muzzin, for example, does all of those things while being one of our best defensemen. If Clifford could play middle six wing we'd move someone like Johnsson to keep him, but on the fourth line he's just not important enough to be in the plans.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When Kyle Dubas made the trade for Jack Campbell and Kyle Clifford there was this 2nd round pick in 2021 to the Kings which was based on these conditions.

Since Campbell only ended up with 3 wins it won't matter if Toronto makes the playoffs in 2020, assuming they win their play in series against Columbus.

So the question is will Kyle Clifford be re-signed because if that happens it's the last condition on the Kings getting a 2nd round pick in 2021.

2021 NHL Entry Draft - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

2021 is da worst draft year ever. It will rival 1999 draft for worst of all time. Contending teams will be unloading 2021 picks like crazy. Even a 1st rounder gets you very little.

 

[rojac]

he's not worth the 30 spots it would cost us to re sign him

31 spots.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Kings (conditional second round pick if Kyle Clifford re-signs with Maple Leafs or if Maple Leafs qualify for 2020 playoffs and Campbell wins 6 regular season games
PICK WOULD NOT TRANSFER BECAUSE CLIFFORD HAS NOT RE-SIGNED WITH MAPLE LEAFS AND MAPLE LEAFS HAVE NOT QUALIFIED FOR 2020 PLAYOFFS AND CAMPBELL HAS NOT WON 6 REGULAR SEASON GAMES
Traded • Jack Campbell • Kyle Clifford to Maple Leafs for • Trevor Moore • 2020 third round pick (?-?) • 2021 conditional round round pick (second round if Clifford re-signs with Maple Leafs or if Maple Leafs qualify for 2020 playoffs and Campbell wins 6 regular season games) (?-?) on 2020-02-05

 

[SeaOfBlue]

2021 is da worst draft year ever. It will rival 1999 draft for worst of all time. Contending teams will be unloading 2021 picks like crazy. Even a 1st rounder gets you very little.

No idea why people keep circulating this crap around. It's like people look at the top 10 and assume the entire class is the same...

Worst case at this point, it's going to be another 2019. Top end Finn, strong USA class, a few good Swedes, Finns and Russians to round out some depth but mostly dominated by a higher end CHL class. Third straight year there is a top 15 goalie prospect (Wallstadt). Not a whole lot at the very top but in terms of value of where the Leafs should be picking (late in rounds), 2021 is likely better than 2020.

 

[Jozay]

I dont think it will prevent the Leafs from re-signing him. The cap probably will though.

The value of a 2nd round, I believe the Leafs will have 50 overall vs wherever they pick in the third round may not be a significant difference.

Theres plenty of people who have researched it. The difference between 50th overall vs lets says 80th overall may not be that big. Its been a while since ive checked it out and im too lazy to see if it really is a big difference or not lol.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I dont think it will prevent the Leafs from re-signing him. The cap probably will though.

The value of a 2nd round, I believe the Leafs will have 50 overall vs wherever they pick in the third round may not be a significant difference.

Theres plenty of people who have researched it. The difference between 50th overall vs lets says 80th overall may not be that big. Its been a while since ive checked it out and im too lazy to see if it really is a big difference or not lol.

That's assuming we actually make the pick. At the deadline, a 2nd definitely has more value than a 3rd even if they likely get you the same tier of prospect.

A 2nd+ has been able to get a #4/5 defensemen pretty reliably every deadline. If we're limping into the playoffs with injuries to the D again, it's nice to have insurance.