Speculation: Will Jokiharju start the year in Rockford?

[BK]

Except Joki was a good for a short time and then was complete ass by the end of his Hawks run...

Well this is just a lie.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Sessions with Stan: Offseason Building, Pt. 2

Bowman is leaving Jokiharju out of this response:

"I think our defense is pretty well set at this point. We have eight guys who all have NHL experience. (Carl) Dahlstrom has played the least of those guys but he's the youngest. But the top six guys all have several hundred games under their belt, so we're not going into next season hoping a guy can play or make it in the league. Now, it's going to be a matter of finding the right combinations of those guys. But I feel much more comfortable that when we go into a game on the road against a tough opponent and you don't get to choose the matchup. We have a lot more options for our coaches to put on the ice and feel like they can get this done.

Last year, there was probably a smaller group of guys that you trust and then if those guys just got off the ice after a long shift, the coach is like, 'I don't know how this is going to go. Who do I really trust to be able to buckle down and match up against the best players on the other team?' So we have more options from that perspective."

Defenders under contract by age

1. Keith
2. Seabrook
3. de Haan
4. Gustafsson
5. Murphy
6. Koekkoek
7. Maatta
8. Dahlstrom

9. Jokiharju

Sounds like Joker isn't even going to be given a chance to make it. What a joke if that's the case.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

De Haan is very doubtful for start of the season, so that is Joker's opening to show what he can do. 4K and Dahlstrom are not going to keep Joker out of the lineup if the kid smokes them in camp which he should be doing at this point..

I understand the concept of what you're saying, but you don't even need to squint while reading these tealeaves to see that Bowman is excluding Jokiharju in this response.

I'm not saying that absolutely means Jokiharju is staying in Rockford, I'm just saying the GM does not seem to be including him in a response where he says the defense is set.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Well this is just a lie.

So is saying Dahlstrom was ass. That's my point.

 

[BK]

So is saying Dahlstrom was ass. That's my point.

We both know that wasn't your point.

 

[Hawkaholic]

So is saying Dahlstrom was ass. That's my point.

Why was he scratched for 10 of the last 20 games then? He was playing too good they had to scratch him to get a better lottery ticket?

 

[Kevin Musto]

Why was he scratched for 10 of the last 20 games then? He was playing too good they had to scratch him to get a better lottery ticket?

Stan knows he's better which is why he's on the roster and not Jokiharju for next season

I think our defense is pretty well set at this point. We have eight guys who all have NHL experience. (Carl) Dahlstrom has played the least of those guys but he's the youngest. But the top six guys all have several hundred games under their belt, so we're not going into next season hoping a guy can play or make it in the league. Now, it's going to be a matter of finding the right combinations of those guys. But I feel much more comfortable that when we go into a game on the road against a tough opponent and you don't get to choose the matchup. We have a lot more options for our coaches to put on the ice and feel like they can get this done.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I understand the concept of what you're saying, but you don't even need to squint while reading these tealeaves to see that Bowman is excluding Jokiharju in this response.

I'm not saying that absolutely means Jokiharju is staying in Rockford, I'm just saying the GM does not seem to be including him in a response where he says the defense is set.

I think it's dangerous to read too much into what Stan or any GM says publicly (a general statement, not just directed at you). 4K and Dahlstrom are 6th or 7th Dman who won't stand in the way if Joker is really ready. Maybe Stan wants to light a fire under Joker, maybe he wants to lower expectations for him so he doesn't press. It doesn't really matter.

I suspect Joker will have the opportunity to play his way on to the team out of camp, especially if De Haan is out to start the year. Competition is a good thing and the Hawks are in a position where they don't have to count on Joker this year, while also having a spot for him if he's ready. I think that's a good position to be in.

 

[BK]

I think it's dangerous to read too much into what Stan or any GM says publicly (a general statement, not just directed at you). 4K and Dahlstrom are 6th or 7th Dman who won't stand in the way if Joker is really ready. Maybe Stan wants to light a fire under Joker, maybe he wants to lower expectations for him so he doesn't press. It doesn't really matter.

I suspect Joker will have the opportunity to play his way on to the team out of camp, especially if De Haan is out to start the year. Competition is a good thing and the Hawks are in a position where they don't have to count on Joker this year, while also having a spot for him if he's ready. I think that's a good position to be in.

This.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Stan knows he's better which is why he's on the roster and not Jokiharju for next season

Or he knows he'll be the guy sitting on the bench every game and would rather Joker get AHL time than being the resident bum.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Or he knows he'll be the guy sitting on the bench every game and would rather Joker get AHL time than being the resident bum.

Because Joki can't beat the guys on the roster. Not hard to understand. If he was as good as you think he is, he wouldn't be relegated to a bench role. But guess what? He's not as good as you think, and therefore will be in Rockford.

 

[AmericanDream]

I understand the concept of what you're saying, but you don't even need to squint while reading these tealeaves to see that Bowman is excluding Jokiharju in this response.

I'm not saying that absolutely means Jokiharju is staying in Rockford, I'm just saying the GM does not seem to be including him in a response where he says the defense is set.

he has 8 NHL contracts right now, doesn't need to say Joker or Boqvist honestly- it is up to them to earn it. I think most of us realize than names like 4K and Dahlstrom are not going to hold him back if he shows up in camp as a WOW player..if he shows up and is decent to so so, then he likely goes to Rockford so we don't lose one of 4K or Dahl for nothing.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Because Joki can't beat the guys on the roster. Not hard to understand. If he was as good as you think he is, he wouldn't be relegated to a bench role. But guess what? He's not as good as you think, and therefore will be in Rockford.

He is better than Seabrook, Dahlstrom, Koekkoek, and quite possible he will be better than Maatta. He could absolutely beat those guys on the roster, I mean, he was better than 3/4 last year ..LOL

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I think it's dangerous to read too much into what Stan or any GM says publicly (a general statement, not just directed at you). 4K and Dahlstrom are 6th or 7th Dman who won't stand in the way if Joker is really ready. Maybe Stan wants to light a fire under Joker, maybe he wants to lower expectations for him so he doesn't press. It doesn't really matter.

I suspect Joker will have the opportunity to play his way on to the team out of camp, especially if De Haan is out to start the year. Competition is a good thing and the Hawks are in a position where they don't have to count on Joker this year, while also having a spot for him if he's ready. I think that's a good position to be in.

Definitely agree.

That's why I'm not saying this comment absolutely means Jokiharju won't be on the roster, but I am saying it's pretty clear he's leaving Jokiharju out of this response.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

he has 8 NHL contracts right now, doesn't need to say Joker or Boqvist honestly- it is up to them to earn it. I think most of us realize than names like 4K and Dahlstrom are not going to hold him back if he shows up in camp as a WOW player..if he shows up and is decent to so so, then he likely goes to Rockford so we don't lose one of 4K or Dahl for nothing.

Right. Again, not trying to say this is confirmation Jokiharju is already off the roster, just pointing out that it's interesting to me that he so transparently left him out of this response.

 

[ClydeLee]

People focus too much on blatant... better than. That's not what will or ever mixes up a group of the roster making it or not. It's not pure D ability. There also side elements involved.

Was joker last year in his play at LD better than Dahlstrom or KK, no. His inexperience there was bad he took several bad angles against rushes and was looking to struggle reaching across his left some plays. If he has to slot there to be an extra guy in with CDH out he might not overtake them.

If Gus gets slotted best at RD again because JC lines him up Keith or Maatta(which i think could be a good pairing) that leaves Joker needing to earn playing LD because he isn't slotting in over Seabrook despite being better than him.

 

[AmericanDream]

Right. Again, not trying to say this is confirmation Jokiharju is already off the roster, just pointing out that it's interesting to me that he so transparently left him out of this response.

I know you are not, and I think it is a great catch as well. Bowman understands what he has here and with Joker there still are question marks. I have zero problems with anything he is saying here nor would I hold him to any of it. It is why we have camp to begin with so kids like Boqvist or Joker can stand out and earn that spot. Like some others have said, I look at it as a wake up call to Joker as well - things are changing, better talent has been brought in, if you want to make this team and stay up here, then f***ING EARN IT - consistently..

 

[Kevin Musto]

He is better than Seabrook, Dahlstrom, Koekkoek, and quite possible he will be better than Maatta. He could absolutely beat those guys on the roster, I mean, he was better than 3/4 last year ..LOL

So why is he in Rockford?

 

[BobbyJet]

Let me try again: For argument sake let's say he is already better than guys like K4 and Dahlstrom even at the tender age of 20 years. IMO, that just shows how weak Hawk's defense is.

But does it automatically mean that Joker shouldn't be allowed to develop in the AHL? A league where he will get exposed to top-2 minutes and where he will play in literally all situations. Anyone who objectively watched him play last season could see he wasn't really NHL ready - could see that he can be so much better with a little seasoning and maturing.

Again I ask: If Joker doesn't show that much of an improvement in September/October what is best for Joker career-wise? Being the top Dman in the AHL playing top pairing minutes or quite a bit of a lesser role in Chicago?

 

[Hawkaholic]

So why is he in Rockford?

Because they thought it was better for his development to be getting top minutes in the AHL than 3rd pairing mins in the NHL. Did you not pay attention when they sent him down?

My problem is that the comments they are making seem like they will just put him in the AHL regardless of how he plays, even if he is better than the likes of those that I have mentioned.

 

[LordKOTL]

I think big part is how many here ignore the dip in Jokiharju's play and demand him to be on the roster yet **** on Dahlstrom for the same reasons and want him off the team. It gets me quite frustrated at least, I often feel like objectivity is thrown off the table when it comes to Joki because of his potential ceiling when I would argue Dahlstrom's performance last year was more impressive (he did stick on the defacto shutdown pair afterall).

I get that Jokiharju's potential is high, but unless he improved on his physical play and assertiveness I dont see how he should be penciled in especially because we cant shelter him (Seabrook). I watched him both at the WJC and WHC and i didnt think he improved on those (at the WHC specifically i thought he wasnt one of their better defenders). Hope to see at training camp that he did indeed improve but i have my doubts until i see it.

And to be clear, before the usual suspects say anything, Im not comparing Jokiharju and Dahlstrom (whose ceiling is clearly much lower), but saying Joki at this point is still a project and should be treated as such.

I would say prospect over project--splitting hairs I know but Joker != Beach. He is after all still 20 years old.

I agree with what some are saying--The D roster looks solidly filled by journeymen/vets in a bid to save Stan's hide--and all indications are, unlike in Portland, Joker was not topped out in Rockford. If he spends the year in Rockford that's fine. Even if KK and Dahlstrom are just 6-7 guys, that's the role Joker would be expexted to play for the 'hawks and would be getting pittances of icetime for development vs. getting top-2 time in Rockford.

In fact, between Joker, Boqvist, Mitchell, and Beaudin if they all sit this year it can help automatically protect them in expansion. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Because they thought it was better for his development to be getting top minutes in the AHL than 3rd pairing mins in the NHL. Did you not pay attention when they sent him down?

But why would he only get 3rd pairing minutes in the NHL? Isn't he better than everyone else on the roster? Oh wait! He's not.

 

[Hawkaholic]

But why would he only get 3rd pairing minutes in the NHL? Isn't he better than everyone else on the roster? Oh wait! He's not.

When did I say that? He was our 4th best Dman last year, and would be 6th behind our 2 new additions this year.

 

[Kevin Musto]

When did I say that? He was our 4th best Dman last year, and would be 6th behind our 2 new additions this year.

Why would our 4th best defender only get bottom pairing minutes? Does it have something to with him not actually being a top 4 defender?

 

[Hawkaholic]

Why would our 4th best defender only get bottom pairing minutes? Does it have something to with him not actually being a top 4 defender?

Because JC was wrong, and thought Seabrook was better - LOL ...thats how.