Will habs ever be successful if they keep Price/Weber?

[mariolemieux66]

Can you imagine playing the J
Left in the playoffs? Not the slightest chance to win.
Blow it all up and rebuild. It is the only way to go.

 

[pepperMonkey]

Serious question. If we don't get Tavares or some fantasy result we're looking at another year without a top C with Price and Weber getting older into their long term contracts. Eventually, if it continues we either A) Go nowhere and then Price is untradeable resulting in extra years of misery B) Only find someone years down the road when Weber/Price are out of their prime.

I realize guys like Lundqvist and Rinne are good late into their careers but it's a big cap for Price, Weber and who knows if we keep pacioretty.

Seems like mediocrity with a high cap hit...

A bit part of me thinks if we don't get Tavares or some equivalent to tear it down. Sort of like Toronto did by trading Kessel. We need to be good enough to get good picks and Price and company won't allow it. If they do...we're even more screwed because we have 10.5 mil tied to a guy who isn't a game changer.

Of course we can. Price and Weber is not the problem. Sure, their contracts/age doesn't make it easy but the reason we won't be successful is not because of them. MB. The problem has always been MB. We could be a team with in prime Crosby, Price and Suban and we could still be toiling the wildcard spot with MB in charge of filing the roster.

 

[PecnoTrunk]

We don't have the players now to win now

In five years we might have the proper forwards but then Weber and price will be 35 and basically finished

It all needs to come together in one window frame

Molson and bergevin only
Care about making the playoffs and not the big push

If they cared they would blow up the tea

And you guys who think Tavares is gonna come to a loosing team like Montreal are dreaming in colour

 

[CHfan1]

It really depends on which Price and Weber we get back and how they play 3-6 years down the road.

Other goalies have played well into their mid thirties and have had success, if Price can get back to his old ways he can too, same with Weber.

The problem is their surrounding cast isn’t very good and can’t put the puck in the net.

 

[Miller Time]

I mean even with good leadership still missing a #1 elite C. Not some Kyle Turris type.

McDavid
Tavares
Eichel
Toews
Seguin
...

About 1/2 of the non playoff terms this year had a #1C that was significantly better that Turris.

No 1 position is key to success, depth, balance & "good enough" in the key areas are far more important, imo.

Far more probable that a competent GM could build a contender around Price/Weber, than MB could build one with an elite C in place

 

[Price is Wright]

Trade the entire Tampa Bay Lightning with exception to Vas and Girardi to the Canadiens for everyone they have with exception to Price and Weber.

There. That club can be pretty successful.

 

[habdynasty]

The real question is will they ever be successful with the old boys club running the ream ?

 

[yianik]

You need to have the major pieces in place and then fill it in. You will never have everything at the get go ( except Vegas, the team built over a weekend it appears ). But that's where the good drafting and developing comes in.

So if we had Tavares and let's say Hanifin paired with Weber, and a good pool of prospects, including at C and PMDs, then there would be hope of a contender.

I am not an MB supporter in the least, but the reality is when he came aboard , we had a pool of prospects that produced nothing. Not drafting centres , which is how teams get 90% of their top 6Cs has been an enormous disaster, as has not going for the high talent at every pick. Tbis failure has continued under MB for the most part.

We have a magnificent opportunity here with our bag load of high draft picks and hopefully at least another on the way. Unless it is to move up, we need to use all of these picks on talented guys so we can finally have a prospect pool that does not rank at the league bottom. Also hopefully a couple of guys are able to show top half ability, be it a Scherbak, Hudon , Lehkonen, Mete, Juulsen etc. We have some prospects who give us some hope as well, particularly from last year's draft.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Will Nashville ever be successful with Rinne and PK?

Will Dallas ever be successful with Benn and Seguin?

Will SJ ever be successful with Pavelski and Burns?

Will...???

I can go on and on with every tram in the league who hasn’t won a cup in the past 5 years but that’s the point. Only 1 team out of 31 wins the cup every year and that team usually wins more than 1. Pens and Chicago most recently. To lay it on 2 players like Price and Weber makes no sense especially when they have never had even a #2 centre on this team. They’re not the problem. Get a #1 centre and then we can talk about success or the lack thereof. In a league where goal scoring wins, we have no offence so why lay the fault on two of the better defensive players in the world?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

McDavid
Tavares
Eichel
Toews
Seguin
...

About 1/2 of the non playoff terms this year had a #1C that was significantly better that Turris.

No 1 position is key to success, depth, balance & "good enough" in the key areas are far more important, imo.

Far more probable that a competent GM could build a contender around Price/Weber, than MB could build one with an elite C in place

I think that's a weird way of looking. You look at teams with holes beyond the #1C however how many playoff teams or cup winners don't have a #1C or a #1A/#1B situation? I think it's very very small.

#1C alone isn't enough but a #1C, #1LW, #1D, #1G is a great place to start.

Although I will concede there is more than 1 way to make a good team so balance can be had but we don't have that either and aren't close.

 

[ottawa]

Oh I can keep going, how about Chicago and Pittsburgh(without ld) and LA. I just pointed out teams on the rise

OK, and Chicago didn't have a top 6 you said a team should have, and Pittsburgh didn't have the defense the 1st or 2nd time (Letang was out in the 2nd) and they didn't have the top 6 the first time.

 

[mitchmagic]

Sure but it has to happen soon.

 

[LaP]

Trade the entire Tampa Bay Lightning with exception to Vas and Girardi to the Canadiens for everyone they have with exception to Price and Weber.

There. That club can be pretty successful.

That's not gonna work.

Entire TB team minus Vas, Girardi and Sergachev for Entire CH team minus Price, Weber and Benn. Now that's better. Gotta have rispek to win and Sergachev doesn't possess any.

 

[LaP]

OK, and Chicago didn't have a top 6 you said a team should have, and Pittsburgh didn't have the defense the 1st or 2nd time (Letang was out in the 2nd) and they didn't have the top 6 the first time.

Wait Chicago did not have a top 6? They had 3 HOF (Hossa, Toews and Kane). They did not have a solid 2nd line center but the other 5 players were a damn good top 5.

 

[Beer and Chips]

2016 9th overall pick we took a defenceman, now we're desperately trying to trade Pacioretty for the 23rd overall pick Borgstrom.

 

[ottawa]

Wait Chicago did not have a top 6? They had 3 HOF (Hossa, Toews and Kane). They did not have a solid 2nd line center but the other 5 players were a damn good top 5.

Well the post I was arguing was saying we need a #1C, a #2C, a #1LW and RW and a #2LW and RW

We don't need a complete team. Every cup winner was missing a key piece somewhere. We need a #1C and a #1LD, our existing team can fill in the rest.

I know many of you want a full rebuild, I want Tavares. It's now or never with Price and Weber. After they decline, a rebuild is inevitable. Do we want two rebuilds or just one? Go for it now, deal with old age later.

 

[LaP]

Well the post I was arguing was saying we need a #1C, a #2C, a #1LW and RW and a #2LW and RW

We don't need a complete team. Every cup winner was missing a key piece somewhere. We need a #1C and a #1LD, our existing team can fill in the rest.

Of course with the cap you'll always be missing a piece or two. But realistically we are missing more than that. We are missing a 1st line center, a 2nd line center, a 1st pairing LHD and a 2nd pairing LHD. We must at the very least fill two of those spots to have a chance. And we must fill them with high quality.

 

[ottawa]

Of course with the cap you'll always be missing a piece or two. But realistically we are missing more than that. We are missing a 1st line center, a 2nd line center, a 1st pairing LHD and a 2nd pairing LHD. We must at the very least fill two of those spots to have a chance. And we must fill them with high quality.

Galchenyuk is a great #2C, Danault can fill in too. Ideally you want 50 points from your #2C, those guys give us around that.

#2LD could be Mete, he played fine last year, and based on his discussion thread, I'd say many agree with me. He should be better this year. He's closer to 2nd pairing than 3rd pairing.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Will Nashville ever be successful with Rinne and PK?

Will Dallas ever be successful with Benn and Seguin?

Will SJ ever be successful with Pavelski and Burns?

Will...???

I can go on and on with every tram in the league who hasn’t won a cup in the past 5 years but that’s the point. Only 1 team out of 31 wins the cup every year and that team usually wins more than 1. Pens and Chicago most recently. To lay it on 2 players like Price and Weber makes no sense especially when they have never had even a #2 centre on this team. They’re not the problem. Get a #1 centre and then we can talk about success or the lack thereof. In a league where goal scoring wins, we have no offence so why lay the fault on two of the better defensive players in the world?

Nashville and Sharks made finals in last few years...that's pretty good. This isn't really what I'm arguing though.

The point is most good teams have good players and get support talent. We have plenty support talent but are missing a key piece.

Dallas is lucky those 2 guys are still relatively young as if you asked some question 4 years from now I'd say they're not in good shape. I'm surprised Nill isn't fired yet.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think they can be successful with both of them. Price may have had a bad year, but he's not the team's problem. And neither is Weber.

There are other areas in the line-up that need to be addressed if the Habs are to have success. Areas that hurt the team because they have the wrong player filling that spot or the one they have should be lower in the line-up.

I never asked if you can win with Price and Weber because they are bad. I asked because we have holes and if they're not addressed were just tied to their contracts and not getting top picks either.

 

[LaP]

Will Nashville ever be successful with Rinne and PK?

Will Dallas ever be successful with Benn and Seguin?

Will SJ ever be successful with Pavelski and Burns?

If Seguin and Benn would be 31 and 33 the answer would be no. If pk was 33 the answer would be no. The window of SJ is close to be closed (if it's not already). It's maybe their last year and it doesn't look like they'll get past the 2nd round. SJ will have to retool like the Bruins did.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Nashville and Sharks made finals in last few years...that's pretty good. This isn't really what I'm arguing though.

The point is most good teams have good players and get support talent. We have plenty support talent but are missing a key piece.

Dallas is lucky those 2 guys are still relatively young as if you asked some question 4 years from now I'd say they're not in good shape. I'm surprised Nill isn't fired yet.

We have the same point though. Montreal needs a centre for support. Once we get that I think we will be a contender. It’s insane that we haven’t been a to draft, sign or trade for one in ages. If we get a guy like Tavares, we’re likely not having this conversation.

 

[scrubadam]

If habs add a 80+ point forward that also scores in the playoffs then this team can win Price and Weber.

If this team doesnt add an 80 point forward they arent going anywhere no matter what. 17 out of 21 guys who had 80 or more points were on playoff teams. Basicslly you need one of those guys for playoffs and cup.

Is it who we draft with our 3rd? Is it JT? Do we draft a guy late like Gudreau or Pasta? Do we trade like NJD like with Hall ? I dont know but it needs to happen.

And tanking is actually hard. You need just as much to go right as you need to win a cup. Look at this season. Price and Max sucked. Injuries across the board with our 1D missing 75 % of the season. AG and Drouin having down years. MB failing to resing 2 of our top players and no good UFA. Trade tons of players for picks. Picked up one of the worst back ups in the league. Yet with all this the team still finished 4th and only got lucky to get a top 3 pick.

Habs will need all this to happen again and even then it might not be enough to be worse then other teams.

 

[Sterling Archer]

If Seguin and Benn would be 31 and 33 the answer would be no. If pk was 33 the answer would be no. The window of SJ is close to be closed (if it's not already). It's maybe their last year and it doesn't look like they'll get past the 2nd round. SJ will have to retool like the Bruins did.

There’s no reason to believe Price will be any worse moving forward by goalie standards (this year aside) due to his age. Weber also hasn’t slowed down at all and is performing well within his career stats even this year with a broken foot. Their games aren’t ones that decline easily either age. Yes, Father Time catches up eventually but their position and style of play doesn’t concern me. We easily have 3-5 years before any significant to serious decline begin the appear. During that time, it’s the teams job to manage and develop prospects to supplement and enhance like Boston did with Chara and Nashville has done for Rinne and on and on. Leaving Price and Weber without bringing in a top line center will be more damning for management than it is for them as long as they keep doing what they’ve been doing.

Same goes for Nashville and they’re lack of offence. Islanders and Blues with lack of defence and goaltending. We have holes like most others teams do. Can’t blame the good players on the team for not being able to compensate for the size of the hole especially considering that not having a top 1 or even a #2 centre is the biggest hole imaginable in today’s nhl.

 

[Beer and Chips]

The mindset won't change as long as Price is here, his contract just put it in cement.