Speculation: Will Burmistrov return to the Jets??

[Scheifele55]

Until Alexander Burmistrov has a STRONG NHL season, people have all the reason to doubt his abilities. I still would love to see him on a line with Kane and Scheifele next year. You have a lot of raw talent there and if they mesh it could be exciting. As he develops further, he will only become a better PK and overall player. The worst thing this team could do is trade him for a draft choice.

 

[Kinjero]

I had my hopes up for a second, and thought things were beginning to happen..

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Until Alexander Burmistrov has a STRONG NHL season, people have all the reason to doubt his abilities. I still would love to see him on a line with Kane and Scheifele next year. You have a lot of raw talent there and if they mesh it could be exciting. As he develops further, he will only become a better PK and overall player. The worst thing this team could do is trade him for a draft choice.

The worst thing that could happen is that we get no value for him, either as a player on the team, or via a trade for another player or picks, IMHO.

 

[winterpeg]

Everyone in this thread who refers to Burmi as a "brat" or whatever needs to read interviews with Paul Maurice about his time coaching in the KHL. (OH LOOK AT THAT, PAUL IS OUR COACH!)

He talks about how players spend their whole lives developing a certain game over there, one that they are heavily praised for, and become fantastic at, and when they come over here, where they don't speak the language, and aren't able to fall into our systems lock step as soon as we ask, we get mad at them, as if there is only one way to play hockey and the last 15 years of their life shouldn't have any bearing on the way they play the game. There is a process of adjustment for these guys, and under a coach like Noel who couldn't seem to really get anyone to execute his system, it's not a surprise that Burmi didn't either. Especially, w/ language barrier and his willingness to pressbox Burmi for 4 games at a time.

Here's a genius idea, Claude Noel. If you aren't happy with how your players are playing your systems, or if small adjustments need to be made, TALK TO THEM ON THE #$%^ING BENCH!

 

[Gump Hasek]

Yup because one bad relationship means I'LL NEVER DEAL WITH YOU AGAIN. That's how all smart business people operate.

Nice things to say to the press, yup that's the end all to be all in terms of player assessment. Clearly Noel and Burmi did not get along. If TNSE lets that type of small time thinking dominate them that they will burn players like that, they are not going to get very far ever.

I'd suggest that anyone who is as to take what is said to the press at complete face value and think TNSE can't adjust, be flexible or understand the business of hockey is not thinking critically.

I conversely find it interesting how Burmistrov's supporters in general seem to only wish to assign blame to Noel for the organizational decisions made regarding Burmistrov, as that theory also displays a lack of critical thought. Noel and Burmistrov may have indeed not seen eye-to-eye, but Noel's actions regarding this player were all surely endorsed from above. A head coach doesn't bench a roster forward for multiple games in a row without first discussing it with management. Part of Burmistrov's complaint with the Jets appears to be that he was sent to the A; again, that was an organizational decision, not Noel's. Another one of Burmistrov's apparent issues was that Jokinen played ahead of him in the lineup. Well, I'm guessing that Chevy didn't bring him (a veteran on a big ticket) in here to play behind an erratic 21 y/o player. Why, it is almost as if they'd assessed that they were very weak at centre and brought Jokinen in to slot Burmistrov lower in the order where he belonged!

I didn't say they can't be flexible, but rather, that my own understanding of the business world is that the best leaders do as they say, and in this case that would likely mean that Burmistrov has no future here. Hope that helps.

 

[garret9]

My own thoughts...

Can Burmistrov help the Jets if he was a player?
Yes.

Burmistrov's accomplishments offensively are right where they should be in terms of public opinion; NHL level but below average. Burmistrov was only the Jets 8th best point per minute player for 2011-13.

Burmistrov's accomplishments overall are ridiculously underrated.

This team has never had major issues with offense:
* 12th, 16th and 13th in NHL for goals per game
*10th, 16th and 13th in NHL for shots per game

However, the team has always had major issues with defense:
* 26th, 25th and 21st in NHL for goals against per game
* 15th, 18th and 19th in NHL for shots against
* 22nd, 18th and 24th in NHL for Sv%

Now, some of that goals against is a problem with sub-par goaltending (which I show here with Sv%), but the SA show that the team isn't above average either. So, bringing back Burmistrov (Jets overall best player for reducing shots against over 5v5 + PK) is obviously a good thing for that department.

Part of that is because the Jets had the puck more often than not with Burmistrov; the Jets had their second best puck possession difference with Burmistrov and their 3rd best scoring chance difference with Burmistrov.

The whole "but Nigel Dawes / Tim Stapleton" thing is a joke of a comparison.
1) Burmistrov is younger, RFA and not yet in prime
2) Burmistrov is good enough defensively to be a plus in the NHL
Somethings those guys do not have

PS.
Average young player with Burmistrov's p/gp in KHL and at his age that moved to the NHL had a 0.56 NHL pts/gp... 46 points in 82 games. Beats spurts of Thorburn or Tangradi in the top 6....

But he left us and said mean things!

1) If Burmistrov signs after the KHL to us it will be the EXACT SAME THING that Kulda did last season. Get contract offer from Jets -> take contract from KHL as within rights to do as free agent -> sign back in NHL when term is done (and with out clause that *could* be this summer if willing)

2) Minor detail: Burmistrov did not say he disliked Noel because "he got sent down to the AHL and didn't get TOI". Burmistrov said (note: and he could be lying) that it was because he was not communicated WHY he was being sent down or WHAT was needed for him to prove he could pass Jokinen in the depth charts. Also, this is the exact same complaint with communication that Kane had for the "healthy scratch" situation and when Kane was talking about lines.

 

[garret9]

Ilya Kovalchuk not being in the Jets top 6 / 9 is possibly the greatest thing I've ever read on HF Jets.

That said, Scheifele > Burmistrov. When can we expect an updated AIH article comparing Scheifele to Couturier and Burmistrov?

I always said the plan last season (even before Burmistrov left) was to compare them at the same sample and then again at the end of the season.

I also said that would be the last time I every compare the 3 of them on AIH, ever.

Hopefully.

Young assets that can be added for nothing more than $$ are key.

Like him, don't like him - he is an asset and it is better for the Jets if he returns.

Any other argument is aside from the point IMO.

Yup.

Burmistrov + returns for Jokinen
>
Jokinen + returns for Burmistrov
>>>>>>>
No Burmistrov (returns or player) and either Jokinen, no Jokinen or Jokinen's returns

 

[CaptainChef]

Pavelec is far from over raterd

Pav is over-rated for sure. With a carreer .906 save % and showing no sign of improving, he isn't worth half of what we paid him (LOVE CHEVYS DECISIONS FOR THE MOST PART BUT THAT WAS HIS ABSOLUTE WORST). pavs needs to be bought out or turned into a backup.

As for Burmi, we really need his two-way game on this team. Garret has shown that he makes everyone who plays with him better & I genuinely buy into that.

 

[Zhamnov10]

I think Frolik is a good example of what Burmi could become a solid defensive player with good puck possesion skills.Burmi did not show Noel any respect apparently but I think that could be a reflection of the lack of respect the rest of the team showed towards Noel as well.Burmi was a young kid who maybe made some wrong choices when expressing himself I find a lot of Europeans tell it like it is a lot more because of their language barrier examples Pavelec and Frolik,Jokinen interviews.

 

[Flair Hay]

My own thoughts...

Can Burmistrov help the Jets if he was a player?
Yes.

Burmistrov's accomplishments offensively are right where they should be in terms of public opinion; NHL level but below average. Burmistrov was only the Jets 8th best point per minute player for 2011-13.

Burmistrov's accomplishments overall are ridiculously underrated.

This team has never had major issues with offense:
* 12th, 16th and 13th in NHL for goals per game
*10th, 16th and 13th in NHL for shots per game

However, the team has always had major issues with defense:
* 26th, 25th and 21st in NHL for goals against per game
* 15th, 18th and 19th in NHL for shots against
* 22nd, 18th and 24th in NHL for Sv%

Now, some of that goals against is a problem with sub-par goaltending (which I show here with Sv%), but the SA show that the team isn't above average either. So, bringing back Burmistrov (Jets overall best player for reducing shots against over 5v5 + PK).

Part of that is because the Jets had the puck more often than not with Burmistrov; the Jets had their second best puck possession difference with Burmistrov and their 3rd best scoring chance difference with Burmistrov.

The whole "but Nigel Dawes / Tim Stapleton" thing is a joke of a comparison.
1) Burmistrov is younger, RFA and not yet in prime
2) Burmistrov is good enough defensively to be a plus in the NHL
Something those guys do not have

PS.
Average young player with Burmistrov's p/gp in KHL and at his age that moved to the NHL had a 0.56 NHL pts/gp... 46 points in 82 games.

But he left us and said mean things!

1) If Burmistrov signs after the KHL to us it will be the EXACT SAME THING that Kulda did last season. Get contract offer from Jets -> take contract from KHL as within rights to do as free agent -> sign back in NHL when term is done (and with out clause that *could* be this summer if willing)

2) Minor detail: Burmistrov did not say he disliked Noel because "he got sent down to the AHL and didn't get TOI". Burmistrov said (note: and he could be lying) that it was because he was to not communicated WHY he was being sent down or WHAT was needed for him to prove he could pass Jokinen in the depth charts. Also, this is the exact same complaint with communication that Kane had for the "healthy scratch" situation and when Kane was talking about lines.

I noticed the communication thing too when the issue arose with Kane. Dealing with players and their sometimes millionaire attitudes comes with the territory until you can back it up by being a competitive team.

We're not going to improve by playing more lesser players with better character. We're going to improve by getting as much talent as we can (ie: much more), and getting that talent to come together and play to their strengths as a team.

Burmistrov has played wing and center. He was the best defensive forward we had and still would be today.

If we bring him back, we have better wingers for him to play with than when he left. It better not be the barren wasteland it was in years one and two again. He'll have a coach that is better versed with Russian players and can help the team. Heaven forbid Scheifele or Little go down, he's actually capable of moving up a line unlike Slater or Wright.

I'm assuming True North has learned a lesson from this as has Burmistrov. Him and Scheifele compliment each other great IMO for how a coach could use them.

Just my opinion, but I also think a possession player like Burmistrov could work well with Byfuglien on his wing. Buff needs guys who can carry the puck and cycle with him and do the heavy lifting defensively. Burmistrov was doing this at 19 years old. He'll be 22 this year I believe? We have our own less Canadian, more Russian version of Couturier on this team and because he threw a bit of a tantrum like a kid we're going to send him packing for good? I hope not. Give him $2.5M or something like that on a "prove it" deal and watch him help our team wins games.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think he just wanted to much money. It was never about the coach or playing time or system play. Burmistrov wanted a 2nd contract worth more then the Jets were willing to pay.

They essentially went out and replaced him with Frolik and Frolik has done everything they hoped Burmistrov would do.

It would be nice for him to come back and sign a 1 year deal for 2.5 and play his ass off like Frolik. It would be a win/win.

 

[seasontixholder*]

It was no secret that Kane, Schief, and Burmi had issues with Noel. Benching Burmi for 4 games at a time when he was playing 2x better than Joker was a joke. The Jets wasted 2.5 years with Noel. Glad Noel is gone.

 

[surixon]

Everyone in this thread who refers to Burmi as a "brat" or whatever needs to read interviews with Paul Maurice about his time coaching in the KHL. (OH LOOK AT THAT, PAUL IS OUR COACH!)

He talks about how players spend their whole lives developing a certain game over there, one that they are heavily praised for, and become fantastic at, and when they come over here, where they don't speak the language, and aren't able to fall into our systems lock step as soon as we ask, we get mad at them, as if there is only one way to play hockey and the last 15 years of their life shouldn't have any bearing on the way they play the game. There is a process of adjustment for these guys, and under a coach like Noel who couldn't seem to really get anyone to execute his system, it's not a surprise that Burmi didn't either. Especially, w/ language barrier and his willingness to pressbox Burmi for 4 games at a time.

Here's a genius idea, Claude Noel. If you aren't happy with how your players are playing your systems, or if small adjustments need to be made, TALK TO THEM ON THE #$%^ING BENCH!

My problem with this is that Burmistrov played in the CHL prior to getting drafted and had a pro season under his belt before Noel got to him. It was in his 4th season on NA that frustration started to show with him. How much of an adjustment period do you need? I've heard rumors that he turned down team offered language help, if true he didn't do himself any favors.

Having said that TNSE believes in 2nd chances so I have no doubt if it came to it they would bring him back.

 

[Grind]

The worst thing that could happen is that we get no value for him, either as a player on the team, or via a trade for another player or picks, IMHO.

order of worst tobetst things that could happen to jets regarding burmi.

1. playin KHL till NHL UFA. Sign with a an eastern conference team. become a ppg player. score the stanley cup winning goal in the eventual final between said team and winnipeg.

2. The above without the specifics- (Ie: play in the KHL til NHL Ufa, sign with another team)

3. never return to the NHL

3. get traded from the jets for a return, return to the NHL and play significantly better then whatever the jets get from the deal.

4. Get traded from the jets for a return, and hav eboth the return and burmi turn out equally as NHL players.

5. get traded from the jets for a return, and have the return perform much better (ie: burmi doesn't come back, return= totally better then burmi)

6. Burmi returns to the jets, as a decent player.

7. Burmi returns to the jets, as an astonishingly well developed player. He plays at appg level. drags the team into the playoffs. scores the over time game 7 game winning goal for the stanley cup. establishes an orphanege for lost kittens in the north end. saves a child from a burning bridge. releases a hit record. devotes his fortune to curing cancer. Cures cancer! and ascends from the position fo a mere mortal into a divine being, shining light and good fortune on winnipeggers from now until forever. Trumpets play. Eagles sore. the heavens erupt in a chorus of joy as Burmi finally acends to his rightful place among the stars, forever in our hearts and memories. a legend is born. amen.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

My own thoughts...

Can Burmistrov help the Jets if he was a player?
Yes.

Burmistrov's accomplishments offensively are right where they should be in terms of public opinion; NHL level but below average. Burmistrov was only the Jets 8th best point per minute player for 2011-13.

Can you tell us what public opinion accomplishments are vs. real accomplishments, and where we might find them?

Burmistrov's accomplishments overall are ridiculously underrated.

This team has never had major issues with offense:
* 12th, 16th and 13th in NHL for goals per game
*10th, 16th and 13th in NHL for shots per game

However, the team has always had major issues with defense:
* 26th, 25th and 21st in NHL for goals against per game
* 15th, 18th and 19th in NHL for shots against
* 22nd, 18th and 24th in NHL for Sv%

Now, some of that goals against is a problem with sub-par goaltending (which I show here with Sv%), but the SA show that the team isn't above average either. So, bringing back Burmistrov (Jets overall best player for reducing shots against over 5v5 + PK) is obviously a good thing for that department.

Part of that is because the Jets had the puck more often than not with Burmistrov; the Jets had their second best puck possession difference with Burmistrov and their 3rd best scoring chance difference with Burmistrov.

honest question: How is it that the team's Corsi/Fenwick numbers going into last night's game were exactly the same as they were last year with Burmi and Wellwood - even though we're in a way tougher conference? It's almost like we don't need him at all.....

The whole "but Nigel Dawes / Tim Stapleton" thing is a joke of a comparison.
1) Burmistrov is younger, RFA and not yet in prime
2) Burmistrov is good enough defensively to be a plus in the NHL
Somethings those guys do not have

Its actually not a joke of a comparison at all. He's 22 years old. Many of the league's best players had their best NHL season when they were 22 (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, etc.) Meanwhile, Burmi is playing in the KHL and he has 6 more points than career AHL defenseman Shaun Heshka.

PS.
Average young player with Burmistrov's p/gp in KHL and at his age that moved to the NHL had a 0.56 NHL pts/gp... 46 points in 82 games. Beats spurts of Thorburn or Tangradi in the top 6....

Did those players have a previous NHL resumes? Because Burmistrov has one. 58 points in 194 games. Which is a 24 point player. If we use his last season, he's even worse. He's an 18 point player.

Of course, he could prove us all wrong and put up 100 points here one day but that would first require him to come back to the team he turned his back on when he bolted. HE BOLTED. You can try to decipher russian newspaper quotes all you want, but it wont change that single fact that he left. Lots of young players get the short end of the stick for TOI or opportunities. They have to earn it. 95% of those young players take their lumps and decide to prove to their coaches that they deserve it. Burmi puts up 4 goals and 10 points in 44 games and he took his ball and went home. C'ya! Hope he gets lots of Korsis playing in the Urals.

 

[garret9]

Can you tell us what public opinion accomplishments are vs. real accomplishments, and where we might find them?

Seriously Scott? Public opinions are all here to read, and twitter, and NHL.com, and yahoo, etc.

Honest question: How is it that the team's Corsi/Fenwick numbers going into last night's game were exactly the same as they were last year with Burmi and Wellwood - even though we're in a way tougher conference? It's almost like we don't need him at all.....

If you can't figure that out I can't help you.

More good players = more good results.
Jets lost some good AND bad players, and gained some good AND bad players.

Its actually not a joke of a comparison at all. He's 22 years old. Many of the league's best players had their best NHL season when they were 22 (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, etc.) Meanwhile, Burmi is playing in the KHL and he has 6 more points than career AHL defenseman Shaun Heshka.

Trend > few points.

I can pick out a few points on the other extreme if I wanted, but instead I'll stick to the average.

Trend is retaining 0.78 pts/gp going from KHL to NHL.

Did those players have a previous NHL resumes? Because Burmistrov has one. 58 points in 194 games. Which is a 24 point player. If we use his last season, he's even worse. He's an 18 point player.

It's all transitioning players, so yes, some would (but very few). However that doesn't change anything.

Of course, he could prove us all wrong and put up 100 points here one day but that would first require him to come back to the team he turned his back on when he bolted. HE BOLTED. You can try to decipher russian newspaper quotes all you want, but it wont change that single fact that he left. Lots of young players get the short end of the stick for TOI or opportunities. They have to earn it. 95% of those young players take their lumps and decide to prove to their coaches that they deserve it. Burmi puts up 4 goals and 10 points in 44 games and he took his ball and went home. C'ya! Hope he gets lots of Korsis playing in the Urals.

He "bolted" laugh from us no more than Kulda did.

I only corrected what other peoples opinions were (including your own here since you talk about TOI, bolting and taking his ball home) about the only source we had...

...well not the only source... We also have a second source on some other details.

[mod]

 

[surixon]

The third line still largely bless from a possession stand point. Bringing Burmi back to help stabilize that line would help the team out.

Burmi Olli Buff would be a very good line.

Add in atwo-way LHD and good goalie and this team will shoot up the standings.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Seriously Scott? Public opinions are all here to read, and twitter, and NHL.com, and yahoo, etc.

Well, you said his accomplishments are right in line with public opinion. So now that we've signficantly scaled down our expectations to the point where he's not an offensive threat at all, he's "meeting" our expectations of him? That's weird.

If you can't figure that out I can't help you.

More good players = more good results.
Jets lost some good AND bad players, and gained some good AND bad players.

I get this. But you're definition of "good" is based almost entirely on their 5 on 5 shot metrics, and doesn't account for being bad at offense, which is his primary role. I think Burmistrov is a great defensive player and I would love to have his defensive skills on this team, but not at the expense of being a crybaby whiner.

Also, I do think you're misinterpretting the data by assigning individual's with a certain worth based on their 5 on 5 play (which is largely teammate driven), but it's not a simple case of addition and subtraction. Lots of good possession players goto bad possession teams and their numbers tank. And vice versa. So it's not as easy as taking 23 Corsi + players, putting them on a team and having the best team. Anyway, we'll take that up elsewhere because it will just kill this Burmi thread.

Trend > few points.

I can pick out a few points on the other extreme if I wanted, but instead I'll stick to the average.

Trend is retaining 0.78 pts/gp going from KHL to NHL.

It's all transitioning players, so yes, some would (but very few). However that doesn't change anything.

Ok, so you're going to apply a trend for all players to figure out what player A would produce in the NHL, despite knowing that player A actually did in the NHL. Seems weird, but ok.

He "bolted" laugh from us no more than Kulda did.

I only corrected what other peoples opinions were (including your own here since you talk about TOI, bolting and taking his ball home) about the only source we had...

...well not the only source... We also have a second source on some other details.

Kulda played 15 NHL games over 8 seasons of professional hockey in North America.
Burmistrov played 194 games over 3.5 seasons. Not really the same, is it?

One toughed it out and tried his best to break into the league despite being paid chump change and schlepping it in 8 hour bus rides all over the continent. The other was handed a golden ticket and tossed it straight into the garbage.

 

[Le Golie]

Wow. The one thing I did not expect at all was people would argue that Kovalchuk wasn't a legit top 6 forward. I mean I could see not a franchise player anymore, but what? It...boggles the mind. Just, I mean, what?

Kovalchuk is a top 3 forward on almost any team in the NHL. Nevermind not a top 9 forward on the freaking Jets.

A Whitney comparison? Kovalchuk is 30 years old, not 41 years old (not too mention almost a ppg at 40 last year).

This just makes no sense, other than some ridiculous outdated (even then never really true) idea that NHL contains the best 600 players somehow. Kovalchuk is one of the best players in the world as this tournament in a few weeks will show, you doubters will see.

Yeah he had 1 goal and 3 points in Vancouver when he was a much better producer than he is now. You really expect him to kill it in Sochi? Sure he's a top 6 player on the Jets but he's still hugely overrated. I get that he was a fun player to watch but he didn't have a better career than a guy like Jason Spezza, who has a better PPG, but gets no respect.

 

[truck]

One toughed it out and tried his best to break into the league despite being paid chump change and schlepping it in 8 hour bus rides all over the continent. The other was handed a golden ticket and tossed it straight into the garbage.

How does accepting more money to play hockey in his home town equate to tossing a golden ticket straight into the garbage?

 

[JetsFan815]

But... Is he really wearing #69 for Ak Bars this year?? Wow. Maybe he is a little off...

Yes... a 21 year old thought it would be funny to have #69 as his number... THE HORROR, THE HORROR... something definitely must be wrong with him. Certain players are held to a ridiculous standard these days, people expect the player not only to dominate the league but also be the second coming of Mother Teresa.

Of course, he could prove us all wrong and put up 100 points here one day but that would first require him to come back to the team he turned his back on when he bolted. HE BOLTED. You can try to decipher russian newspaper quotes all you want, but it wont change that single fact that he left. Lots of young players get the short end of the stick for TOI or opportunities. They have to earn it. 95% of those young players take their lumps and decide to prove to their coaches that they deserve it. Burmi puts up 4 goals and 10 points in 44 games and he took his ball and went home. C'ya! Hope he gets lots of Korsis playing in the Urals.

He did not "bolt". He was a (Restricted) Free agent and chose to sign with a different team AS IS HIS RIGHT. He did not break his contract with the Jets, he did everything he was asked to by the organisation while he was still under contract with them, case in point him reporting to the AHL without making a fuss even when he wanted to play in the KHL. I understand you're upset but Burmistrov is not your girlfriend who moved on with another guy so you're never gonna have her back, he's a just a hockey player. I don't understand why you're taking everything so personally

Edit: I find it interesting how much hype Couturier gets on this board yet the same folks who can't stop praising Couturier don't want Burmi back who is no worse than Couturier, infact both players (down to their numbers) are eerily similar.

 

[White Out 403*]

If it was up to me Burmi would be here today. We need all the help we can get and its a clean slate for everyone imo. Except Pavs. He would have to backstop us to the playoffs for me to want him here next season. edit: for the record im totally ok with that too if it happens.

 

[Tarks]

Pavelec is far from over raterd

And Burmi isn't a Jet.

 

[garret9]

Well, you said his accomplishments are right in line with public opinion. So now that we've significantly scaled down our expectations to the point where he's not an offensive threat at all, he's "meeting" our expectations of him? That's weird.

Wasn't the point at all. I was saying that from what I thought (since I started the post with "My own thoughts") were that Burmistrov's middle of the road ability to score points was being overly weighed when people were considering his overall contributions.

For the rest my thoughts interjected in Blue

I get this. But you're definition of "good" is based almost entirely on their 5 on 5 shot metrics (false, and rather insulting to me to claim this), and doesn't account for being bad at offense (false... I myself used Corsi once to show how Burmistrov performed better defensively while Scheifele performed better offensively... also, when you defended Stuart you said Corsi was good determiner of offensive contributions but not defensive, now you are saying basically the opposite for Burmi?), which is his primary role (false, out scoring via out-chancing with quantity and quality is a player's role). I think Burmistrov is a great defensive player and I would love to have his defensive skills on this team, but not at the expense of being a crybaby whiner (speculation).

Also, I do think you're misinterpretting the data by assigning individual's with a certain worth based on their 5 on 5 play (which is largely teammate driven) (team driven meaning there is more than one player on the ice yes and effects are cumulative yes; however, that just means it DOES work but you gotta separate the player from the other factors), but it's not a simple case of addition and subtraction. Lots of good possession players go to bad possession teams and their numbers tank. And vice versa. (correct, but the tendency for a player to affect the possession of that team is HIGHLY repeatable regardless of moving from good to bad teams...deltaCorsi (QoC, QoT and OZS regression is in high +0.7 R^2 range from one season to next)...this is why you look at trends, WOWY's, and usage regressions... all of which look brightly on Burmistrov... also, not exactly like Jets are a "good possession" team inflating Burmistrov's results... I think you are misinterpreting how these numbers are used.) So it's not as easy as taking 23 Corsi + players, putting them on a team and having the best team (Strawman, that's not my opinion or point. In fact I introduced my point looking at the team's strengths and weaknesses and stating that Burmistrov addresses one of the Jets larger weaknesses. But in the end, it's about accumulating talent.). Anyway, we'll take that up elsewhere because it will just kill this Burmi thread.


Ok, so you're going to apply a trend for all players to figure out what player A would produce in the NHL (not "would", "most likely"... people are making less logical jumps of conclusions re: Dawes or Heshka; they are saying: see this one dot on the graph, that is the trend... I merely am pointing at what the trend is), despite knowing that player A actually did in the NHL (developmental curve? PS the trend is offense peaks at 24-27 range... trend>few examples). Seems weird, but ok. (point is trend >>>> singular examples)



Kulda played 15 NHL games over 8 seasons of professional hockey in North America.
Burmistrov played 194 games over 3.5 seasons. Not really the same, is it? (when discussing what a player did legalistically and contractually it is EXACTLY the same... anything else is speculation.)

One toughed it out and tried his best to break into the league despite being paid chump change and schlepping it in 8 hour bus rides all over the continent. The other was handed a golden ticket and tossed it straight into the garbage. (lol exaggeration again based of speculation; he was a free agent and took the contract he thought best for him; anything else is guesswork)

In the end, I'm just discussing about what are the reasonable expectations.

 

[Rook37]

And Burmi isn't a Jet.

Wow, I had no idea. That was really helpful, thanks!

Do you also notice how much better some think Burmi was as more and more time passes, [mod tranlation=some] even see him as a top 6 now.

...

Here, read this quote:

Benching Burmi for 4 games at a time when he was playing 2x better than Joker was a joke.

^that was an incredibly common opinion.

Pretty much everyone wanted Burmi in the top 6 when Olli was dragging his feet all over the ice last season.

It's just strange to act like him being the top 6 is a new idea when A) you were arguing with people about it a year ago and B) nobody in this thread thinks he should be top6 over Scheifele. that was a silly post, sip.