News Article: WIIM: Filip Zadina Deserves Better...

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I thought I remember Zadina and Vrana not mixing well.

I would like to see Bertuzzi and Zadina on a line. But I don't want to mess with the chemistry that top line has.

Zadina and Larkin are like oil and water.

Zadina and Vrana are like mentos and coca cola. They played well off each other. I wonder if it's a language thing?

 

[Frk It]

Zadina and Larkin are like oil and water.

Zadina and Vrana are like mentos and coca cola. They played well off each other. I wonder if it's a language thing?

Aren't they both RW's? I guess we could just put one at LW.

I am all for a top 6 of:

Bert-Larkin-Raymond
Zadina-Whoever-Vrana

As I've said, I really wish that whoever could be Hertl. That top 6 could be legitimately good, IMO. Plus how cool would it be to have an all Czech line?

 

[Gniwder]

I do wonder when people start to attack Fabbri the same way they attack Zadina. Or do we just selectively pick the people we want to hang from the gallows based on an irrelevant set of qualifications?

He has 1 more goal than Zadina, falls behind Zadina in almost every single predictive analytical category, his play on the defensive side of the puck is nearly treacherous, his brain lapses generally happen in more dangerous areas of the ice or at more inopportune times.

I've seen nobody besides @ButtKrak harp on Fabbri's disappointing play at any point in time, but yet it feels like half of the members here want Zadina extradited back to the Czech Republic while still slobbering over Fabbri just because the trade was 1 for 1. I could not care less about how a player comes into the fold. I don't care that Fabbri was a dumpster dive by Yzerman and that Zadina was a #6 overall pick. They are playing essentially the same role, with the same output, on the same team at the same time. One presents a pretty clear analytical leg up, and the impacts shown by With or Without point to A) firstly some really nice chemistry between the two, but B) some really interesting metrics. They both are hurt playing away from one another, but Zadina's numbers are a little bit more resilient than Fabbri's. That is particularly interesting because Fabbri's most common linemates away from that second line are Larkin, Bertuzzi, and Raymond filling in for whichever of those first two were out on a given night. Zadina's most common linemates away from the second line are Erne, Veleno, Namestnikov and Rasmussen.

So Fabbri gets elevated and plays worse, and Zadina gets demoted and plays worse but not to the same extend that Fabbri plays worse.

Fabbri+Zadina:
CF% - 54.66%
GF% - 57.14%
xGF% - 62.05%
SCF% - 55.81%
HDCF% - 66.67%

Fabbri w/o Zadina:
CF% - 43.23%
GF% - 28.57%
xGF% - 42.59%
SCF% - 36.45%
HDCF% - 31.82%

Zadina w/o Fabbri:
CF% - 42.93%
GF% - 33.33%
xGF% - 46.76%
SCF% - 45.83%
HDCF% - 37.78%

I'm not gonna attack Fabbri because as you well know, I like the kid. But he has been disappointing this season not so much because he's not scoring but because he's made a lot of boneheaded decisions in the defensive zone including some really weak passes that resulted in giveaways.

Offensively he's gonna be hit or miss because of the way he scores. He's not a finesse scorer, he's a little guy that likes to get into the dirty areas. Plus he seems more effective on Larkin's wing, but that spot is taken.

If he doesn't shore up his defensive play he might not get re-signed, nor should he. There are other UFA options out there.

 

[izlez]

Zadina and Vrana are like mentos and coca cola. They played well off each other. I wonder if it's a language thing?

I don't think this analogy is helping anything. Do mentos and coke mix well together? If I accidentally drop my Mentos in my coke in that guy's car as I'm passing through at the crosswalk, he is NOT going to be happy.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't think this analogy is helping anything. Do mentos and coke mix well together? If I accidentally drop my Mentos in my coke in that guy's car as I'm passing through at the crosswalk, he is NOT going to be happy.

They're explosive is what I'm getting at. They turned some nothing plays into really pretty goals last season after we got Vrana.

 

[dragonballgtz]

I'll put this in a way so it doesn't get yeeted

However, it doesn’t matter if he’s not putting pucks in the back of the net.

He is suppose to be a point producing forward. He isn't producing... saying it's fine he is not scoring is dumb. Just looking good isn't enough.

 

[Bench]

They're explosive is what I'm getting at.

 

[PavelDatsyuk13DET]

I'm going to reiterate a little and add to what others have said. The part about Zadina playing well in this article is total BS. I was at the game on Saturday night and he was given beautiful opportunities but he repeatedly made the wrong play and did not create much on his own. I know he's only 22 but he's been given plenty of chances to get his career going in the right direction and I just don't see this guy ever being a 30+ goal scorer like some people thought on draft day. He's a huge disappointment so far.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Getting turned pro too quickly and the COVID pandemic killed this kid's career. He should've spent another year in juniors and two full seasons in the AHL. That's on Holland for burning his last year of junior eligibility, but Yzerman should've buried him in the AHL for two seasons.

 

[DetroitRed]

If he was on a call up right now, he'd get sent back down. You can't average 28-29 points a season from the second line, keep the change.

 

[izlez]

Getting turned pro too quickly and the COVID pandemic killed this kid's career. He should've spent another year in juniors and two full seasons in the AHL. That's on Holland for burning his last year of junior eligibility, but Yzerman should've buried him in the AHL for two seasons.

Oh boy... Does any of Zadina's lack of success fall on Zadina?

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Aren't they both RW's? I guess we could just put one at LW.

I am all for a top 6 of:

Bert-Larkin-Raymond
Zadina-Whoever-Vrana

As I've said, I really wish that whoever could be Hertl. That top 6 could be legitimately good, IMO. Plus how cool would it be to have an all Czech line?

vrana is a LW

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

100% on this train. The 2nd line has 2 pieces (Fabbri - Suter) That would make for a decent scoring 3rd line. But we're not that deep. I can see them providing better scoring depth against lower quality of competition as a 3rd line with Erne on the wing. At the same time, Fabbri is pretty bad defensively and is prone to make really bad passes on the breakout that cause the line to get hemmed into their zone. I like that he provides cheap scoring depth and was basically free, but I don't like the defensive liability.

Vrana provides a good weapon on the 2nd line and he's probably the one player Zadina has good chemistry with. Berggren is pretty hot in Grand Rapids right now and may also be a near future option.

2nd line C is problematic. Either Veleno needs to step up big, we need to make a trade, or we need to draft someone to fill that hole behind Larkin.

Just dreaming of a Vrana Wright Zadina 2nd line over here

 

[FMichael]

I'm going to reiterate a little and add to what others have said. The part about Zadina playing well in this article is total BS. I was at the game on Saturday night and he was given beautiful opportunities but he repeatedly made the wrong play and did not create much on his own. I know he's only 22 but he's been given plenty of chances to get his career going in the right direction and I just don't see this guy ever being a 30+ goal scorer like some people thought on draft day. He's a huge disappointment so far.

Oh boy... Does any of Zadina's lack of success fall on Zadina?

I could be wrong, and have been wrong in the past...That said you would think by now that we would have seen his scoring/offensive prowess if he had any...Raymond on the other hand is our Marner/Kane - he has the tools to be an offensive generator on a nightly basis and is showing it.

 

[TheMule93]

Can't criticize the obvious draft pick, can criticize the player for failing to "fill their nets" after how cocky he was on draft night

He looks more confident with the puck on his stick this season. He's not afraid to hold on to it for more than a split second as had been the case in the past. He has debilitatingly low athleticism and hockey iq which he can't really fix, but be still can work on his shot. He won't be a line driver, but he still can be a complementary player on line 2 or 3. Just my opinion.

 

[MBH]

I could be wrong, and have been wrong in the past...That said you would think by now that we would have seen his scoring/offensive prowess if he had any...Raymond on the other hand is our Marner/Kane - he has the tools to be an offensive generator on a nightly basis and is showing it.

I don't even think Raymond is anywhere near as good as his stats...but it's f***ing plain as day why he scores and Zadina doesn't

 

[Syckle78]

okay

The guy has one more goal than Rasmussen. What are you laughing at?

 

[Gniwder]

[QUOTE="MBH, post: 181211229, member: 320167"]I don't even think Raymond is anywhere near as good as his stats...but it's f***ing plain as day why he scores and Zadina doesn't[/QUOTE]
Wut? I think he'll be closer to 50/50 goals to assists as Bert and D-Boss cool down (Bert's at 27.3 SH%), but I think the production is somewhat sustainable, but closer to .8 - .9 PPG pace.

He's got very high hockey IQ, he knows what he's gonna do with the puck before it even touches his stick. Zadina on the other hand, you can tell he has to think about what he's gonna do, and Raz is even worse, he's gotta hold the puck for a second or two to make that decision. Plus he knows where he needs to go, sneaks in on back door plays, and can actually convert 2 on 1 (though the OT goal was flukey).

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

The guy has one more goal than Rasmussen. What are you laughing at?

This forum's read on Zadina is truly wild. His offensive impact is far more signifcant than Rasmussen. Every offensive and defensive metric we measure shows that Zadina is playing well, it's just his counting stats aren't there yet. It's his first full season, and as we've now seen with Suter, sometimes, the counting stats take a little while to catch up. Unless you're a truly elite player, this stuff tends to all even out over a full season.

Zadina becoming the forum's whipping boy is the wildest choice of whipping boy I've ever seen on here in my 14 years of posting here.

 

[Bench]

Zadina becoming the forum's whipping boy is the wildest choice of whipping boy I've ever seen on here in my 14 years of posting here.

"Play the kids!! Let them develop on scoring lines! They are better than the vet scrubs."

* 21-year-old gets NHL time on the top lines to develop his game*

"I can't believe how much I don't enjoy the thing I asked for!"

 

[Syckle78]

This forum's read on Zadina is truly wild. His offensive impact is far more signifcant than Rasmussen. Every offensive and defensive metric we measure shows that Zadina is playing well, it's just his counting stats aren't there yet. It's his first full season, and as we've now seen with Suter, sometimes, the counting stats take a little while to catch up. Unless you're a truly elite player, this stuff tends to all even out over a full season.

Zadina becoming the forum's whipping boy is the wildest choice of whipping boy I've ever seen on here in my 14 years of posting here.

He's a goal scorer with 2 goals in 17 games. I don't care about the rest of the fluff when that's all that is being produced.

 

[Syckle78]

"Play the kids!! Let them develop on scoring lines! They are better than the vet scrubs."

* 21-year-old gets NHL time on the top lines to develop his game*

"I can't believe how much I don't enjoy the thing I asked for!"

Oh, we asked for him to score 2 goals in 17 games? Please spare us the condescending bs when the guy is clearly not living up to expectations. If you are content with Rasmussen like production that is great but let's not pretend like he's above criticism at this point.

 

[Bench]

Oh, we asked for him to score 2 goals in 17 games? Please spare us the condescending bs when the guy is clearly not living up to expectations. If you are content with Rasmussen like production that is great but let's not pretend like he's above criticism at this point.

Take it easy, man. We're all having fun here.

I'm saying this is exactly what it's like when you put prospects on the top lines. Struggles and growing pains. Criticize all you like, but you have to admit there's an irony after years of hearing about how it's the scrub vets keeping guys just like Zadina from meaningful minutes.

Literally everyone wishes Zadina was better right now. Where we differ is if it's time to give up yet or if he's making any progress.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

"Play the kids!! Let them develop on scoring lines! They are better than the vet scrubs."

* 21-year-old gets NHL time on the top lines to develop his game*

"I can't believe how much I don't enjoy the thing I asked for!"

lol, yes, this is exactly it. I feel like I've been in the Twilight Zone reading this this board the last month.

 

[Bench]

lol, yes, this is exactly it. I feel like I've been in the Twilight Zone reading this this board the last month.

Same. I keep going, "Wait, I thought this was a good thing they were giving a kid tons of time to work it out?"

We all wish he had more going at this point but I'm happy with the process.