Why the Habs need to make a push now

[DXStriker]

Yup finishing 7th is the best spot....also it is the reason I hate the new playoff format. If we are in a solid playoff position at the deadline i'd be happy if we did a Vanke style deal with a 2nd and a medium prospect for a rental. Nothing more.

Yeah this format is dumb ( I know Rivalries but bleh ) .
It was shown last year when the 2nd and 3rd best teams IN THE LEAGUE played each other rnd 2 in the west (WPG & NSH) when they should have matched up in the West Finals .
I cannot remember but I believe the East had the same kind of thing with the #2 and 3 best East teams play each other rnd 2

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Not sure.

Yzerman.......

 

[WeThreeKings]

I said I agreed with your post

I know and I was just replying to your two additional points.

 

[Milhouse40]

Good players don't need 5 years to mature. When you're talking about Suzuki and Brook types, the road to the NHL is shorter than your average mid to late round selection.

Second, a lot can happen between now and 3 years from now. I don't think you can project who will be here and who won't, with absolute certainty. Neither can you say with any degree of confidence that there won't be any new assets incoming that will make up for the shortfalls in performance by those aging assets you mention. That to me is the most recurring fallacy of these projections people make -- look at roster turnover, year over year. There will be new blood. It'll be up to the GM to make savvy moves going forward.

Not disagreeing about trading for assets with term. However, those types of trades typically happen in the summer. The TDL is mostly contending teams looking for rentals and offering draft picks that won't be in the upper echelon.

Ultimately, you have to either have faith in their ability to replicate last summer or not. I think that's what it really comes down to. Are they going to be able to do it again? I'd like to find out since they were just able to pull that off and I'd like to believe that they have the know-how to do it again. It's definitely worth waiting for, IMHO. Which is why I think all of it can be reassessed after this summer -- see what shakes out. Who they can trade for, draft, sign. We're not that far off.

Like i said for Suzuki and Brooks type of player....they'll probably enter the league next year but before they fulfilled their potential, it will take more years. Look at Drouin and Domi for example, after 3-4 years in the league, they have still not reach their full potential. It took many years also for guys like Scheifele or MacKinnon for example. Eichel is not there yet either after 3 years. Guys like Suzuki or Brooks probably won't get there any faster than them.

Having said that....here's an example of what i'm saying. (Spit balling here and not trying to be perfect but trying to put the team over the top) but i'm going to fill some holes.

Domi - Duchene - Gallagher
Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Kreider
Byron - Danault - Armia
Deslauriers - Poehling - Shaw

Lindholm - Weber
Mete - Petry
Reilly - Brooks

Is this enough to be known as a top team that has a chance to be a contender? Maybe not a perfect team, but honestly, i think that's a very dangerous team for the next 2-3 years with Price in net. At least this is a ton more dangerous than what we have now. Still missing some stars power but we will miss some star power unless we finished bottom of the league which is not in our future with Price in net.

How did i get Kreider?
I traded a 2nd + 5th + Hudon + Evans + Olofsson for him at this year TDL. Overpayment, yeah but i got a goal scoring RW with size.

How did i get Duchene?
This is where i dream a little, but i went nuts in the UFA and offered him 10M. Overpayment it is.

How did i get Lindholm?
Well, i traded 2019 1st round + 2020 1st round pick + 2019 3rd round + Ikonen + Juulsen + Lehkonen for him. Overpayment it is also.

And that's pretty much only an example and i didn't think much about cap space or any of that. And i made sure all my offers were terrible in terms of value but those offers were also too good to pass for the other teams/players.

I still got Romanov and Suzuki to add to this line-up.
I still got Shaw and Poehling riding the 4ht line even if they could play a bigger role in this line-up.

Change the names of the players if you like (I've gone with names apparently available). Now, do we whine because this team don't have a 1st round pick for 2 years and got rid of some spare parts that might have of future or do we sit back watch a team very close of being contender if not a contender. Cause i think this would be a contender for the next 3-4 years.

 

[The Great Weal]

I'd much rather try and keep our prospects and picks. We need to actually commit to a rebuild/retool for once.

 

[No More Subban]

Patience is key and if we can get ONE UFA that solves a long-term need we don't have in the system (Stone at RW, for example, or Gardiner at LD), it's a start. It also, along with a better season the following year, adds arguments for signing another UFA the following season that could put us over the top. Prospects pushing up through the system, along with the rising League Cap, can help us keep a team together for a push that lasts several years.

The idea of building everything in one foul swoop limits the moves to the talents available and to attracting UFAs with a team that isn't developed enough yet.

The key will be KK having become a C with a greater impact than he currently has.

In two years, A D of:

Gardiner (30)/Fowler (29) - Weber (35)
Romanov (21) - Petry (33)
Mete (22) - Juulsen (23)
Brook (21)

Would look pretty impressive if a move for a LHD can happen between now and then, for example. Up front, the options are even greater with so many contracts up for renewal.

**** that.

Boston and Toronto would eat him up when Habs play them.

And also in 2 years, if Mete is a 3rd pairing dman, then that would mean he didn't improve at all.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'd much rather try and keep our prospects and picks. We need to actually commit to a rebuild/retool for once.

We have to stop p***yfooting around and ****in commit to one clear direction.

 

[NORiculous]

Like i said for Suzuki and Brooks type of player....they'll probably enter the league next year but before they fulfilled their potential, it will take more years. Look at Drouin and Domi for example, after 3-4 years in the league, they have still not reach their full potential. It took many years also for guys like Scheifele or MacKinnon for example. Eichel is not there yet either after 3 years. Guys like Suzuki or Brooks probably won't get there any faster than them.

Having said that....here's an example of what i'm saying. (Spit balling here and not trying to be perfect but trying to put the team over the top) but i'm going to fill some holes.

Domi - Duchene - Gallagher
Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Kreider
Byron - Danault - Armia
Deslauriers - Poehling - Shaw

Lindholm - Weber
Mete - Petry
Reilly - Brooks

Is this enough to be known as a top team that has a chance to be a contender? Maybe not a perfect team, but honestly, i think that's a very dangerous team for the next 2-3 years with Price in net. At least this is a ton more dangerous than what we have now. Still missing some stars power but we will miss some star power unless we finished bottom of the league which is not in our future with Price in net.

How did i get Kreider?
I traded a 2nd + 5th + Hudon + Evans + Olofsson for him at this year TDL. Overpayment, yeah but i got a goal scoring RW with size.

How did i get Duchene?
This is where i dream a little, but i went nuts in the UFA and offered him 10M. Overpayment it is.

How did i get Lindholm?
Well, i traded 2019 1st round + 2020 1st round pick + 2019 3rd round + Ikonen + Juulsen + Lehkonen for him. Overpayment it is also.

And that's pretty much only an example and i didn't think much about cap space or any of that. And i made sure all my offers were terrible in terms of value but those offers were also too good to pass for the other teams/players.

I still got Romanov and Suzuki to add to this line-up.
I still got Shaw and Poehling riding the 4ht line even if they could play a bigger role in this line-up.

Change the names of the players if you like (I've gone with names apparently available). Now, do we whine because this team don't have a 1st round pick for 2 years and got rid of some spare parts that might have of future or do we sit back watch a team very close of being contender if not a contender. Cause i think this would be a contender for the next 3-4 years.

Ana fans on here seem to be saying that Lindholm is not available and/or doesn’t make sense to trade. You did put a strong case for them to listen IMO.

But just for argument sake, why would Lindholm be worth so much?

I don’t like Kreider but I get the general idea. I still think we should try to win with kids. Habs have a great leader in Weber, etc. Just bring and draft good kids, and keep building. No quick fix.

 

[Canadienna]

It's all on Price. He's our only real trump card. Bad situation, but it is what it is.

3 scenarios over the next few years.


Scenario 1: He plays ~.900 and generally poorly over the next few years, and has injuries holding him back.

In this scenario, the Habs will be forced into a rebuild, and a number of the older assets will be moved.


Scenario 2: He plays ~ .915 and generally average, but not stealing many games, and still allowing frequent softies.

In this scenario, the Habs will spend the next few years pushing for the playoffs until our older players lose their value or ability.


Scenario 3: He plays like a .930 goaltender and in 2014-2016 form. Steals games, and hides our deficiencies on the team.

In this scenario, the Habs will be deadline buyers and use our young assets to improve the team in the present.

 

[Guy Larose]

Why would one even compare casual fans on a fan board to someone who does it for a living? What an absurd standard to hold someone to.

You can call it what you want but when we're winning and keeping up with the likes of Winnipeg and TO then I read people saying trade Tatar etc, it really does sound dumb. For a living? Well no, people keep saying that our GM sucks and try to sound better than he is, so again, maybe people can think a little before they throw out stupidities? As much as people have put it in their heads that we're rebuilding, we're not.

 

[Guy Larose]

Our one area of strength is our prospect pool. I say we keep that.
Not slamming Drouin, but I would trade him for a LD and move Petry for a lottery pick if possible.

After every draft I hear people say our pool is strong, it's not as of now. We don't know for a while. People were drooling over Mccarron and he was an untouchable. Same with a lot of other busts. Too early to start calling our pool strong.

 

[Guy Larose]

Can't be worst than the clown in place.

Our GM doesn't need any lessons in self-sabotage. He's mastered that art a long time ago.

I'm not the biggest MB fan, but I find people quick to judge. Droning for Sergachev was having people jump off bridges. What's it look like today? JD is one of our best scorers and the other one is sitting most nights. People were crucifying him for the Domi trade and now? I won't go through all the examples but I find that people jump to conclusions really quick when most people here can't evaluate players to save their lives.

 

[cphabs]

After every draft I hear people say our pool is strong, it's not as of now. We don't know for a while. People were drooling over Mccarron and he was an untouchable. Same with a lot of other busts. Too early to start calling our pool strong.

Our prospects tore up the WJC and are doing some incredible things with their home clubs. I’ve never seen a pool like this.

 

[Draft Dynasty]

You need superstars to win in this league..its pretty obvious..Big name players like Crosby,Ovi, Malkin, Getzlaf, Kane, Toews, Kopitar etc..

We currently have Price and Weber. If we dont do anything and just draft mid to late first round...chance are slim to draft a superstar. You need to draft in lotory pick and I dont think it will happen again.

Let says we play de safe route and just keep picks first round..we already tried that. Fischer, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Leblanc, Scherbak, Mccarron, Komisarek, Chipchura, etc etc.. You dont get an allstar by drafting late in the first.

 

[cphabs]

It's all on Price. He's our only real trump card. Bad situation, but it is what it is.

3 scenarios over the next few years.


Scenario 1: He plays ~.900 and generally poorly over the next few years, and has injuries holding him back.

In this scenario, the Habs will be forced into a rebuild, and a number of the older assets will be moved.


Scenario 2: He plays ~ .915 and generally average, but not stealing many games, and still allowing frequent softies.

In this scenario, the Habs will spend the next few years pushing for the playoffs until our older players lose their value or ability.


Scenario 3: He plays like a .930 goaltender and in 2014-2016 form. Steals games, and hides our deficiencies on the team.

In this scenario, the Habs will be deadline buyers and use our young assets to improve the team in the present.

Never build a team around a goaltender.

 

[Rockomax]

And you're scared of Carolina....do you know why Carolina is suddenly close to us?
Well, their GM made a move and got Niederreiter.....and your advice would be to stay still?

Depends. If he can make move like Rask for Niederreiter, yes. If he has to sacrifice anything substantial, no. I don't expect us to overachieve next season, so I don't really see the point of trading away futures. Besides, what do you believe we are winning this year anyway?

 

[Canadienna]

Never build a team around a goaltender.

Are you advising me? I am not a GM nor in my post did I say you should. Or that we did.

Not sure what your point is.

 

[Guy Larose]

Our prospects tore up the WJC and are doing some incredible things with their home clubs. I’ve never seen a pool like this.

Plenty of players tore up the WJC and never had a career at the NHL level.

 

[cphabs]

Are you advising me? I am not a GM nor in my post did I say you should. Or that we did.

Not sure what your point is.

Ok

 

[cphabs]

Plenty of players tore up the WJC and never had a career at the NHL level.

Ok

 

[Milhouse40]

Price still got 5-6 years of hockey atleast if he stay healthly , also Weber and the way he plays can still hold for a couple of years also.
About byron... hes bottom 6 material , imo we should have trade him for better assets , if you remove Thompson our forward core is really young. Its to Bergevin to find more pieces and draft good players and find another goalie for the future. We still need a good backup at this point.

Even if wed get like a Panarin and a Lindholm and sell prospects and picks for this year , if habs still get to play Tampa we still get rekt in 5 games.

Just be patient , thats the problem with habs fans , always wanna win win win win win win win and never think more than 1 day forward. We been doing the same **** for 20 years . Also we regressed because of Bergevin dumb plan.

Also we are not a 1st pick away trade to be a contender.

Price probably got 5-6 years ahead of him but i assure you that year 1-2-3 will be better than 4-5-6.
Same can be said for Weber.

The day you removed or become less effective the part of your core in Weber, Price, Gallagher and Kotkaniemi.
There's the soft core also who are Domi, Drouin, Petry, Danault....but i won't consider them core players like Matthews, Rielly, Tavares, Marner.

I don't see any prospect coming up that's going to be a core members as Matthews, Tavares, Rielly and Marner other than Kotkaniemi and even there, not entirely sure of this. I see some soft core players coming up, that's it. So once Price/Weber decline or are remove, i don't see the Habs getting back up unless we draft very high in the next 2-3 years which seems don't likely (already screwed that up this year).

Being patient for something incredible is one thing, but that's not what we are talking about. Like the LD problem. Why be patient, is there a solution coming up? We need a big RW who can score, none are coming. We wait for what here. The problem won't fix itself. We wait cause we have a 5% chance to find what we're looking for with our 2nd round pick and be with the team in 3 years from now. While waiting, we lose our best remaining years of the biggest core player we have.

I don't want to compete with Tampa or Toronto this year, but we better suit up cause those teams aren't going anywhere for a couple of years and what we have now and even if you add up what's coming with our prospect, it won't be enough unless we get really lucky.

And i'm not talking about a top rentals either, that would be a dumb move.

 

[Favster]

I think the Habs are setting themselves up to try to contend in 2-3 years. We should have multiple young players on their ELC and if we use our cap space wisely, we could sign/trade for 1-2 high end players.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'm not the biggest MB fan, but I find people quick to judge. Droning for Sergachev was having people jump off bridges. What's it look like today? JD is one of our best scorers and the other one is sitting most nights. People were crucifying him for the Domi trade and now? I won't go through all the examples but I find that people jump to conclusions really quick when most people here can't evaluate players to save their lives.

He's been here 7 years. There's no jumping to any conclusions here. Stop using the hive mind strawman. You're replying to me, not the 'people' around saying this or that.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Price probably got 5-6 years ahead of him but i assure you that year 1-2-3 will be better than 4-5-6.
Same can be said for Weber.

The day you removed or become less effective the part of your core in Weber, Price, Gallagher and Kotkaniemi.
There's the soft core also who are Domi, Drouin, Petry, Danault....but i won't consider them core players like Matthews, Rielly, Tavares, Marner.

I don't see any prospect coming up that's going to be a core members as Matthews, Tavares, Rielly and Marner other than Kotkaniemi and even there, not entirely sure of this. I see some soft core players coming up, that's it. So once Price/Weber decline or are remove, i don't see the Habs getting back up unless we draft very high in the next 2-3 years which seems don't likely (already screwed that up this year).

Being patient for something incredible is one thing, but that's not what we are talking about. Like the LD problem. Why be patient, is there a solution coming up? We need a big RW who can score, none are coming. We wait for what here. The problem won't fix itself. We wait cause we have a 5% chance to find what we're looking for with our 2nd round pick and be with the team in 3 years from now. While waiting, we lose our best remaining years of the biggest core player we have.

I don't want to compete with Tampa or Toronto this year, but we better suit up cause those teams aren't going anywhere for a couple of years and what we have now and even if you add up what's coming with our prospect, it won't be enough unless we get really lucky.

And i'm not talking about a top rentals either, that would be a dumb move.

I mean thats why u try for the UFA market , we have money and we wont waste assets

but yeah having a dman on the first pair with 0 goal in 95 games sure dont help , we clearly need a real LHD

 

[Runner77]

You can call it what you want but when we're winning and keeping up with the likes of Winnipeg and TO then I read people saying trade Tatar etc, it really does sound dumb. For a living? Well no, people keep saying that our GM sucks and try to sound better than he is, so again, maybe people can think a little before they throw out stupidities? As much as people have put it in their heads that we're rebuilding, we're not.

I don't want to call it anything. We're all just fans here sharing opinions. We can't always agree and neither should we all be held to the impossible standard of someone working in the industry as a professional, is all.

Also, social media has its lot of hyperbole and fans don't always see eye to eye. It happens.

You'll also notice that not everyone is making blanket statements about the GM, a lot of us are able to recognize the good from the bad. Just cause some bring up instances of failed moves or incompetence, doesn't mean they want to sound better than he is. It only means that they expect him to do his job. And since it's a very public job, he'll obviously get criticized as he'll be given credit, depending on what the argument is about.

Finally, the GM never used "rebuild" for his plan. Nor did he provide a lot of details other than calling it a "reset", which implies a quick upgrade and turnaround -- and which implicitly involves rebuilding to some extent. It's not a full-out rebuild, we haven't seen a full roster turnover since last summer but there have been major moves.