Last season the asking price for Ott was Hodgson + 1st. What do you think asking prices are when there are maybe 4 sellers in the whole league?
I think the biggest factor is because most (if not all) teams are still in contention for the playoffs.
GM's like the players are extremely competitive and everyone wants to make the playoffs, it will damage the team's morale significantly if you trade away your good players for picks + prospects when your team is still in the hunt for the playoffs. People might suggest well even if the team makes the playoffs but they don't have a chance to win it all, but I don't think any players or GM's would believe that and they all realize once you make the playoffs then every team has a equal chance of winning the cup.
GM's like the players are extremely competitive and everyone wants to make the playoffs, it will damage the team's morale significantly if you trade away your good players for picks + prospects when your team is still in the hunt for the playoffs. People might suggest well even if the team makes the playoffs but they don't have a chance to win it all, but I don't think any players or GM's would believe that and they all realize once you make the playoffs then every team has a equal chance of winning the cup.
Just A Bit Outside
Playoffs??!
- Mar 6, 2010
- 16,617
- 15,622
I think it's actually quite easy to make a trade.
However, since both sides want to maximize their return and minimize their loss, it becomes a game of who is the better negotiator.
Maybe we should hire William Shatner. Seems to do a good job for Priceline.....
However, since both sides want to maximize their return and minimize their loss, it becomes a game of who is the better negotiator.
Maybe we should hire William Shatner. Seems to do a good job for Priceline.....
to kinda expand on the cap issue...
not every team has the same budget to work with. some owners are tight, some aren't.
not every team has the same budget to work with. some owners are tight, some aren't.
I always thought it was just hard to make a big trade.
There are many minor transactions going on.
There are many minor transactions going on.
Wheatley
We Rabite You
- Sep 24, 2010
- 2,230
- 0
If I was on the owner's side in these last CBA negotiations, I would have fought hard to get rid of these. Way too many players abusing the fact that their job is safe.
struckmatch
Registered User
Yup. The way he threw Hodgson under the bus immediately after he dealt him was pure media handling.
I'm sick of hearing about how hard it is to make a trade. He's paid to achieve results - not to try really hard and accomplish nothing.
I get that it's hard, but there comes a point where something must get done? Or I guess not, since this organization has done nothin for 40+ years, why not more of the same?
Stonz
Registered User
How many trades have been made this season?
How many of any significance?
Gillis is just telling it like it is.
How many of any significance?
Gillis is just telling it like it is.
struckmatch
Registered User
There have been 33 trades in this shortened season involving over 23 teams.
I understand there have not been any blockbusters, but come on. I understand trading is hard but seriously guys?
Insane how so many people resort to the "trading is hard okay!" rebuttal when Gillis is questioned. We know it's hard, or else any of us could be General Managers.
Get results, I'm sick of hearing stuff I already know, we know it's hard Mike, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.
Who gives a #### about Hodgson. Everyone talks about him like he was there well behaved daughters boyfriend. He did nothing for this organization. It is not like he traded away Jannick Hansen, Ryan Kesler, Burrows or even Bieksa. He played ok for a couple months, whined and was traded. It is over, be happy for him, he is a first line player due for a big raise on a non competitive team. That is what he wanted.
Gillis will make trades this deadline. It is called deadline day for a reason. He has made trades the last two deadlines and will do so again.
One last shot in the dark, i imagine this team has done a lot more in the last 40 years than you have done in your life, if you're going to hold your sports team to such high standards make sure to hold yourself to the same standards. Are you better than 30 of your peers at anything? This organization has been one of the best over the last 5 years anyone whining about not winning anything is trying to have their sports team fill a psychological void in their life. I hope Gillis make trades, the Canucks win the cup, and i feel great joy and satisfaction. In the meantime i hope our fans do not whine about not winning or accomplishing anything in 40 years when the team's only real purpose is to entertain us which they have done numerous times in the past 40 years.
struckmatch
Registered User
I'm pretty sure a lot of Canucks fans give a #### about Hodgson since he could help this team right now.
The entire Hodgson situation was a mishandling and giant mistake that falls mainly on the shoulders of Mike Gillis (Hodgson isn't innocent in this, but Gillis is the GM, he has to handle this situation much better)
The team's only real purpose is to entertain us? Wow! Thank you for enlightening me kind sir. Who need's standings, trophies, championships, awards, or anything like that? Abolish the playoffs while you're at it too!
You're right in a sense, but completely out to lunch in another. Yeah, professional sports is about entertainment, but for you to say that the sole purpose of the team? Incredibly ridiculous statement.
You know what fans find entertaining? Winning. Success drives professional sports franchises.
Mediocrity is so acceptable in Vancouver, it's seriously ridiculous how people don't want this team to push to do better. But it's okay I guess, at least the kids playing hockey during the intermissions are "entertaining"
opendoor
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2006
- 11,719
- 1,403
struckmatch
Registered User
Unsure if you've missed the last 2.5 seasons here or not...but I don't think many people care about winning games in February against Columbus, Pheonix, Calgary, and Dallas...I'm sure you can decipher that I meant championships...right?
The Canucks have been an entertaining team over the past few seasons, that can't be denied, but it seems as though it's too much to question as to why our General Manager has done nothing to improve the depth of this team when he knew of the injury situations leading into the season.
But wait, trading is hard so it's okay if he didn't. The deadline is coming, so I am holding out to reserve my final judgment for when that passes.
opendoor
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2006
- 11,719
- 1,403
Being the best team in hockey over a 2 year period but not winning the cup ≠ mediocrity, which is what you were suggesting people are accepting.
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 25,881
- 10,951
You pretty much hit on it within the first post. It's hard to make a trade, because it's real life and there are consequences...and GMs are very risk averse. No GM wants to be the guy who swung for the fences on a deal and struck out badly, because that gets you fired. Every GM wants to leave the bargaining table feeling like they've 'won' the trade. It makes the trade market very conservative in nature...it's why we typically see the same patterns of 'UFAs at the deadline for futures' and 'begrudgingly moving disgruntled players who demand a trade' or 'clearing the decks of salary'. Very little other than that.
It's obviously frustrating, but that's what owners want. They don't want some cowboy in there playing fast and loose with their expensive assets.
And you also have to remember that these are real people being traded, not stocks or whatever. These are people with lives, families, feelings, and egos of their own. Part of being an NHL GM, is managing personalities and fostering a positive atmosphere for your team.
I do think that there are times when stubbornness and ego wins the day, and GMs fall back on 'it's hard to make a trade' as an excuse for refusing to take a risk and deal with a clear problem on their team for fear they might end up 'losing' a deal...even if that makes their team better as a whole. And that is frustrating for sure. But it's definitely not 'easy' to make trades.
It's obviously frustrating, but that's what owners want. They don't want some cowboy in there playing fast and loose with their expensive assets.
And you also have to remember that these are real people being traded, not stocks or whatever. These are people with lives, families, feelings, and egos of their own. Part of being an NHL GM, is managing personalities and fostering a positive atmosphere for your team.
I do think that there are times when stubbornness and ego wins the day, and GMs fall back on 'it's hard to make a trade' as an excuse for refusing to take a risk and deal with a clear problem on their team for fear they might end up 'losing' a deal...even if that makes their team better as a whole. And that is frustrating for sure. But it's definitely not 'easy' to make trades.
The Horvatian One
228 LBS of Pain
- Aug 22, 2010
- 2,372
- 1
Answer this. Since Hodgson is son much of a messiah in your books, yeah he scores points for the love of God there are so many rookies tearing it up. He would get eaten alive in the West and spat back out. If it's not the entertainment point producing aspect of Hodgson brings I swear no one would care. It's because he produced that's why fans cares. Simply put you just said yourself championships are what matter. He's so bad defensively there would be a what's wrong with Hodgson thread. I guarantee it. I'm happy for the kid but everyone needs to stop acting butt hurt over someone who would have cost is a a series. I guarantee it.
If he's so much a saviour why are the Sabres so terrible let alone why is his line by far the worst in the league defensively. No one has been able to answer this and I thought he was supposed to be a two way forward withe elite offensive skills. Sure I see the elite offensive skills but the defensive part hell no. He looks like a chicken with its head cut off.
EDIT: typing on my phone is a lot harder... I'm sure a lot of you can relate...
struckmatch
Registered User
So bad defensively eh?
He's on one of the worst teams in the Eastern Conference
2012-2013 SEASON STATISTICS
GP: 31
G: 11
A: 15
P: 27
+/-: +1
The Sabres have a -15 goal differential. He is 2nd in icetime among forwards behind only Jason Pominville.
Yeah, he's brutal defensively. He's a + on a minus team playing big minutes.
People really just say things around here don't they?
Hodgson ***** and moaned and he wanted OUT. GMMG maximized the return and got what HE wanted in return. You might not like the return but who really cares about what you think anyways.
People like you just have this weird fantasy about how keeping Hodgson would magically make us a better team despite the fact he can't bloody play defense (or try to play defense). Yeah, like we can totally shelter him by only playing him in the ozone and only against 4th line competition and hope he will not be caught on the ice against the other team's 1st/2nd or even the 3rd line.
Mediocrity is not acceptable but when your 2nd,3rd line center and 2nd line forward and two 3rd line wingers are injured, it is reasonable to expect that you will have a hard time scoring. If we are sitting out of the playoff pictures, yeah go and whine. But claiming GMMG is failing because we are not dominant this season despite finishing with 2 PT in the last 2 year is bloody moronic.
Actually, I believe Nonis was known for saying "we're not gonna to make a trade for the sake of making a trade".
As for your "anything of value" comment - value is subjective. Honestly, what is either Luongo/Schneider's value to the Canucks as a backup on any given night? Much lower than as another team's starter. Dale Tallon should be fired on the grounds of how he handled Stephen Weiss, as should Gillis on how he's handled these two goaltenders.
It would be nice to see the NHL go outside the box for once and hire someone unrelated to hockey with a specific role as a GM, not just some other has-been that's already part of the members-only club. I'd love to see Wally Buono manage an NHL team.
GM's hand NTC's out, because players take a discount to get that guarantee. Get rid of NTC's, and salaries will inflate.
Exactly. Too many teams are in the playoff hunt. Only the Panthers are not within 6 points of a playoff spot. Not enough games remaining to separate the playoff teams from the lottery teams. Instead of a classic buyer-seller trade, everyone is looking for a 'hockey trade', a roster player that can help now. It's hard to find good fits that way.
opendoor
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2006
- 11,719
- 1,403
That'd make sense if +/- had much of anything to with defensive play. Kostitsyn is a +9 and makes plays like this:
struckmatch
Registered User
I said nothing about the return. Did you read my post? Did you see Kassian anywhere in there? Try understanding what I am saying, then respond.
Gillis said Hodgson complained right after he was dealt? How many examples have you seen where a GM deals a player, then basically bombards him in the media immediately after he trades the player?
Rare. Because it was planned. Gillis did that to save his own ass, and people like you just believe everything he says and this organization does is correct.
He would make us a better team, how does having a 27 point scorer in 31 games (where we are DYING for depth down the middle) not make us a better team?
Once again, I am posting these stats again since this "Hodgson is bad defensively myth is still out there"
President's trophies are not what the NHL is about, sure it's a great accomplishment, but it's about the Stanley Cup. You should know this by now.
We have injuries? I know we do. It's the GM's job to fill needs for his team, Gillis hasn't done that, at all - WHILE he has had an asset in goal that he should have trade before this season even started.
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