Why does Toews get more praise and attention than Kane?

[member 151739]

Because he has similar numbers to "bums" like Kessel and plays with a much more talented group of players in Chicago than most ppg guys could dream for. If he makes it, it's solely for his playoff hardware and nothing else.

Which is a big deal for the HOF.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

Kessel is ppg in playoffs, and hasn't had as much chance to shine as Kane did. Playing for the Hawks will do that for you. Go figure

As always, Kane is only good because he plays for the Hawks.

Also, Kane is leading the Hawks in ice time among forwards and has 11 more points than the Hawks' second leading scorer this season (Toews) only because he plays for the Hawks.

 

[WarriorofTime]

So you cant't come up with a counterpoint or stats to disprove my point, so you insult Kessel instead. Again Hawks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leafs and if they never made it further in the playoffs than the Leafs did in 2013 that would be embarrasing

Calling kessel an elite playoff performer is a joke when all of his production has come in the first round and he's played exactly 7 playoff games in about 6 years. So he averages about 1 playoff game a year and produced 6 points in those 7 games. Clearly one of the most clutch performers in the league.

 

[member 151739]

As always, Kane is only good because he plays for the Hawks.

Also, Kane is leading the Hawks in ice time among forwards and has 11 more points than the Hawks' second leading scorer this season (Toews) only because he plays for the Hawks.

What's funny is Bozak and JVR are better than Kane's linemates of the past couple seasons.

Kane's the best offensive forward on the Hawks, and Toews is the more complete player. That's about as simple as we can make this thread. Both are important.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Because he has similar numbers to "bums" like Kessel and plays with a much more talented group of players in Chicago than most ppg guys could dream for. If he makes it, it's solely for his playoff hardware and nothing else.

He has more career points in fewer games than Kessel and isn't a complete floater and actually balances for pucks and goes into corners. Kessel has had exactly 1 better season in their careers. Get out of here with this.

 

[Maplebeasts]

His choice, although apparently the Bruins were fine with it.

If Kessel couldn't deal with Julien, I have no idea why anyone thinks he would have any use for Joel Quenneville.

He's a defensive-minded coach and he also wants to roll four lines.

I don't think players have a crystal ball that tells them that their new team will suck for at least seven years after their arrival. Kessel also has no control over the construction of the team, so anybody who devalues him because the Leafs suck is just being unfair. Kessel left Boston because he didn't want to resign there, end of story, no issues with Julien from what I am aware of. If you could prove that he left because he couldn't handle Julien, I'll gladly accept your point.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

Because he has similar numbers to "bums" like Kessel and plays with a much more talented group of players in Chicago than most ppg guys could dream for. If he makes it, it's solely for his playoff hardware and nothing else.

Just curious because I can't remember... how often did Kris Versteeg and Phil Kessel share ice time together in Toronto?

And how long have you felt Kris Versteeg is more talented than James van Riemsdyk?

 

[Maplebeasts]

What's funny is Bozak and JVR are better than Kane's linemates of the past couple seasons.

JVR sure, but Bozak? Awwww hellll noo. His season high for points is 49 and he is an absolute possession killer (along with Phil and JVR) Ideally you have a guy like Bozak anchoring your third line, not centering your superstar winger

 

[member 151739]

JVR sure, but Bozak? Awwww hellll noo. His season high for points is 49 and he is an absolute possession killer (along with Phil and JVR) Ideally you have a guy like Bozak anchoring your third line, not centering your superstar winger

So you are saying Michal Handzus, Andrew Shaw, and present-day Brad Richards are better than Tyler Bozak?

You are incorrect.

 

[JaegerDice]

JVR sure, but Bozak? Awwww hellll noo. His season high for points is 49 and he is an absolute possession killer (along with Phil and JVR) Ideally you have a guy like Bozak anchoring your third line, not centering your superstar winger

I would trade you Handzus for Bozak in a heartbeat.

A heartbeat.

Anyway, isn't Kessel playing with Bozak in large part because he demands too. They're BFF right?

That's another extra complication/bit of drama that Kane doesn't bring with him. Which is nice.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I don't think players have a crystal ball that tells them that their new team will suck for at least seven years after their arrival. Kessel also has no control over the construction of the team, so anybody who devalues him because the Leafs suck is just being unfair. Kessel left Boston because he didn't want to resign there, end of story, no issues with Julien from what I am aware of. If you could prove that he left because he couldn't handle Julien, I'll gladly accept your point.

And be didn't re-sign because he couldn't buy into a team concept. Why else would anyone willingly want to leave one of the best teams in the league. There's a reason guys who played with and coached Kessel are coming out to bash him. When there's smoke theres fire. Kessel is a me-first guy and doesn't care about team success. He's the worst defensive player in the NHL. Take it to the bank.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Just curious because I can't remember... how often did Kris Versteeg and Phil Kessel share ice time together in Toronto?

And how long have you felt Kris Versteeg is more talented than James van Riemsdyk?

From what I remember, Versteeg didn't play often with Kessel. Talent that helps a player succeed is not only from players on his forward line, but dmen and the goalie as well. Kane gets to share ice with Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson, all of whom would be a significant upgrade on our top two pairings. And when Phil plays when Reimer goal tends, it's not like his defensive problems are helped at all by that either. Linemates, Kessel has the advantage the last two years, ONLY because of JVR, Bozak does not help him at all. In terms of other guys on the ice when they are playing Kane has the much better defensemen to mask his defensive flaws, and a goalie that is more likely to bale him out when Reimer plays (which isn't too uncommon)

 

[member 151739]

From what I remember, Versteeg didn't play often with Kessel. Talent that helps a player succeed is not only from players on his forward line, but dmen and the goalie as well. Kane gets to share ice with Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson, all of whom would be a significant upgrade on our top two pairings. And when Phil plays when Reimer goal tends, it's not like his defensive problems are helped at all by that either. Linemates, Kessel has the advantage the last two years, ONLY because of JVR, Bozak does not help him at all. In terms of other guys on the ice when they are playing Kane has the much better defensemen to mask his defensive flaws, and a goalie that is more likely to bale him out when Reimer plays (which isn't too uncommon)

You are wrong. Bozak is getting underrated here. Would love to have Bozak as Kane's center compared to what he's had in the past couple seasons.

 

[alexny]

I don't think players have a crystal ball that tells them that their new team will suck for at least seven years after their arrival. Kessel also has no control over the construction of the team, so anybody who devalues him because the Leafs suck is just being unfair. Kessel left Boston because he didn't want to resign there, end of story, no issues with Julien from what I am aware of. If you could prove that he left because he couldn't handle Julien, I'll gladly accept your point.

Okay, I'll bite, why didn't Kessel want to resign in Boston, then, if he got along so well with Julien?

And there are plenty of articles about Julien benching Kessel in the 2008 playoffs and Kessel having an issue with it that a simple Google search turns up.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/bruins/2009-09-19-kessel-deal_N.htm

 

[Trottier]

Kane is so much better than Toews it's not even worth debating.

But there you are, debating it.

But everyone (mostly media) praise Toews and never do the same for Kane.

How can one sentence carry so many falsehoods? First, NHL people (read: those who know more about the game than you or I) praise Toews, not simply media people or fans. Second, everyone praises Kane. Rightly so, in both cases.

Kane puts up more points....

Which makes him "better" for your fantasy league team. Unfortunately, some (perhaps including you) equate that alone with superiority. Some mistake fantasy "values" with real life NHL hockey values. Insufferably so.

These are two superb and very different players. Hawks are soooo lucky to have both and will be competitive for many years with them healthy and around. they are worth every penny.

And your assessment of J. Toews is silly.

 

[Maplebeasts]

And be didn't re-sign because he couldn't buy into a team concept. Why else would anyone willingly want to leave one of the best teams in the league. There's a reason guys who played with and coached Kessel are coming out to bash him. When there's smoke theres fire. Kessel is a me-first guy and doesn't care about team success. He's the worst defensive player in the NHL. Take it to the bank.

No player who's been with him has come out to say anything. It's all Watters, Wilson and Feschuk. Watters was fired by the Leafs years ago and it's so painfully obvious he's still bitter about it, Ron Wilson was a terrible coach who is just trying to save face right now. Funny he didn't show up until this whole ****storm was started by Feschuk. Feschuk has always had problems with Phil and has always published articles bashing him. He asked Phil an insulting question and was rightfully called an idiot. Again, do you have inside access to the Leafs dressing room? Do you know what his teammates and management really think? Is there any concrete proof that he has a terrible attitude? If not then you can't leap to conclusions like this. Hell is anything I don't think your boy Kane is a sterling example of character, y'know after punching a Buffalo cab driver and getting piss drunk and passing out in a Wisconsin bar.

 

[FirewagonChange]

You don't make it into the HHOF because of intangibles, that's just hockey nerd talk.

 

[member 151739]

You don't make it into the HHOF because of intangibles, that's just hockey nerd talk.

It actually helps. Toews is known as a great captain and leader. Like it or not, that will help with his eventual Hall of Fame induction. Of course, the Selke, Conn Smythe, and 2 Cups also speak for themselves.

 

[Maplebeasts]

You are wrong. Bozak is getting underrated here. Would love to have Bozak as Kane's center compared to what he's had in the past couple seasons.

Trust me. If you look on the Leafs boards everyone trashes him because they know he doesn't belong near a top line. Where do you see Bozak realistically in terms of production without JVR and Kessel?

 

[Maplebeasts]

It actually helps. Toews is known as a great captain and leader. Like it or not, that will help with his eventual Hall of Fame induction. Of course, the Selke, Conn Smythe, and 2 Cups also speak for themselves.

Yes, Toews is a worthy Hofamer. Finally something we can agree on.

 

[member 151739]

Yes, Toews is a worthy Hofamer. Finally something we can agree on.

Trust me. If you look on the Leafs boards everyone trashes him because they know he doesn't belong near a top line. Where do you see Bozak realistically in terms of production without JVR and Kessel?

He doesn't belong on the top line. But he's much better than Shaw and Handzus.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Okay, I'll bite, why didn't Kessel want to resign in Boston, then, if he got along so well with Julien?

And there are plenty of articles about Julien benching Kessel in the 2008 playoffs and Kessel having an issue with it that a simple Google search turns up.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/bruins/2009-09-19-kessel-deal_N.htm

Ok. The issue is that we are still unsure of why he left Boston. If finances are ruled out, then there is still a variety of reasons for why he'd leave. We can't just pick whatever reason we want to fit our narrative to make a point.

 

[MilanKraft*]

It actually helps. Toews is known as a great captain and leader. Like it or not, that will help with his eventual Hall of Fame induction. Of course, the Selke, Conn Smythe, and 2 Cups also speak for themselves.

So basically a micheal Peca. ..and all those other non HOFEMERS who won selke and were good team leaders.

Put him on buffalo and he never wins anything in his life.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Blackhawks Captain
2 Olympic Gold medals
Selke caliber center

 

[member 151739]

So basically a micheal Peca. ..and all those other non HOFEMERS who won selke and were good team leaders.

Put him on buffalo and he never wins anything in his life.

Toews would probably win a Hart.