Why did the Sharks fire Sutter and Lombardi?

[DystopianTierney]

Dombardi traded Larionov for "don't want to be here" Ray Sheppard.

I think he also got Craig Janney whose toughness makes Marleau look like Shelley.

He drafted Nazarov in the 1st round. Also Viktor "head case" Kozlov. He was also involved in the "Finnish draft" who had Riihijarvi as the 1st round pick.

When he traded for Marchment, he allowed Tampa the option to swap 1st round picks. So they did and Tampa gets the 1st pick overall which was Lecavalier.

He traded for Selanne who was supposed to be the final piece. But it seemed to really piss off Nolan who is cranky anyways. Selanne sucked as a Shark and Nolan was pissed at management.

He said Al Sims is his coach, then fires him like a week later.

Since Lombardi left...

Since 2003, the Sharks rank second in the NHL in games played (6003) by players selected in the NHL Draft, despite holding the lowest average drafting position (135.22, 30th) of all NHL teams.

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=721033

Great job in LA, but he hasn't been missed in SJ.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Excuses!

 

[WantonAbandon]

Since Lombardi left...

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=721033

Great job in LA, but he hasn't been missed in SJ.

This is a big reason why certain people have to get off of Burkes and the rest of the Sharks scouts backs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is a big reason why certain people have to get off of Burkes and the rest of the Sharks scouts backs.

That's not a good enough reason to get off their backs about the misses that they've had. They've had some very big and very critical misses and shortcomings they've yet to address. Just because they have positives doesn't mean they're beyond reproach.

 

[Sleepy]

But the kings always play on their toes, not unlike the Sutter era sharks except with far higher talent.

The sharks today are always saturated with more than enough talent but almost never play with that kind of urgency. Certainly never when they need to.

We're cherry-picking a bit here. You could make the same argument for Vancouver who went with the ball-buster after a nice-guy AV. Didn't work out for them, and did work out for the Rangers who went the opposite direction.

Since 2003, the Sharks rank second in the NHL in games played (6003) by players selected in the NHL Draft, despite holding the lowest average drafting position (135.22, 30th) of all NHL teams.

Great job in scouting and drafting under DW. Some of us might critique that low drafting position as DW giving away 2nd round picks like candy for terrible 6th/7th dmen and 4th line/ahler forwards.

 

[dwood16]

Well done! That was very extensive and will hopefully put this thread to rest. No GM is perfect and a lot of time luck is involved. Players, Coaches and Management all evolve.

You are right that no GM is perfect. Hockey is arguably more chance than skill to begin with. However, while Lombardi has made mistakes like ALL gm's he has also made the brilliant moves that are not the norm, that have gotten his team the cup.

 

[SC2008]

Lombardi's reputation was pretty tarnished during / after the Nabokov and Stuart contract holdouts. I thought they had a pretty solid D on paper, but missing Stuart was a big setback.

Lombardi then remained in the GM "wilderness" as a Philly pro scout for 3 years. I guess LA had potential, but it was nowhere near the playoff map in 2006.

In fact, the Doughty contract holdout had eerie echoes of Stuart / Nabby, but Deano pivoted off of it into positive territory. Probably used some hard-learned lessons.

There's one positive from the Sharks' 2002-03 season that I still remember to this day. Cap Raeder coached one NHL game, between Sutter's departure and Wilson's arrival. And that game made Cap Raeder the winningest coach in NHL hockey history: one game, one win, resulting in a points percentage of 1.000.

Def the holdouts threw everything off. To be fair, under the old CBA you had big name holdouts every year. Some players missing a large portion or even entire seasons. Yashin, Peca, Federov, Nedved, Neidermeyer....def not isolated to the Sharks.

 

[SC2008]

Sharks were changing owners. They also wanted a new style of play. They said they were going to copy the Ottawa Senators model. They managed to do that, lots of regular season success, no Cup for San Jose.

Sutter style was out, Ron Wilson style in.

Dombardi didn't want Sutter gone and didn't want to be GM anymore. Also, Dombardi was a lousy GM while he was with the Sharks. Every year there were players who he would sign late, messing with the team chemistry. He managed to make probably every mistake possible as a GM while he was here.

I think the new owners wanted Marleau to be the centerpiece. I think that was probably a mistake.

"Dombardi" Lol, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Back in the sj-sharks.com forum days, I remember defending Lombardi tooth and nail.

If anyone caches, just search:

LET HIM FINISH!!!

 

[SC2008]

Al Sims.

Lol. I'd put George Kingston right up there too.

Ron Wilson?! Obviously, some of these younger fans are spoiled and never suffered through a 71 loss season.

 

[SC2008]

I talk about a trade between Carolina, Edmonton and LA. - Where is Doug Wilson, San Jose in any of that?

The were busy winning the President's Trophy. Unfortunately, faced Anaheim who only was an 8th seed because of Neidermeyer missing a large portion of the season.

Williams was injured twice that season, scoring in only 2 of the 12 games (4 pts total) he played for the Kings. Would have been a terrible trade for what the sharks needs. Hell, Kings had nothing to play for and their fans were pissed, trading for an "injure-prone" player.

 

[SC2008]

Since Lombardi left...

http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=721033

Great job in LA, but he hasn't been missed in SJ.

I guess you can't miss what you never had. A Stanley Cup.

 

[SC2008]

Lombardi was a second-class (or tier) GM in his tenure with the Sharks. He assembled a solid team, but had a few key flaws that essentially became his downfall. From what I am able to recall, his weakness was with holdouts. He could assemble a great team on the ice and on its the farm, but he had an abhorrence of signing players on time if it meant he would over pay them even in the slightest--and this was in the pre-cap era. Around the time of his firing there was even a rumor that he would take bets on how long he would hold out on his RFA.The new ownership almost certainly have had a impact with holdouts as has been mentioned (money, money, money), but in the end a GM has to find a way to work with his players and Lombardi didn't do that.

At the same time the NHL was full of players that were holding out during his reign as GM; looking back at it he may have been just caught in the cross-fire, but in his case the cross-fire got him. That is why he eventually was placed on the chopping block. Certainly his candor (as mentioned in the Purdy article) didn't help though. Through his experience with Philadelphia and being given a second chance in Los Angeles (which was going to happen, someone who can assemble a team like he did was not just going to fade away) he elevated himself into becoming a top-tier GM, much like his mentors Bill Torrey and Lou Lamoriello.

I think his comment about the Sharks of '03 can now be a comment about himself as well, "When you're rounding third and find you can't get to home plate, sometimes you have to take a step back and return to second base." He was fired from the Sharks, took a step back for a while and finally got a Cup with LA--almost certainly one of more to come.

Good post. Def agree his time in Philly helped. At the very least it gave him insight into Richards and Carter, looking past their party boy image.

To add some color on the "overpayments", San Jose wasn't the Country Club atmosphere that it is today. No one wanted to play here. At times he even had to get creative--he was the first to "trade" a pick for the rights to negotiate with Suter. Pissed the NHL off. Now everyone does it (ala Boyle trade to NYI)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sharks-sign-suter-for-10-million/

He built LA in similar fashion. Overpaying for vets, for the sake of building a true farm, developing a franchise goalie (Quick/Nabakov), bringing in a strong coaching staff, then going for broke by trading for an elite winger (Carter/Selanne).

If the Kings missed the playoffs in 2012, good chance he would've been fired.

Fine line between success and failure.

 

[Patty Ice]

At times he even had to get creative--he was the first to "trade" a pick for the rights to negotiate with Suter. Pissed the NHL off. Now everyone does it (ala Boyle trade to NYI)

If memory serves correctly, that was a Wilson brainchild that Lombardi executed. It was part of the reason I was happy that Wilson took over after Lombardi was fired (I was a Deano supporter). The Sharks were getting a guy who could think outside the box.

 

[SnarkAttack]

It's easier to be a great coach/gm when you have top 3 C, D, and G on your roster. Give us Quick and see how many cups we would have won.

Doughty/Quick are top 3 in their positions, and I really think Kopitar is as well. For someone who has been clearly the best forward on (probably) 2 cup winning teams I have no clue why he isn't praised as much as Toews for all he does.