Why did the Leafs lose to the Flyers in 2003?

[deletethis]

A bad pinch by Brian Leetch.

oops... Wrong year. I barely remember this series. I have a distant memory of Flyers' players roofing it over Ed Belfour's left shoulder on the short side several times. Maybe that's the other series too.

 

[ACC1224]

heavier?

Sundin 6'5" 230 ---- Roenick 6'1" 205
Mogilny 6'0" 210 --- Recchi 5'10" 195
Nolan 6'1" 215 ------ Amonte 6'0" 200

Reichel 5'10" 180 --- Primeau 6'5" 220
Roberts 6'2" 215 ---- Gagne 6'1" 195
Tucker 5'10" 180 --- Kapanen 5'10" 185

Antropov 6'6" 245 -- Handzus 6'5" 215
Renberg 6'2" 235 --- Leclair 6'3" 225
Hoglund 6'3" 215 --- Williams 6'1" 185

Green 6'1" 205 ----- Lapointe 5'9" 190
Fitzgerald 6'0" 190 - Murray 5'9" 180
Domi 5'10" 215 ----- Brashear 6'3" 235


Kaberle 6'1" 210 ----- Johnsson 6'1" 195
Svehla 6'0" 210 ------ Desjardins 6'1" 205

McCabe 6'2" 220 ---- Ragnarsson 6'1" 215
Wesley 6'1" 205 ------ Weinrich 6'1' 205

Lumme 6'1" 210 ----- Yushkevich 5'11" 210
Berg 6'3" 215 -------- Therien 6'5" 235

Playing 'heavier' is a hockey term, it doesn't mean weight.
You'll see this if you watch the Leafs against Columbus if hockey ever returns.

 

[PromisedLand]

Flyers were heavier and had slightly more skill. Tough combination to beat.

Being "heavy" most think means big and tall; it is not about that it is about "grit" , "determination" and "heart"

It is not about the size of the dog in the fight; it is about the size of the fight in the dog

Nylander and Matthews are both pretty strong; but play extremely SOFT esepcially Nylander; Matthews had started body checking towards the end of the season at least

Nylander would lose the board battle or puck battle against Gallagher who is smaller than Nylander for example

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Being "heavy" most think means big and tall; it is not about that it is about "grit" , "determination" and "heart"

It is not about the size of the dog in the fight; it is about the size of the fight in the dog

Nylander and Matthews are both pretty strong; but play extremely SOFT esepcially Nylander; Matthews had started body checking towards the end of the season at least

Nylander would lose the board battle or puck battle against Gallagher who is smaller than Nylander for example

I'm going to go out on a limb and say most people don't think heavy means tall

 

[deletethis]

I think Owen Nolan and Gary Roberts were playing so banged up that they were near useless.

 

[MSZ]

I think Owen Nolan and Gary Roberts were playing so banged up that they were near useless.

Roberts wasn't the same guy after the 2002 run. Both of his shoulders went out and he was in total beast mode that year.

 

[zeke]

Playing 'heavier' is a hockey term, it doesn't mean weight.
You'll see this if you watch the Leafs against Columbus if hockey ever returns.

And who played "heavy" on those leafs and flyers teams?

 

[Mickey Marner]

C'mon guys, that era of Leaf teams were plenty physical/gritty/heavy/etc. It's skill that they lacked. We have the opposite problem now lol.

 

[Nineteen67]

They just had more firepower.

Roenick - Sundin
Recchi - Mogilny
Amonte - Nolan

Primeau - Reichel
LeClair- Roberts
Gagne - Tucker

Handzus - Green
Williams - Antropov
Kapanen - Renberg

Lapointe - Fitzgerald
Brashear- Domi
Sacco - Hoglund


Skill > Grit

their skill had grit as well.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

hilarious how leafs fans rewrite history to always remember the leafs as being too soft.

Funny how you pull height and weight statistics to compare which team plays heavier.

Do you remember that series? I vaguely remember it but I doubt you remember "history" well enough to say everyone is making things up to make the Leafs look bad. But you keep doing you.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don’t remember thinking the Leafs should have won that series. During that whole era they were always just a little short

 

[ACC1224]

hilarious how leafs fans rewrite history to always remember the leafs as being too soft.

Can you highlight who said they were too soft?

 

[Nineteen67]

That was the series Tucker scrambled JR's marbles?

It was Kappy’s father and it was beautiful. Tucker was crazy, the crowd went crazy and Sami went to la la land.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

I don’t remember thinking the Leafs should have won that series. During that whole era they were always just a little short

IMO that 2004 team had it all. Just too many injuries came before and during playoff time. Acquiring Francis to play on the 4th line was stupid as hell though, like acquiring Plekanec to play on the 4th line level stupid.

 

[The Iceman]

IMO that 2004 team had it all. Just too many injuries come before and during playoff time. Acquiring Francis to play on the 4th line was stupid as hell though, like acquiring Plekanec to play on the 4th line level stupid.

Plekanec was centre depth. I forget who was injured but he had to play up in the lineup in the playoffs=not so stupid

 

[ACC1224]

It was Kappy’s father and it was beautiful. Tucker was crazy, the crowd went crazy and Sami went to la la land.

Yep, was right below me. Not long after Roenick scored and the air came out of the building. I took a Flyer fan to that game, he let out a yell when they scored but no one could figure out it was him lol. Didn't realize it at the time but that was the last good hockey I'd watch for a very long time.

 

[zeke]

C'mon guys, that era of Leaf teams were plenty physical/gritty/heavy/etc. It's skill that they lacked. We have the opposite problem now lol.

it's hilarious. that leafs team was all heart and grit, and we're mocked for their lack of skill in comparison to teams like the Sens.

but now leafs fans are convincing themselves that their weakness was not being physical enough.

leaf fans never change. the answer is always, always MOAAAARRRR GRITTTTT.

 

[zeke]

Funny how you pull height and weight statistics to compare which team plays heavier.

Do you remember that series? I vaguely remember it but I doubt you remember "history" well enough to say everyone is making things up to make the Leafs look bad. But you keep doing you.

oh yeah I remember it.

the funny thing is that it is much more true that it was the flyers ability to play FAST that killed us, not HEAVY.

Recchi/Amonte/Gagne/Williams/Kapanen on the wings, and Roenick and Primeau could still fly at Center at that point too. Tons of speed.

 

[Kurtz]

And who played "heavy" on those leafs and flyers teams?

A lot of guys, but Primeau in particular was a beast physically.

 

[zeke]

A lot of guys, but Primeau in particular was a beast physically.

yep. fast and tough. he was a beast. and while not the same as when he was younger, Roenick was still pretty gritty then too.

and yushky/therien was a very physical 3rd pair. and of course Brashear was a bigtime goon on the 4th line.

that there was their physicality.

they also had some other guys with size who weren't very physical like leclair and handzus.

 

[Nineteen67]

it's hilarious. that leafs team was all heart and grit, and we're mocked for their lack of skill in comparison to teams like the Sens.

but now leafs fans are convincing themselves that their weakness was not being physical enough.

leaf fans never change. the answer is always, always MOAAAARRRR GRITTTTT.

I don’t remember anyone mocking those teams for lack of grit or skill. Sundin, Tucker, Molgilny, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Nolan, McCabe, Quinn. They were fun to watch and hard not to like.
At least we have memories.

 

[Kurtz]

yep. fast and tough. he was a beast. and while not the same as when he was younger, Roenick was still pretty gritty then too.

and yushky/therien was a very physical 3rd pair. and of course Brashear was a bigtime goon on the 4th line.

that there was their physicality.

they also had some other guys with size who weren't very physical like leclair and handzus.

Leclair and Handzus didn't hit you, but they were very physical - they went to the net and made you try to move their butts. That was extremely physically taxing for their opponent. Leclair especially was physically taxing to play against. The Line Of Doom wasn't just about Lindros - it was about 3 massive guys that were all hard to handle physically, even if they didn't hit you that often.

Anyway, both the 2003 and 2004 series were physical bloodbaths. I don't remember either team having much of an edge in that department.

 

[ACC1224]

One thing everyone can agree on is this version of the Leafs would shit themselves at the thought of stepping on the ice with either of these teams from 04.
Amazing how much the game has changed.

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t remember anyone mocking those teams for lack of grit or skill. Sundin, Tucker, Molgilny, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Nolan, McCabe, Quinn. They were fun to watch and hard not to like.
At least we have memories.

It's always the mysterious bucket of 'Leaf fans' that seem to carry these views.

 

[zeke]

One thing everyone can agree on is this version of the Leafs would shit themselves at the thought of stepping on the ice with either of these teams from 04.
Amazing how much the game has changed.

funny.

Cup champs:

2002: Red Wings
2003: Devils
2004: Lightning

all of them very fast, none of them especially physical.