Who's to blame for the Coyotes woes?

[Name Nameless]

Hi there. I have been trying to follow your team from far away (call me a bandwagoner;-)). But one thing you don't seem to discuss so much here, is, you have an owner who don't want to (at best) spend to the cap. With a young team, not spending to the cap could of course make sense. But is it really so weird a low-cap team don't match up the cap teams? That money your team don't spend is not spent on experience. OK, you got Stepan, but he was a player the Rangers wanted to move- they really are a cap team, and he was a player with a contract more expensive than his true value justified. Given the scouts new but present ability to find gold at 7OA (Clayton Calder ;-) ) I don't think it was right to trade for Stepan, even if he hopefully still can prove me wrong on that one. Anyhow, it is another tank-year. From what I can see on TV, there are still a crowd there? It may be misleading, but comparing with, say, Anaheim, it's not bad at all? And you do have good youth. If you survive, and get a good player in 2018, while the youth get better, it's not like you can never be a contender? And it is the goalie-issue. A good goalie can not win you a cup anymore IMHO, but bad goalies can surely ruin it. So, Raanta came back, and you improved. Do your owner give up?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

the team needs som goal scorers on the team. seems all we have is Keller, Perlini and everyone struggles to find the back of the net, there are so many chances in the game and they always come up empty and the other team seems like always scores on theirs it is demoralizing.

At this point i really dont care anymore, im watching only for a few players and looking forward to losing lottery

Sure we get chances under this system, but ask yourself how often they are from a rebound (where someone is actually around the net and can score), or have a screen that debilitates the oppositions goalie and finally a redirect because there was actually a player with net presence? One and done exciting hockey!

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Hi there. I have been trying to follow your team from far away (call me a bandwagoner;-)). But one thing you don't seem to discuss so much here, is, you have an owner who don't want to (at best) spend to the cap. With a young team, not spending to the cap could of course make sense. But is it really so weird a low-cap team don't match up the cap teams? That money your team don't spend is not spent on experience. OK, you got Stepan, but he was a player the Rangers wanted to move- they really are a cap team, and he was a player with a contract more expensive than his true value justified. Given the scouts new but present ability to find gold at 7OA (Clayton Calder ;-) ) I don't think it was right to trade for Stepan, even if he hopefully still can prove me wrong on that one. Anyhow, it is another tank-year. From what I can see on TV, there are still a crowd there? It may be misleading, but comparing with, say, Anaheim, it's not bad at all? And you do have good youth. If you survive, and get a good player in 2018, while the youth get better, it's not like you can never be a contender? And it is the goalie-issue. A good goalie can not win you a cup anymore IMHO, but bad goalies can surely ruin it. So, Raanta came back, and you improved. Do your owner give up?

Our owner does not have deep pockets. If you look at our expenditures and cap numbers, we are the lowest in the league by far - and it's not a mistake. Barroway is highly leveraged already from his purchase of the team from the IceArizona partnership and he simply does not have the money to do anything more than ride the cap floor.

We have the same hard core of people showing up to games - perhaps a few hundred smaller now with the continued struggles and intrigue - but as long as the huge cloud of uncertainty over the franchise sticks around we're not going to be able to do much to increase it. Certainly not if the team continues to be historically terrible.

 

[pheasant]

Our owner does not have deep pockets. If you look at our expenditures and cap numbers, we are the lowest in the league by far - and it's not a mistake. Barroway is highly leveraged already from his purchase of the team from the IceArizona partnership and he simply does not have the money to do anything more than ride the cap floor.

We have the same hard core of people showing up to games - perhaps a few hundred smaller now with the continued struggles and intrigue - but as long as the huge cloud of uncertainty over the franchise sticks around we're not going to be able to do much to increase it. Certainly not if the team continues to be historically terrible.

I can't imagine that the season continues to go this badly. Raanta will put some good games together soon, and some of the forwards will start to score closer to their normal shooting percentage. The players will dig themselves out.

It's so sad that this season started this way. The team looked ready to do some real damage. The last thing 'Yotes fans deserve is to have more concerns about ownership and financials because of this.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Hi there. I have been trying to follow your team from far away (call me a bandwagoner;-)). But one thing you don't seem to discuss so much here, is, you have an owner who don't want to (at best) spend to the cap. With a young team, not spending to the cap could of course make sense. But is it really so weird a low-cap team don't match up the cap teams? That money your team don't spend is not spent on experience. OK, you got Stepan, but he was a player the Rangers wanted to move- they really are a cap team, and he was a player with a contract more expensive than his true value justified. Given the scouts new but present ability to find gold at 7OA (Clayton Calder ;-) ) I don't think it was right to trade for Stepan, even if he hopefully still can prove me wrong on that one. Anyhow, it is another tank-year. From what I can see on TV, there are still a crowd there? It may be misleading, but comparing with, say, Anaheim, it's not bad at all? And you do have good youth. If you survive, and get a good player in 2018, while the youth get better, it's not like you can never be a contender? And it is the goalie-issue. A good goalie can not win you a cup anymore IMHO, but bad goalies can surely ruin it. So, Raanta came back, and you improved. Do your owner give up?

Welcome. Where are you from? Our market, as it presently stands, cannot support the team. The arena is a long, miserable drive from where most of the affluent people live. They get minimal attendance at midweek games cause few people are willing to make the miserable drive. I know this because I make the drive. The team can not afford a higher payroll.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

I don't know who the hell is responsible for any of this but I can tell you that when I changed my personal mailbox password to 'Koreis02' in 2004, I was hoping for a better future.

And by 'better future', I actually mean 'any reasonably winning future' because I was not that greedy at that time.

I am even less greedy now. But this Phoenix/Arizona Coyotes can go down next to any Greek Mythology stories.

Right now, it is 1:12am where I type. If OEL or Chayka need any help in getting motivated, tell them to give me a ring.

Let's get Zeus involved if it is what it takes. I am sure he can be a good penalty killer if politely asked.

 

[SniperHF]

For bringing up Koreis you get a like. It's Thursday there right? #ThrowbackThursday

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

For bringing up Koreis you get a like. It's Thursday there right? #ThrowbackThursday

Thank you Sniper. It certainly is Thursday here and Brexit is still happening.

Let's bring back some 'peyote coyote' on that #ThrowbackThursday

 

[cobra427]

I liked the off season changes = brand new culture and was pretty excited to see the infusion of talent with a fast paced puck pursuit game. Adding Stepan was needed to give some experience at C. Adding Hjalmarsson was fantastic. Raanta was probably the best option at G (who knew Dominque would forget how to goalie over the summer). Heading into the season Chayka addressed the need for a top 5 RHD by trading for Demers. Biggest miss was not replacing Vrbata. Certainly the coaching choice looks like a major error right now.

Hard to see how the team gets out of this without trading a major player (OEL, Domi or Stepan).

I liked the additions of Stepan/Hammer and Raanta. I didn't like the subtractions of Smith/Verby/Tip. I didn't think their was a culture problem in the room related to specific players or the coach. I am sure many were sick of losing though. It looks like we lost our vet leadership group in Doan/Smith/Verby. No one has stepped up yet to assume those roles

If we kept Smith, we would have had 2 solid goal tenders, what's wrong with that? I know letting Smith go was about money, but this is what you get. If we kept Verby, we would have had a solid 2 way winger that produces consistently. The biggest mistake was the coaching change, we should have kept Tip or hired an experienced vet NHL head coach.

These are Chayka/Barroway money and management mistakes that will need to be fixed. By the time the team fires Tocc, hires a new coach, signs a vet winger like Verby, and resigns Raanta, they will be close to the same position financially if they had kept the original coach and players. Our new owner and young GM are finding out they have a lot to learn.

I still hope the team some how turns it around but the team looks so sloppy, I just don't know if it happens without a major shake up. It is also hard to evaluate players in the current situation, who to keep, who to trade, while the value of every player right now, except for Keller, is lower.

 

[zz]

Honestly, hindsight is easy, but I don't think any of us predicted the team to be THIS bad. For this reason alone I can't really blame ownership and management. I was actually excited about this team, and was planning on attending a few games this season after a 2-year hiatus.

I think it's a combination of things - poor goaltending, atrocious D, young offense, a head coach who might be in over his head, and lack of leadership after losing Doan.

Now everything is so bad, original reasons don't matter. We need to hit the reset button, and it starts with a coaching change.

 

[Name Nameless]

Welcome. Where are you from? Our market, as it presently stands, cannot support the team. The arena is a long, miserable drive from where most of the affluent people live. They get minimal attendance at midweek games cause few people are willing to make the miserable drive. I know this because I make the drive. The team can not afford a higher payroll.

Yeah, I understand the arena-issue. I'm a Norwegian by the way, live in Oslo. The big team here is of course the NYR, with a kid from this town on their team, but that's a team with to much money and rich fans for me- and I try to not join all the others from here rooting for the Rangers, it almost seems like cheating. But you can improve, I am happy with that. You don't have to be bad. ;-)

And now beating the Canadiens, the team with the worst fans IMHO. Fun. Actually tried watching them in the last play-offs, and realized I hated the guys. Thanks for bringing them down. That's what you can do with a real goalie, when your skaters score more goals!

I disagree with everybody always saying "fire the coach" when things are bad. Yeah, "change the system", that would work- and I guess the easy way to change a system, is to fire a coach. But I disagree with the thinking systems can only be changed by firing a coach. Coyotes problem isn't the coach, sadly, but lack of experience. If the team survives for a few more years, that can change. And the results with an actual NHL-goalie are "normal", right. They are not horrible at all.

And yeah. I understand the situation is dire. If the owner is that worn down, if the money-bin is empty, the relocation discussions will reemerge, huh. But let's hope for the best. Never been to Phoenix. So when I think free buses too and from the arena on gamedays from some more central place, I seriously don't know what I'm talking about. Is it really that few people?

 

[zz]

So when I think free buses too and from the arena on gamedays from some more central place, I seriously don't know what I'm talking about. Is it really that few people?

So, to give you an idea of what transportation looks like in Phoenix:

- Gila River Arena is located 25km west of downtown Phoenix.
- Many fans live on the East side (Scottsdale / Tempe / Mesa / Chandler / Gilbert). These cities are located 30 to 60km away from Gila River arena.
- Riding public transport from downtown requires 2 buses and takes 2 hours one way. Buses come every 30 to 45 minutes. On the way back service stops at 9pm. There is no way to get back. Riding a bus from the east side would take about 3 hours one way, with no way back. Point being - public transport might as well not exist.
- Driving in 5pm traffic to get to a weeknight game takes 1.5 to 2 hours from east phoenix. I just did it last week to attend a Cardinals football game on a Thursday (same location as Gila River arena). It took us 2 hours to get there from Indian School and 44th St, 30 minutes on the way back. That was a one-time thing, and still, I will never, EVER do this again.

So here you go. I've followed the team for 20 years and there is no way I will put myself through the hell of getting to a weeknight game, except maybe for playoffs. I love hockey, but a 6 hour commitment after a long day of work is not my idea of fun. Now add the team's ineptitude for the past 15 years... I'm amazed they still find a way to attract more than 5,000 people.

 

[Name Nameless]

So, to give you an idea of what transportation looks like in Phoenix:

- Gila River Arena is located 25km west of downtown Phoenix.
- Many fans live on the East side (Scottsdale / Tempe / Mesa / Chandler / Gilbert). These cities are located 30 to 60km away from Gila River arena.
- Riding public transport from downtown requires 2 buses and takes 2 hours one way. Buses come every 30 to 45 minutes. On the way back service stops at 9pm. There is no way to get back. Riding a bus from the east side would take about 3 hours one way, with no way back. Point being - public transport might as well not exist.
- Driving in 5pm traffic to get to a weeknight game takes 1.5 to 2 hours from east phoenix. I just did it last week to attend a Cardinals football game on a Thursday (same location as Gila River arena). It took us 2 hours to get there from Indian School and 44th St, 30 minutes on the way back. That was a one-time thing, and still, I will never, EVER do this again.

So here you go. I've followed the team for 20 years and there is no way I will put myself through the hell of getting to a weeknight game, except maybe for playoffs. I love hockey, but a 6 hour commitment after a long day of work is not my idea of fun. Now add the team's ineptitude for the past 15 years... I'm amazed they still find a way to attract more than 5,000 people.

Man, that's further than I thought. Really sad they planned the arena so for away from most people. So, the home market is basically just Glendale, then. Not a small town in itself, but I can see it's harder to fill the arena out of a more limited population than Phoenix Metro should imply.

But if there are bus lanes, the owners should seriously try setting up own buses from "more central points", and let people in Coyote-gear on for free. I assume those people would still spend enough money in the arena to make up for this little investment. OK, that was just a side-thought.

Talking about the team: It's not a bad team. Just bad results :-/ Now, win some more! Beating Sens should be possible.

 

[zz]

Bus lanes...

I'm not laughing at you, I come from Europe, so I get where you're coming from. Western US cities like Phoenix and LA are not built with this kind of thing in mind. Pretty much no-one takes public transportation. There are no bus lanes. There's a limited tram system in central Phoenix that's pretty great, but its goal is to link downtown / airport / ASU campus. Outside of that, you must own a car and go places using the freeway system.

Anyhoo, that was way OT. The good news is, major league baseball, basketball and football have show that winning games makes all this a moot point.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

We need 2 and 4 seat drones to lift us out of the East Valley and plop us outside the arena. Busses are so last century.

 

[XX]

Yeah, I understand the arena-issue. I'm a Norwegian by the way, live in Oslo.

Have you been to the states? I find the scale shocks most European visitors. Oslo is only slightly bigger than Mesa, which is a suburb of zero note in Phoenix. Where would you be if you drove an hour away from the city? It's possible to drive an hour in the Phoenix area and still end up inside Phoenix. Imagine a small town 45 minutes to an hour away from where you are, with no public transportation to get there. You must own a car. And you must pass through clogged side streets and/or the one highway that services that town. It's a lot to ask to watch awful hockey.

As far as the topic goes - it seems clear that, when the players are engaged and actually playing hard, they can hang with teams. It shouldn't take two fights for them to get their heads in the game.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Apparently our teams performance is somewhat related to the oxygen inside American arenas. Canadian arenas use pure, 100% Canadian air. The UN should look into this.

 

[TheLegend]

Apparently our teams performance is somewhat related to the oxygen inside American arenas. Canadian arenas use pure, 100% Canadian air. The UN should look into this.

 

[mouser]

Have you been to the states? I find the scale shocks most European visitors. Oslo is only slightly bigger than Mesa, which is a suburb of zero note in Phoenix. Where would you be if you drove an hour away from the city? It's possible to drive an hour in the Phoenix area and still end up inside Phoenix. Imagine a small town 45 minutes to an hour away from where you are, with no public transportation to get there. You must own a car. And you must pass through clogged side streets and/or the one highway that services that town. It's a lot to ask to watch awful hockey.

As far as the topic goes - it seems clear that, when the players are engaged and actually playing hard, they can hang with teams. It shouldn't take two fights for them to get their heads in the game.

@Name Nameless

Interesting way to look at it. Another idea of the scale of sprawl in metro Phoenix:

Oslo: 480 sq km, 670k inhabitants (1400/sq km)
Oslo + adjacent municipalities: 942k inhabitants, not certain on the sq km?

Phoenix: 1340 sq km, 1.6m inhabitants (1200/sq km)
Phoenix metropolitan area: 4.6m inhabitants, 23,494k sq km, 4.6m inhabitants
Phoenix + the core higher density adjacent cities: 3,272 sq km, 3.4m inhabitants (1040/sq km)*

*Phoenix, Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, Glendale, Scottsdale, Tempe, Peoria, Paradise Valley

p.s. blame any errors on Wikipedia