Who would've had more Art Ross trophies if both were fully healthy, Crosby or Jagr?

[authentic]

I think it's very possible each of them could've had 5 or 6.

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[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby would have.
06-07
10-11
12-13
13-14
14-15

Now he wasent healthy in 07-08 or 11-12 and 16-17.

Crosby has a legit shot at 8 art ross is healthy and bare minimum would have 5.

 

[authentic]

Crosby would have.
06-07
10-11
12-13
13-14
14-15

Now he wasent healthy in 07-08 or 11-12 and 16-17.

Crosby has a legit shot at 8 art ross is healthy and bare minimum would have 5.

I think bare minimum he would've had 4 but 6 is very likely as I also think 2014-15 and 2011-12 would've been likely but not guaranteed. He could've come very close a few more times too.

Jagr without Lemieux would've won 2 more Art Ross and was narrowly edged out by Thornton is 2005-06. This poll isn't about excluing other players though, but it shows that each are very close offensively in their primes for the most part with maybe a slight edge to Jagr.

 

[talitintti]

Jagr. Crosby has shown that he is anything but a lock for Art Ross when healthy. Way too much speculation and maybes. Just my opinion.

 

[Regal]

I'm comfortable giving Crosby '11 and '13 without injury. It's possible he wins one or two more but none of those seasons seem likely on their own. I'd probably say it's 50/50 or maybe slightly higher odds combined that he wins one in the other seasons, so I'll go with Jagr since he actually did win 5

 

[Incognito]

Hard to say. Crosby is basically a lock for the Art Ross in 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 if you remove his injuries. That would put him at 4 Art Ross Trophies. He would have had at least a decent to good shot at winning it in 2007-2008 as well, but that one is by no means a certainty. He also probably would have won in 2014-2015 had he not missed 5 games that season. I'll say that he would have tied with Jagr.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Crosby has at the very least 2 more Rosses if not for the injuries. One was a legitimate steal and in the other season, he was on pace for 132 pts while playing the best hockey of his life. Then you have 14-15 and 07-08 where he could’ve won, but it is far from a certain thing, especially 07-08.

 

[Thenameless]

Jagr. He already did win 5.

 

[Future GOAT]

Jagr pretty easily.

 

[authentic]

Jagr pretty easily.

You don't believe Crosby would've won atleast a few more if not for injury?

 

[bobholly39]

Each would have 5

Jagr didnt lose any to injury did he?

Crosby would have 11 12 and 13.

15 is dishonnest to count. He lost fair and square. I dont consider ~5 games missed to be "injuries".

I know 2012 is a bit of a stretch with 22 games only - but considering how he was the year before and after and even in those 22 games i dont see any reason he doesnt also win.

 

[Thenameless]

I have no horse in this race. On a slightly different note, I think if Crosby and Jagr were the same age and went head to head in this era, Crosby would have the early advantage (starting from 18 years old), as he was better at an early age. As their careers went on, I think it would be about 50/50 in scoring races between the two, so Crosby would likely retire with more scoring titles if both went uninjured. Now, if they went head to head in the dead puck era, I think Crosby would still have the advantage early on, but I think by about season 3 or 4, Jagr would be able to fight off the muggings that stars had to endure, and in this case I think Jagr would likely retire with more scoring titles if both went uninjured.

 

[Incognito]

Each would have 5

Jagr didnt lose any to injury did he?

Crosby would have 11 12 and 13.

15 is dishonnest to count. He lost fair and square. I dont consider ~5 games missed to be "injuries".

I know 2012 is a bit of a stretch with 22 games only - but considering how he was the year before and after and even in those 22 games i dont see any reason he doesnt also win.

While I see what you're saying, those five games probably did make a difference. Crosby had the highest PPG in the league that season, and all he would have needed to win the Art Ross is 4 points in those five games that he missed, which is easily doable for a player of his calibre. Of course players can go cold and he may not have gotten the 4 points that he needed to win in those five games, but I'd say that in any given five game stretch in Crosby's career, the odds are much greater that he scores 4+ points as opposed to fewer than 4. That's why to me, 2014-2015 falls into the "highly likely, but not a complete certainty" category when considering seasons where Crosby would have won the Art Ross if not for the time that he missed.

 

[bobholly39]

While I see what you're saying, those five games probably did make a difference. Crosby had the highest PPG in the league that season, and all he would have needed to win the Art Ross is 4 points in those five games that he missed, which is easily doable for a player of his calibre. Of course players can go cold and he may not have gotten the 4 points that he needed to win in those five games, but I'd say that in any given five game stretch in Crosby's career, the odds are much greater that he scores 4+ points as opposed to fewer than 4. That's why to me, 2014-2015 falls into the "highly likely, but not a complete certainty" category when considering seasons where Crosby would have won the Art Ross if not for the time that he missed.

I mean with full 82 games i think Crosby wins in 2015 too.

But i think taking this thread as "perfect health/0 games missed" is an exaggeration and unrealistic. Other players also miss a few games here and there - its more when a full season is compromised that a player is taken out of the race.

08 11 12 and 13 are the 4 years Crosby missed enough time we can speculate about imo.

 

[talitintti]

While I see what you're saying, those five games probably did make a difference. Crosby had the highest PPG in the league that season, and all he would have needed to win the Art Ross is 4 points in those five games that he missed, which is easily doable for a player of his calibre. Of course players can go cold and he may not have gotten the 4 points that he needed to win in those five games, but I'd say that in any given five game stretch in Crosby's career, the odds are much greater that he scores 4+ points as opposed to fewer than 4. That's why to me, 2014-2015 falls into the "highly likely, but not a complete certainty" category when considering seasons where Crosby would have won the Art Ross if not for the time that he missed.

Seguin was on the same points per game pace as Crosby that year, but missed some games.

 

[Laveuglette]

In 1997, Jagr might have lost the Ross due to injuries.... although Lemieux might still have won it. Would've been a close one.

 

[K Fleur]

In 1997, Jagr might have lost the Ross due to injuries.... although Lemieux might still have won it. Would've been a close one.

That season Jagr got injured in a game against the Red Wings on February 27th 1997. He had 87 points in 57 games up to that point.

Lemieux, with 97 points in 58 games, had already built a 10 point lead on Jagr by then.

I do think Jagr's injury cost him leading the league in goals(Rocket Richard trophy dd not exist yet). He had 45 in 57 games(pacing for 60+). Keith Tkachuk ended up leading the league with 52.

 

[illpucks]

Jagr missed the 05-06 one due to Thornton getting extra games due to trade.

 

[SotasicA]

Crosby. Jagr benefitted from other people's injuries (Lindros, Lemieux, Forsberg) more than anything.

 

[daver]

Crosby. Jagr benefited from other people's injuries (Lindros, Lemieux, Forsberg) more than anything.

He loses the 94/95 Ross to Lindros

He maybe wins the 95/96 and 96/97 Rosses if not injured and/or if no Mario.

His three wins after that are unquestionably his.

00/01 Ross is arguably lost if no Mario.

So three inarguable wins, three maybes, and one loss if injuries and the Mario factor are factored in.

Crosby's two wins are inarguble. Two other wins in 2013 and 10/11 are pretty much inarguable (10/11 is strong maybe at the very least). Maybe wins in 07/08, 11/12 and in 14/15.

So three or four inarguable wins, and three or four maybes.

 

[Khomutov]

I don't think Crosby would win in 2007-08 or 2011-12. Ovechkin and Malkin were otherwordly that years it would be tough even for Crosby.

 

[daver]

I don't think Crosby would win in 2007-08 or 2011-12. Ovechkin and Malkin were otherworldly that years it would be tough even for Crosby.

OV's goalscoring was otherworldly, not necessarily his point totals. Yes, Malkin was otherworldly but Crosby was also at the same level in 10/11 and 2013.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I don't think Crosby would win in 2007-08 or 2011-12. Ovechkin and Malkin were otherwordly that years it would be tough even for Crosby.

Don’t forget that Crosby would have been #1 center if he would’ve played in 2012. Malkin stepped up his game mostly because Sid was out and his was his chance to prove that he could lead the team as the #1 guy.

I’m not sure Malkin wins the art-Ross if Crosby plays all 82 games.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Three times Crosby went down as the leagues top scorer. Bad luck isn’t the word. It’s like the hockey gods made Crosby work for every trophy he has. Like really earn lol. I also remember in the thick of his domination it was always a reason not to give the hart to him.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Jagger