Who would you like to see gone?

[BlueForever75]

Babcock needs to be shed. To me it is inexcusable that Gardiner and Dermott continued to see the ice as much as they did after that first period. It is also inexcusable that Matthews only saw 6 minutes of ice time in the 3rd period. It's also inexcusable that he continued to only use our first PP unit for half of the PP when we were down the entire game. It is also inexcusable that Marleau was on the ice for key moments in both game 6 and 7 with Matthews on the bench. And it is also inexcusable that he has no idea when to pull his goalie.

Babcock to me is the reason why we lost. He was out-coached. Boston made adjustments and Babcock did not.

Now I know this will never happen, but it should. But in the end the more doable moves and smart moves would be to trade Brown and Zaitsev. Let Gardiner walk. It would be a mistake to trade Kadri or Nylander at this point. Let them have better seasons their value are at a all time low.

Replace Brown with more minutes for Moore. The kid is a gamer. Bright spot this series. Let Rosen replace Gardiner on left side of bottom pairing. Package Brown and Zaitsev for an upgrade in lineup at a lower cost.

Something needs to be done with Marleau. He cannot keep up anymore and he is a burden to our lineup.

If the team is to get better this is where it needs to get done. Depending on what Kapanen and Johnsson want, they too may have to be on the block. May be time to cash in on them and take a look at some players like Bracco, Marchment and other younger players like Petan. No reason why Petan cannot be Johnsson at a fraction of the cost on Matthews wing.

 

[mashedpotato]

Due to the shortsighted nature of these forums, not surprised to see Dubas up there but surprised anyone even considered this debacle should result in his termination. He's had a year on the job; Putting aside that he's done a reasonable job in assembling the talent, there are more obvious candidates for termination.

Marleau and Brown are really the only one I can see you can replace without having clear candidates for replacement; other than that, I'd say the remaining list is all but assured to be back with the club next year.

 

[meefer]

SUMMER 2019

Patrick Marleau- he's naturally finished. If he came back for another year it would be detrimental to the team and also a selfish move on his part to insist on being a player when he's completely finished. His presence on the Leafs is hurting the Leafs.

Jake Gardiner - his contract is up , he's in poor health and you can see how shell shocked he is being a Toronto Maple Leaf. Trying to be gentle here, but let's free Jake Gardiner one last time.

Ron Hainsey - there's definitely a need for a stay at home-ish big defenseman, but Hainsey's time is up and it's time for the Leafs to rotate in another serviceable journeyman.

Connor Brown - under powered, under talented jack of all trades who seems to only be here because he's a hometown guy. Adds nothing but hustle, and hustle only gets you so far.

Nazem Kadri - loose canon, poor fit on the third line, veteran player with no maturity, not a particular bargain at his current level of production.

SUMMER 2020

William Nylander - not a must trade this summer, but I give him a one year evaluation period to play back into the core group. However, in the long run, I suspect he's a player you'd like to get rid of as an organization at fair value. He's kind of a Martin Havlat: skillsy offensive player with no playoff gear.

Nikita Zaitsev - not this summer, but fairly expensive, replaceable player with a poor panic threshold.

Mike Babcock - turning on the clock for Mike Babcock. Evaluation is on him. I understand the program that he's trying to build and what he's looking to accomplish in the macro. In the micro game situations, he's still expecting to deploy the same game plan without the ability to make adjustments. Too much loyalty to broken toys like Marleau.

BEYOND

Frederik Andersen - I appreciate the Vezina calibre goaltending he provides on a routine basis, but the third period in Game 7 in 2018 and all of Game 7 in 2019 has me looking at him with a bit of a horse eye. Is he a championship goalie, or a suspect in the most critical moments?

No need to read anymore comments. A very solid summation and I appreciate your respectful explanation re: Gardiner. My only add would be Kadri. A good and valuable player who is either too selfish or too unhinged. Some team will value him and his contract and we can hopefully acquire one of the D we will need.

 

[Rainney]

All the gud pros, including Babcock.

 

[steam whistle]

Stephen should be our GM.

Right

 

[GoldenSeal]

Upgrade on Marleau and Kadri not suspended would have put this team over the top. You don't dismantle this team when they're bringing it to 7 games, you upgrade. Too much money being spent on a few players who shouldn't be a Leaf at this point. If Babs can't fix that or doesn't see the problem, show him the door. The problem is with certain players, not management.

 

[Budsfan]

Kadri, Nylander and Sparks, These players are not needed and their combined Cap is over 15 Million, more than enough to sign all our Young RFA players and even bring in a number of decent FA's, Charle Coyle type comes to mind.

The D should get an overhaul and a few players added either from the Marlies or FA's.

There are a few players we have signed and I would like to see at training camp, Justin Brazeau for one (good size and top overage scorer OHL), Rasmus Sandin, Jeremy Bracco, Pierre Engvall, Timothy Liljegren.

There are also a few KHL players, some to be signed but close evidently, that could be added and any FA's they can invite to camp.

 

[julray]

So you think they lost because they were physical ?

No I did not say that at all. They were physical, but they weren't effective. Make sense? 175 lbs soaking wet and they laid it all out there, but they were being asked to play a type of game which made them inefficient. I certainly don't question their heart this year.

 

[julray]

Upgrade on Marleau and Kadri not suspended would have put this team over the top. You don't dismantle this team when they're bringing it to 7 games, you upgrade. Too much money being spent on a few players who shouldn't be a Leaf at this point. If Babs can't fix that or doesn't see the problem, show him the door. The problem is with certain players, not management.

Babs was out coached badly, inflexible, rigid game plan with no ability to adjust.

 

[18leafsfan18]

No I did not say that at all. They were physical, but they weren't effective. Make sense? 175 lbs soaking wet and they laid it all out there, but they were being asked to play a type of game which made them inefficient. I certainly don't question their heart this year.

Who played inefficient ?

 

[julray]

Who played inefficient ?

The style of play was inefficient.. don't get me wrong, I am proud of what they were trying to do, stepping outside their comfort zone. But if you take 4th line of the Islanders and compare to 4th line of Leafs.. who would be more efficient when it comes to playing a bang em up style of hockey? Not only that, what about players like Reilly? He played a very physical series and it took a toll on his body. By the 3rd period of the 7th game he looked like he had cement in his skates. I have never seen Reilly so tired before, and him being such an effortless smooth skater.

Compare the Leafs play in the regular season, to their style of play in the playoffs and you will understand what I am talking about. The Leafs are not made to be a grinding physical style team.

Columbus will be a different story.. look what they did to Hedman in the 1st round. Their heavy forwards (Josh Anderson in particular) targeted him every chance they got, and they wore him down physically and mentally. They will attempt to do the same to McAvoy. Which one of the Leafs forwards would be effective in that situation? Nobody, but they tried

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

That lost over the Boston Bruins is mainly due to Kadri, the most hated nhl player in the last decade. He wasn't there because of his suspension, or I could say because he is Nazem Kadri.
Some people hate Brad Marchand and some people hated Gino Odjick and Tie Domi when they played hockey. But they are nice persons off the ice, I can't say the same about Kadri.

 

[julray]

That lost over the Boston Bruins is mainly due to Kadri, the most hated nhl player in the last decade. He wasn't there because of his suspension, or I could say because he is Nazem Kadri.
Some people hate Brad Marchand and some people hated Gino Odjick and Tie Domi when they played hockey. But they are nice persons off the ice, I can't say the same about Kadri.[/QUOTE]
WTH do you know about Kadri off the ice?

 

[18leafsfan18]

The style of play was inefficient.. don't get me wrong, I am proud of what they were trying to do, stepping outside their comfort zone. But if you take 4th line of the Islanders and compare to 4th line of Leafs.. who would be more efficient when it comes to playing a bang em up style of hockey? Not only that, what about players like Reilly? He played a very physical series and it took a toll on his body. By the 3rd period of the 7th game he looked like he had cement in his skates. I have never seen Reilly so tired before, and him being such an effortless smooth skater.

Compare the Leafs play in the regular season, to their style of play in the playoffs and you will understand what I am talking about. The Leafs are not made to be a grinding physical style team.

Columbus will be a different story.. look what they did to Hedman in the 1st round. Their heavy forwards (Josh Anderson in particular) targeted him every chance they got, and they wore him down physically and mentally. They will attempt to do the same to McAvoy. Which one of the Leafs forwards would be effective in that situation? Nobody, but they tried

4th line of the Islanders combined for 0 points in the playoffs. So not very efficient to me.

Hedman came into the playoffs injured. That was not on Columbus.

All the teams in the West who came out on top in round 1 didn't win based on more "Physicality"

This series loss is based mostly on PP, PK and ice time. All of which can be blamed on coaching.

There are obviously other factors, but these are the main issues.

 

[qqaz]

Who I'd like to see gone? Babcock. I defended him a lot, even right up the game last night. But watching the goalie get pulled without solid offensive zone possession (for the second game in a row!) was the last straw. I didn't always like him, but I trusted that he knew what he was doing. Not anymore.

He's the only person I really want gone. But I'd be just fine with any and all of Gardiner, Marleau, Brown, Gauthier, and Sparks leaving. I'm on the fence about Kadri and Nylander. I'm probably too frustrated about the loss to come to a sane conclusion on anything, though.

 

[smitty10]

In order:

Babcock
Marleau
Sparks
Brown
Gardiner
Nylander

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Answer to julray : Kadri's political opinions and hate of americans.

 

[deletethis]

Columbus will be a different story.. look what they did to Hedman in the 1st round. Their heavy forwards (Josh Anderson in particular) targeted him every chance they got, and they wore him down physically and mentally. They will attempt to do the same to McAvoy. Which one of the Leafs forwards would be effective in that situation? Nobody, but they tried

I want Columbus to dominate Boston to emphasize what works. Boston had a ruggedness/grit/discipline advantage over the Leafs but they won't against Columbus.

 

[Fatass]

Who I'd like to see gone? Babcock. I defended him a lot, even right up the game last night. But watching the goalie get pulled without solid offensive zone possession (for the second game in a row!) was the last straw. I didn't always like him, but I trusted that he knew what he was doing. Not anymore.

He's the only person I really want gone. But I'd be just fine with any and all of Gardiner, Marleau, Brown, Gauthier, and Sparks leaving. I'm on the fence about Kadri and Nylander. I'm probably too frustrated about the loss to come to a sane conclusion on anything, though.

I wonder what Babcock’s directions to Anderson are about when to leave the net? Does Anderson get to choose when he thinks it’s best to go, or does he wait for a signal from the bench?

 

[LeafsLegendAkiBerg]

Babcock is number one for me. I think quite a few players on the list (e.g. Brown and Marleau) would be better liked here if they were utilized correctly. Most of my frustration around these players comes from them getting 15+ minutes a night stapled to more talented players.

Next, it's Marleau, if for no other reason than that contract. Marleau is a 12/13th forward at this point and you can't pay that guy $6m to do that.

Gardiner is a player we can't afford and after another weak game 7, I'm not that upset. Kadri has regressed and become a liability in the playoffs. I wouldn't mind selling high-ish on him. I'd give Nylander another chance with a full year but if we're gonna play him on a checking line with Marleau and Brown we may as well just trade him.

And as the poster above mentioned.. Sparks needs to be replaced with a competent backup who can play 20+ games a year.

 

[IPS]

Nylander with 127 votes and Babcock with 223?!?!

Holy f*** this board is finally coming around at long last!!!

 

[Budsfan]

That lost over the Boston Bruins is mainly due to Kadri, the most hated nhl player in the last decade. He wasn't there because of his suspension, or I could say because he is Nazem Kadri.
Some people hate Brad Marchand and some people hated Gino Odjick and Tie Domi when they played hockey. But they are nice persons off the ice, I can't say the same about Kadri.

I'm not a Kadri fan but only because of the way he plays hockey and I think he should be traded but it's going way too far saying he is or isn't a nice player off the ice, that has zero to do with the way he plays hockey.

I'm only interested in his value to the Leafs and that is at an all-time low and he is not cutting it.

Let's stick to hockey-related facts, everything else is of no consequence.

 

[julray]

4th line of the Islanders combined for 0 points in the playoffs. So not very efficient to me.

Hedman came into the playoffs injured. That was not on Columbus.

All the teams in the West who came out on top in round 1 didn't win based on more "Physicality"

This series loss is based mostly on PP, PK and ice time. All of which can be blamed on coaching.

There are obviously other factors, but these are the main issues.

1. Points are tangible, there are many more intangible aspects in the game that help contribute to victory. You need to see pass TSN highlights and internet box scores
2. Hedman was not 100%, that's correct. If you watched any of the Columbus - Lightning series you would of seen he was a marked target and the Bluejackets were relentless. He was a wounded animal and the did not let up. But that's not the point, they had the right personnel to play that style
3. I only seen some of the Jets and Flames series. Jets series had quite a bit of physicality. But I can't really say yes or no.. take your word for it
4. Agreed... I didn't say the only reason the Leafs lost was because they were a smaller team trying to play a bigger game

 

[julray]

Answer to julray : Kadri's political opinions and hate of americans.

I learn something new everyday I guess... didn't realize what his political opinions are and that he hated Americans. Or maybe that's just rumours (rumours spelled with a "u" and not because I hate americans, )?

 

[LeafalCrusader]

1.Babcock-Not going to happen though so I'd settle for his assistants
2.Marleau-I respect the hell out of the guy. That said, the salary cap crunch is going to hit us hard next year and his 6.25 salary is going to kill us. Probably stuck with him though and with Babcock you know he'll be in the top 9 and getting powerplay time FML!
3.Brown-Too expensive for a 4th liner, not good enough to be in the top 9
4.Gardiner-Been a blast Jake but time to part ways
5.Sparks-Was worth the gamble but it didn't pay off
6.Zaitsev-Had a solid playoffs but his contract is bad and I'd look to move him out now