Who would you like to see gone?

[RayzorIsDull]

If you want to have Babcock move along that's fine but if the only other moves are guys like Marleau/Brown out then it makes no difference who the coach is. The rest is just window dressing. If you don't move a piece of the core then you're just appeasing that core and not sending a message at all. In fact that's how I can see Dubas doing it.

 

[18leafsfan18]

If you want to have Babcock move along that's fine but if the only other moves are guys like Marleau/Brown out then it makes no difference who the coach is. The rest is just window dressing. If you don't move a piece of the core then you're just appeasing that core and not sending a message at all. In fact that's how I can see Dubas doing it.

Why would you have to get rid of a piece of the core ?

The PP and PK were awful and ice time was given completely wrong.

They went to game 7 with a team everyone thinks is a stanley cup contender.

This is a coach issue plain and simple

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Why would you have to get rid of a piece of the core ?

The PP and PK were awful and ice time was given completely wrong.

They went to game 7 with a team everyone thinks is a stanley cup contender.

This is a coach issue plain and simple

Because talking about moving Brown/Marleau those guys are 3rd/4th liners. If we are going to talk about how poor Babcock is lets also admit he hasn't Kadri at his disposal for 8 out of the 14 playoff games against the B's. Kind of hurts as well when your 3rd line is bad being centered by Nylander who didn't want to compete very hard. Fact is Babcock is only playing with the options at his disposal. Babcock's only choices were if he wanted to put Petan in up front or Rosen on D and I think we can agree neither were feasible ideas. So if Babcock goes who becomes coach? Keefe? Are we sure he's not the next Dallas Eakins? Maybe he's going to be a great NHL coach but I would put a lot of money on it not happening next year. Moving Babcock only means the core wins for another year with zero accountability put on them.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

As far as I'm concerned, these positions are safe for next season....

Hyman-Matthews-_______

Really? We're all still going to pretend Hyman's a top line forward? He should stay but not stapled to the top 6 unless he actually earns it or there's really nobody better for the role.

Zaitsev needs to go for anything. Let's see if Dubas can convince the rest of the league that he's a fundamentally sound player.

 

[Kazparov]

Apparently Naz didn't travel with the team to Boston for 5 or 7. That's unusual....

 

[18leafsfan18]

Because talking about moving Brown/Marleau those guys are 3rd/4th liners. If we are going to talk about how poor Babcock is lets also admit he hasn't Kadri at his disposal for 8 out of the 14 playoff games against the B's. Kind of hurts as well when your 3rd line is bad being centered by Nylander who didn't want to compete very hard. Fact is Babcock is only playing with the options at his disposal. Babcock's only choices were if he wanted to put Petan in up front or Rosen on D and I think we can agree neither were feasible ideas. So if Babcock goes who becomes coach? Keefe? Are we sure he's not the next Dallas Eakins? Maybe he's going to be a great NHL coach but I would put a lot of money on it not happening next year. Moving Babcock only means the core wins for another year with zero accountability put on them.

Maybe if he didn't play Marleau 16 min in a game 7. He is just useless out there.

The 4th line played like 10 min that game. Most coaches wouldn't play them 8.

The "Core" guys were not played enough.

PP and PK were laughable all series.

 

[I Believe]

Gardiner (I think he's gone regardless for cap reasons)
Marleau (I'd like him gone, but I think we're stuck for 1 more year)
Special teams coach shakeup (hopefully)

Also real disappointed in Kadri this year, but he does have value. He's gotta be better and stop letting other players get in his head.

 

[MyBudJT]

Really? We're all still going to pretend Hyman's a top line forward? He should stay but not stapled to the top 6 unless he actually earns it or there's really nobody better for the role.

Zaitsev needs to go for anything. Let's see if Dubas can convince the rest of the league that he's a fundamentally sound player.

Yes. We need more Hymans on this team.

 

[MyBudJT]

Yeah but that was kind of my point. Even as underdogs, we should have been able to win at least one. Losing all three would have been unlikely from such a perspective, so it should be regarded as a failure.

I wouldn't call it a failure... I'd call it unlucky.

Maybe it's just my scientific background.... But 1/8 probabilities happen all the time by chance...

And again that's using the 50/50 method.

Washington series: probably had closer to 10% chance
Boston #1 series: probably had a 40% chance
Boston #2 series: probably has a 50% chance

So really... One could say there was ~25% chance of losing all 3 by 'chance'.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Maybe if he didn't play Marleau 16 min in a game 7. He is just useless out there.

The 4th line played like 10 min that game. Most coaches wouldn't play them 8.

The "Core" guys were not played enough.

PP and PK were laughable all series.

I could make the case the core guys like Marner/Tavares well effective shutting down Bergeron/Marchand were not nearly as effective creating offensive opportunities for much of the series.

So who you going to replace with Marleau? Connor Brown?? Tyler Ennis? Trevor Moore?? The team is a hell of a lot more talented than they were 3 years ago the roster still wasn't a cup caliber roster this year. Yes this sucks losing to Boston again but when you realize the roster isn't at the peak cup contender level you shouldn't get angry about it. Look at the poll it includes 5 players then the coach and gm. If we included 5 players on this list and Zaitsev wasn't one of them you can't tell me that this roster was seriously a cup contender.

 

[rumman]

If you want to have Babcock move along that's fine but if the only other moves are guys like Marleau/Brown out then it makes no difference who the coach is. The rest is just window dressing. If you don't move a piece of the core then you're just appeasing that core and not sending a message at all. In fact that's how I can see Dubas doing it.

THIS.

I think your spot on with your assessment. Babcock isn't the biggest problem with this team, but he's not the coach if catering to the core is the GM's idea of how to run a team. This team could be so much more, however the GM doesn't know what he's doing, and by the time he's fired the best window to win will have elapsed.

 

[Fogelhund]

Assistant Coaches will be replaced. PK at 56% in the playoffs is the main reason we lost. PP was also at 0% on the road.
We outscored, and on balance outplayed Boston 5 v 5.

Babcock survives one more year.

Gardiner is gone, cap reasons as much as anything.
Marleau is done at this point. I respect him, and his leadership, but father time catches up.
Zaitsev - provided acceptable D in the playoffs, and zero points... still need better for $4.25
Brown - One point in the playoffs... too expensive for what he brings now. Loved his story and the player, but time to move on.
Ennis - I'd love him to come back, but I think he finds more money elsewhere.
I'm mixed on moving Kadri or Nylander. Kadri I'm not sure I trust anymore, though he might not get us the RD we need. We need a RD...we need to trade something of value to get that. One of them is gone.
Hainsey... on the cheap, I keep him, but only if he can be moved down the lineup.
Sparks - there is more to this story, but he doesn't come back.
Kapanen - I like him, but if we can improve the team more, and he's a piece to be moved, do it. He played hard, hit... skates like the wind, but you need to put up more than two points playing with Matthews. I'd move him for some size and grit...and at two points in the playoffs, hard not to find replacement level offence.

------------
I like Goat's progress, and his skating was decent, possession numbers and GA strong... needs to improve in the dot, keep working on skating (which could soon be a strength), and hit someone... hard.

Pickup Mikheyev and Andronov.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Babcock, Marleau, Brown, Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev

 

[rielledup]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Mathews and JT will be the 2nd and 3rd highest paid players next year and are nowhere near the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league. JT finished 16th in points and Mathews was on pace for the exact same amount of points as JT which would have him tied for 16th in points, nowhere near good enough for what they are making. That combined with Marner probably getting 10-11 mil and I'm very concerned with how much this team can improve with around 40 mil tied up with 4 players. We have to hope that Mathews and Nylander still have significant room to grow before they reach their peak.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It starts with Babcock and the whole coaching staff

Marleau
Nylander
Brown (actually don't care if he stays or goes)
Kadri - just can't have that happen
Zaitsev
Gardiner (crumbles in big games every time)
Sparks

 

[Field of Dreams]

Nylander, despite having all the skill in the world is clearly unwilling to put in a winning effort. It is unacceptable a man paid 7 million a year is unwilling to retrieve pucks or risk taking contact. He is not a winning player, and his attitude is a cancer that must be cut out.

Gardiner is exhibit A to the limitations of advanced statistics. He cannot be back as we cannot afford him, so I'm going to avoid digging into him too hard.

I'm sure Marleau is more than aware of his decline, the pain must be awful. I'm can't see him wanting to go further down this road. I see him accepting a trade to a budget team after his bonus is paid, and retiring with his ironman streak intact.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I could make the case the core guys like Marner/Tavares well effective shutting down Bergeron/Marchand were not nearly as effective creating offensive opportunities for much of the series.

So who you going to replace with Marleau? Connor Brown?? Tyler Ennis? Trevor Moore?? The team is a hell of a lot more talented than they were 3 years ago the roster still wasn't a cup caliber roster this year. Yes this sucks losing to Boston again but when you realize the roster isn't at the peak cup contender level you shouldn't get angry about it. Look at the poll it includes 5 players then the coach and gm. If we included 5 players on this list and Zaitsev wasn't one of them you can't tell me that this roster was seriously a cup contender.

I picked 3 of the players and the coach (Marleau, Brown, Gardiner, Babcock).

The only "core" players on that list are arguably Kadri and Nylander (Fringe core players at that).

Moore and Ennis were far more effective then Marleau this series, but it just back to babcocks love for veteran players (to a fault). Brown was shit too.

Also, just becasue the poll includes 5 players doesn't mean anything (thats just the opinion of who created the poll).

Leafs have the better team, just didn't use the team properly to get it done.

 

[18leafsfan18]

THIS.

I think your spot on with your assessment. Babcock isn't the biggest problem with this team, but he's not the coach if catering to the core is the GM's idea of how to run a team. This team could be so much more, however the GM doesn't know what he's doing, and by the time he's fired the best window to win will have elapsed.

How can it be on the GM ?

The Leafs had the better team and they didn't win. The team was not used properly.

PP was 18.8%
PK was 56.3%

Ice time was a joke.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I have this feeling that Babcock is going to be back.

Oh he'll be back for likely one more year. It would look horrible for upper management if they had to write off almost $20M in remaining salary. Sorry folks, it won't be until after next year's elimination.

 

[HolyCrap]

All the above. They are all useless. This team needs special leadership and solid players. We’re a fragile team in desperate need of help.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Dubad is straight garbage and refuses to look past his stupid analytics. The playoffs are about muscle and always have been, wake up loser! The Kadri suspension was his fault and he could have picked up Pelly-Smith for free, that isn't Kadri's job. He got rid off Mcbackup and didn't want to admit Sparks is garbage. Marleau is washed up and he made Mathews the second highest paid player in the NHL but didn't get term. Tavares wanted to come here, so don't give me that crap. You add him and Muzzin and get the same result while losing your first rounder and now you only have 4 year window due to a strike year. Mathews walks at 26 and you have no cup. Epic fail full of excuses and pluck the snowflakes you are politically correct losers and that is why you will pay $2/l while starving to death and never have a cup. I'm going back to watching Liverpool this organization is a joke and should have never fired Lou. Both Shanahan and Dubad have only themselves and the snowflake fans who eat their BS to blame! We lose JVR and Gardiner for nothing while accomplishing squat. Epic Fail!

 

[18leafsfan18]

All the above. They are all useless. This team needs special leadership and solid players. We’re a fragile team in desperate need of help.

Over exaggeration much ?

 

[rumman]

How can it be on the GM ?

The Leafs had the better team and they didn't win. The team was not used properly.

PP was 18.8%
PK was 56.3%

Ice time was a joke.

GM should known what players the coach needs and will use, or fire the coach if he isn't onboard with the butter soft shinny hockey vision Dubas has.

 

[the squared circle]

William Nylander.
I’m so sour on this guy after this year, it’s unbelievable.

 

[HolyCrap]

Over exaggeration much ?

Nope. I’m fine with Dubas for a year, the rest are garbage. I just understand the game.