Who would Detroit take at 4?

[newfy]

On one of those guys, I agree.

You know what I mean lol.

Perfetti and Rossi havea chance to be NHL centers. I dont love the idea of Raymond who has 0 chance of doing it but those 2 there is a decent shot they can at least play the middle in a pinch

It's still bonkers to me I'm the crazy one here because I want the best goalie prospect in 15 years, but somehow it's totally reasonable to draft a tiny, not speedy guy.

I'm all about a guy like Marty St. Louis, but that dude was stupid fast and nimble.

The whole Rossi thing is like... Oh hi, Hudler. Nice to see you again.

I'm not sure hes the best goalie prospect in 15 years. Hes a very good one, but hes not Carey Price coming up. I'm not sure if I would take him over Spencer Knight, so he might be the best goalie prospect in one year, not 15.

Its been said, but starting goalies can be found WAY easier than a first line forward. Not worth the risk. Hell, if the wings had a solid team this year Bernier was playing at a level that they could've been really competitive. Why use the highest pick since almost Yzerman was drafted when a guy like Bernier can be found and fill the role solidly?

 

[jkutswings]

Why use the highest pick since almost Yzerman was drafted when a guy like Bernier can be found and fill the role solidly?

Oh no he didn't!

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

You know what I mean lol.

Perfetti and Rossi havea chance to be NHL centers. I dont love the idea of Raymond who has 0 chance of doing it but those 2 there is a decent shot they can at least play the middle in a pinch



I'm not sure hes the best goalie prospect in 15 years. Hes a very good one, but hes not Carey Price coming up. I'm not sure if I would take him over Spencer Knight, so he might be the best goalie prospect in one year, not 15.

Its been said, but starting goalies can be found WAY easier than a first line forward. Not worth the risk. Hell, if the wings had a solid team this year Bernier was playing at a level that they could've been really competitive. Why use the highest pick since almost Yzerman was drafted when a guy like Bernier can be found and fill the role solidly?

I think Askarov is the best goalie prospect since Price, I thought Knight was a first rounder and I think they will be the best goalies in the league at points, I have to say Askarov impressed me more consistently than even Knight. You like to point out that I love the USA guys a little too much so what does that say. I think they are the next Gibson and Vasy, I expect the same nation to be winning that contest unfortunately...

Raymond projects as a line driver for me so center or not it doesn't bother me as much.

 

[Bench]

I'm not sure hes the best goalie prospect in 15 years. Hes a very good one, but hes not Carey Price coming up. I'm not sure if I would take him over Spencer Knight, so he might be the best goalie prospect in one year, not 15.

He's absolutely Carey Price coming up.

“Askarov is a special goalie prospect. He’s shown for years he can be a difference-maker at the highest levels. From defeating arguably the most talented USNTDP team as an underage, to stealing gold from a loaded Canadian Hlinka team, to being great as a 17-year-old versus men and even winning a game for SKA, he has shown he is a different type of goalie. Yes, he had a terrible world juniors. He let in soft goals I’ve never seen him let in before. He also is a goalie with a very long track record of success, a ton of athleticism, elite hockey sense, great puck tracking ability, and a ton of confidence and aggressiveness in net. I think he will become a top goaltender in the NHL.”
– Corey Pronman, The Athletic (from: “Pronman: Ranking the 2020 NHL Draft top prospects at midseason” – The Athletic -Jan. 29, 200).

Its been said, but starting goalies can be found WAY easier than a first line forward.

A starting goalie? Sure. Anyone you stick in there can be a starting goalie.

But an elite goalie? Good luck. Those guys are typically getting snagged in the 1st round now. The landscape of goalie scouting has changed and the traditional armchair GM wisdom hasn't caught up yet.

 

[newfy]

I think Askarov is the best goalie prospect since Price, I thought Knight was a first rounder and I think they will be the best goalies in the league at points, I have to say Askarov impressed me more consistently than even Knight. You like to point out that I love the USA guys a little too much so what does that say. I think they are the next Gibson and Vasy, I expect the same nation to be winning that contest unfortunately...

Raymond projects as a line driver for me so center or not it doesn't bother me as much.

Eh he might be better than Knight, but hes not the McDavid of goalies coming up. Hes definitely one of the best in a long time sure but he has more to prove than Knight did as well. I think people were a lot more sure about projecting Knight than what people are with Askarov. You dont have a WJC like Askarov did this year and get to be called the bonafide best goalie prospect without it being questioned. He wouldnt be ranked 11 in Mackenzies rankings if scouts didnt agree. I dont care that he was young, he was bad. Not worth the risk at 4

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Eh he might be better than Knight, but hes not the McDavid of goalies coming up. Hes definitely one of the best in a long time sure but he has more to prove than Knight did as well. I think people were a lot more sure about projecting Knight than what people are with Askarov. You dont have a WJC like Askarov did this year and get to be called the bonafide best goalie prospect without it being questioned. He wouldnt be ranked 11 in Mackenzies rankings if scouts didnt agree. I dont care that he was young, he was bad. Not worth the risk at 4

He is also the consensus best of the Russian goaltenders and I look around the league and see a golden era of Russian goaltending. He is the best of them all, doesn't that say something... It does to me as do the times I have watched him outside of the WJC. He had a bad month last couple games entering it and first couple games out. Yes it was damaging no doubt, but it doesn't change what he has been about since he was about 15. Dude is an unreal talent.

I have said for several months now, that I agree with the taking an offensive difference maker. A Raymond/Perfetti type. I think Chicago will wind up with a steal in Askarov.

 

[newfy]

He's absolutely Carey Price coming up.

“Askarov is a special goalie prospect. He’s shown for years he can be a difference-maker at the highest levels. From defeating arguably the most talented USNTDP team as an underage, to stealing gold from a loaded Canadian Hlinka team, to being great as a 17-year-old versus men and even winning a game for SKA, he has shown he is a different type of goalie. Yes, he had a terrible world juniors. He let in soft goals I’ve never seen him let in before. He also is a goalie with a very long track record of success, a ton of athleticism, elite hockey sense, great puck tracking ability, and a ton of confidence and aggressiveness in net. I think he will become a top goaltender in the NHL.”
– Corey Pronman, The Athletic (from: “Pronman: Ranking the 2020 NHL Draft top prospects at midseason” – The Athletic -Jan. 29, 200).



A starting goalie? Sure. Anyone you stick in there can be a starting goalie.

But an elite goalie? Good luck. Those guys are typically getting snagged in the 1st round now. The landscape of goalie scouting has changed and the traditional armchair GM wisdom hasn't caught up yet.

Right now there is only 11 active goalies drafted in the first round in the entire NHL. I would say Carey Price is the only one who has sustained a high level of play his whole career and honestly, out of a 3 or so year blip, hes been in the pack with the other top 5-10 goalies. Its why hes only got one Vezina. Rask also has a Vezina and hes been really solid behind a great defensive team but hes not worth a 4th overall pick. The only one I would think of as an elite level goalie is Vasilevsky.

Other recent guys include Malcom Subban and Jack Campbell as well.

Moral of the story, not a lot of active goalies are first rounders and not very many of them turn out to be anything better than an average starter. Bernier is right about middle of the pack for the active first round goalies and he was found dirt cheap for free. If we were talking 2008 and the wings are coming off a cup win and picking Mccollum at the end of the first. Sure take a chance on a goalie, at 4th overall? It would be completely idiotic given the difference in how hard it is to acquire talent.

Very solid goalies that you can win with can be found in free agency almost every single year. How many first line centers or top pairing D make it to free agency? You have to draft them high to get them, cant say the same about goalies

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He's absolutely Carey Price coming up.

“Askarov is a special goalie prospect. He’s shown for years he can be a difference-maker at the highest levels. From defeating arguably the most talented USNTDP team as an underage, to stealing gold from a loaded Canadian Hlinka team, to being great as a 17-year-old versus men and even winning a game for SKA, he has shown he is a different type of goalie. Yes, he had a terrible world juniors. He let in soft goals I’ve never seen him let in before. He also is a goalie with a very long track record of success, a ton of athleticism, elite hockey sense, great puck tracking ability, and a ton of confidence and aggressiveness in net. I think he will become a top goaltender in the NHL.”
– Corey Pronman, The Athletic (from: “Pronman: Ranking the 2020 NHL Draft top prospects at midseason” – The Athletic -Jan. 29, 200).



A starting goalie? Sure. Anyone you stick in there can be a starting goalie.

But an elite goalie? Good luck. Those guys are typically getting snagged in the 1st round now. The landscape of goalie scouting has changed and the traditional armchair GM wisdom hasn't caught up yet.

A few have been high second in Hart and Gibson but more and more yes you're seeing this shift in my opinion.

You can make the analytical argument though because of the numbers in terms of just 62 spots soon to be 64 proving out over time. I just don't necessarily subscribe to that thought. If you get an elite guy it is worth a lot, it isn't sexy so I get that angle, but it is the most important position on the ice.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Yeah, Rossi isn't nimble whatsoever.




It's a wonder he can stand up at all!



Persistence and determination are omnipotent!

As long as he doesn’t have to skate anywhere outside of a box that’s slightly bigger than he is tall, or if he transitions to a Russian circus as “bear who walks on ball” he’s going to be among the elite physical specimen in the NHL

 

[lilidk]

It's still bonkers to me I'm the crazy one here because I want the best goalie prospect in 15 years, but somehow it's totally reasonable to draft a tiny, not speedy guy.

I'm all about a guy like Marty St. Louis, but that dude was stupid fast and nimble.

The whole Rossi thing is like... Oh hi, Hudler. Nice to see you again.

not even close.

 

[Bench]

Very solid goalies that you can win with can be found in free agency almost every single year. How many first line centers or top pairing D make it to free agency? You have to draft them high to get them, cant say the same about goalies

Ah yes, there's just an endless choice of great goalie options every year. I guess that's why the Wings have been stuck with average at best goaltending for over a decade.

It's just so damn easy to get top goalie production in free agency. Happens all the time.

Oh by the way it's been a decade since a goalie that wasn't drafted and re-signed by their team has won a Cup.

We're literally one year removed from the St. Louis Blue's reminding us how bad goaltending can single-handedly tank a championship caliber team and folks are like "Eh just sign 35-year-old Griess and hope for the best."

But this is a moot point, because the good news for me is Yzerman has a consistent track record of aggressive acquisition of top goaltending talent as a cornerstone of his teams. He's not going to just draft guys in round 4 and hope and pray. We're going to spend assets eventually on the position.

 

[DetroitRed]

I've said it before, but I think they drafted for need last draft in the first round. It also seems like they didn't mind reaching for the player who they thought would fulfill that need best. So, drafting for need might be within the realm of possibilities again.

However, if center is the greatest need among position players, to draft a player who would be a regular at center in the NHL, they would have to reach quite a bit once again. It's not that it's out of the realm of possibilities obviously, but if they reach like that for a center this draft in first round, then you are probably talking about really gambling on missing out on some much bigger talent among the prospects in this draft who tend to be ranked 4 to 8.

So, if there's a pattern to them drafting for need, and we assume for a moment that they wont gamble as much with fourth pick as they did with sixth, then I think we can right away eliminate one of my favorites, Dryesdale.

With Perfetti or Rossi, they might have a chance for a guy who is very good and plays center occasionally. With Raymond, they could add a very good strong side RW/weak side LW. Those are all need-ish and still in the fourth pick BPA argument.

Oh, then there's Askarov, and goalie is the biggest need if you ask me, but that's kinda way out there for a team drafting fourth which only has one first-round pick. I don't see it happening.

I think they will add one of the aforementioned wingers. Personally, I've been talked me into considering Perfetti, and I still like Raymond.

 

[jkutswings]

... but it is the most important position on the ice.

Is it though? I mean, compare these scenarios:

Elite goaltender vs average to above average goaltender.

Elite center vs average to above average center.

Is the net gain (no pun intended) in the first scenario really bigger? If you drive possession enough, it doesn't matter as much who's in net, since they aren't facing many shots.

 

[Frk It]

Hey, I know it isn't you. But Rossi is firmly in the #3/4 spot here on the forum after Drysdale and Raymond. Basically tied with Perfetti.

In the poll asking who the Wings should avoid, only 17% voted for Rossi. For comparison, Raymond was avoided at 12% and Drysdale was 13%. Askarov was 50% avoid rate.

I think that's bonkers. I don't think taking Raymond or Drysdale over Askarov is unreasonable at all. But Rossi? That's bonkers.

We can easily point to how great all the recent goalies with Askarov's pedigree have done. One can debate how important goalies are, but Price and Vasilevskiy are tremendous NHL goalies, that part isn't up for debate. Meanwhile, still waiting for someone to show me a player with Rossi's measurable qualities that is anything more than a depth player in the NHL.

I don’t want him at 4, but I don’t think his skating is nearly as bad as you and @The Zetterberg Era suggest. I think you guys are maybe gassing each other up a little bit on that.

I’d take Rossi over some of the other guys people push for at 4.

 

[newfy]

Ah yes, there's just an endless choice of great goalie options every year. I guess that's why the Wings have been stuck with average at best goaltending for over a decade.

It's just so damn easy to get top goalie production in free agency. Happens all the time.

Oh by the way it's been a decade since a goalie that wasn't drafted and re-signed by their team has won a Cup.

We're literally one year removed from the St. Louis Blue's reminding us how bad goaltending can single-handedly tank a championship caliber team and folks are like "Eh just sign 35-year-old Griess and hope for the best."

But this is a moot point, because the good news for me is Yzerman has a consistent track record of aggressive acquisition of top goaltending talent as a cornerstone of his teams. He's not going to just draft guys in round 4 and hope and pray. We're going to spend assets eventually on the position.

The wings have been stuck with average at best (I would say Howard was above average at his best but whatever) because they haven't really tried to actually address it. You can get average goaltending without even trying to address it it all, in a couple years when the wings are ready to compete and they try to address it they will find something that works.

The Blues might have reminded you that, but I dont think they help your case at all. It just shows how volatile the position is really. A 4th string goalie with no NHL experience, drafted 8 years ago in the third round can come up and get hot enough to win a cup. 4th round pick Holtby wins it the year before, the Penguins finally ditch their first overall pick goalie with a late third rounder and they win, 2nd round Crawford the year before that, 3rd round Quick before that. You have to go back to 2009 to find a first round cup winning goalie and that team needed 2 generational players and multiple other top 5 picks to win that cup. That first overall pick goalie had the worst 5 year run in arguably NHL history in the playoffs and probably actually cost his team an extra cup or 2.

The last decade, what do teams who win the cup have in common? They dont use really big assets to acquire a goalie thats good enough to win. Even these young elite goalies now, who has made it in the NHL and done anything? Vasilevsky has backstopped the team that has failed the most in the playoffs while being the best regular season team, including a horrible showing in the playoffs last year. And he wasnt a fourth overall, he was an extra first round pick in the draft.

The best young goalie to me is probably Gibson, a second rounder (Vasi is right there though). The best goaltending prospect/up and comer is Hart, a second rounder.

So I guess, find me a team in the last decade or two that has used that high of a pick on a goalie and been successful? The Pens won one cup and probably lost one or two because of theirs. I dont really care if the Panthers took a guy like Knight high, because that team has been bad forever and he wasnt close to 4th overall

 

[jkutswings]

The wings have been stuck with average at best (I would say Howard was above average at his best but whatever) because they haven't really tried to actually address it. You can get average goaltending without even trying to address it it all, in a couple years when the wings are ready to compete and they try to address it they will find something that works.

The Blues might have reminded you that, but I dont think they help your case at all. It just shows how volatile the position is really. A 4th string goalie with no NHL experience, drafted 8 years ago in the third round can come up and get hot enough to win a cup. 4th round pick Holtby wins it the year before, the Penguins finally ditch their first overall pick goalie with a late third rounder and they win, 2nd round Crawford the year before that, 3rd round Quick before that. You have to go back to 2009 to find a first round cup winning goalie and that team needed 2 generational players and multiple other top 5 picks to win that cup. That first overall pick goalie had the worst 5 year run in arguably NHL history in the playoffs and probably actually cost his team an extra cup or 2.

The last decade, what do teams who win the cup have in common? They dont use really big assets to acquire a goalie thats good enough to win. Even these young elite goalies now, who has made it in the NHL and done anything? Vasilevsky has backstopped the team that has failed the most in the playoffs while being the best regular season team, including a horrible showing in the playoffs last year. And he wasnt a fourth overall, he was an extra first round pick in the draft.

The best young goalie to me is probably Gibson, a second rounder (Vasi is right there though). The best goaltending prospect/up and comer is Hart, a second rounder.

So I guess, find me a team in the last decade or two that has used that high of a pick on a goalie and been successful? The Pens won one cup and probably lost one or two because of theirs. I dont really care if the Panthers took a guy like Knight high, because that team has been bad forever and he wasnt close to 4th overall

Yep, if I had to pick one strategy that I thought would be most successful, it's to have at least two very high-end forwards that drive possession and put the puck in the net. If at all possible, that's where I splurge on my draft capital, and then I fill things out as best in can.

 

[Vector Cereal]

Assuming the top 3 are set, the order I'd want the Wings to pick is:

1. Perfetti
Mild center potential helps and he seems like a real student of the game. Aside from the solid grades, I like that he got the name Goal Perfetti, then came back the next year and became one of the best playmakers. Shows a willingness to work on his game and challenge himself, and puts aside some doubts that he can take his skating to another level.

2. Raymond
Like Perfetti, another dual threat in the O zone. Mix that with great backchecking. Between him, Larkin, Mantha, Zadina, and Bert that's five, hard after the puck guys who can do at least two of trigger man, net front, or distributor: makes it very easy to coach. I like how he circles the zone and always keeps the puck moving. For a guy like Zadina who has some trouble gaining separation, having someone else wheel the puck like Raymomd does will make Zadina's defender play him a bit looser.

3. Askarov
I like the athleticism. One of the best plays in hockey is the pad save followed by a stretch pad save. Just a satisfying thud and I've seen him do it a few times. He's constantly setting and resetting his position as a play unfolds. Athletic goalies can get caught chasing a play, but he doesn't rely on quickness and seems to respect the technical aspects. The right glove hand is a fun bonus.
For a while I was sold on the Florida model - sit on a young core and pull the trigger when a star goalie hits the market. Then this year happened and I'm reconsidering.
My worry with Askarov is that he's with SKA, and he might not come over or even be ready to make a cup run until Bert Larkin and Mantha are 30+. Optimistically, after his SKA contract he could come over for the 2022-2023 season, and given an NHL scout thinks he's almost NHL ready now, he could be our starter in 2 years.

4. Drysdale
Saw him compared to Rafalski and I appreciated that. Not as big on him as the top 3 but I'd be ok with the pick.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The wings have been stuck with average at best (I would say Howard was above average at his best but whatever) because they haven't really tried to actually address it. You can get average goaltending without even trying to address it it all, in a couple years when the wings are ready to compete and they try to address it they will find something that works.

The Blues might have reminded you that, but I dont think they help your case at all. It just shows how volatile the position is really. A 4th string goalie with no NHL experience, drafted 8 years ago in the third round can come up and get hot enough to win a cup. 4th round pick Holtby wins it the year before, the Penguins finally ditch their first overall pick goalie with a late third rounder and they win, 2nd round Crawford the year before that, 3rd round Quick before that. You have to go back to 2009 to find a first round cup winning goalie and that team needed 2 generational players and multiple other top 5 picks to win that cup. That first overall pick goalie had the worst 5 year run in arguably NHL history in the playoffs and probably actually cost his team an extra cup or 2.

The last decade, what do teams who win the cup have in common? They dont use really big assets to acquire a goalie thats good enough to win. Even these young elite goalies now, who has made it in the NHL and done anything? Vasilevsky has backstopped the team that has failed the most in the playoffs while being the best regular season team, including a horrible showing in the playoffs last year. And he wasnt a fourth overall, he was an extra first round pick in the draft.

The best young goalie to me is probably Gibson, a second rounder (Vasi is right there though). The best goaltending prospect/up and comer is Hart, a second rounder.

So I guess, find me a team in the last decade or two that has used that high of a pick on a goalie and been successful? The Pens won one cup and probably lost one or two because of theirs. I dont really care if the Panthers took a guy like Knight high, because that team has been bad forever and he wasnt close to 4th overall

MAF played in both of those later runs and absolutely played a big part in one of those years.

Quick, Holtby and Crawford all became high paid goalies, so under that logic most that argue against goalies would have cut bait. The never pick a goalie before pick 150 crowd or maybe it is 160 in terms of guys like Iyer are also missing on oh wait none of those goalies would be around, so we have gone a decade where one goalie meets the hey we can hang around until deep in the draft or just find a UFA guy, even he is really a waiver case that stayed in his organization... The most common point out, isn't happening. I mean sure we can hope to get lucky, that isn't really a building strategy in my opinion.

I am not even in the draft Askarov department anymore, but I just would prefer it over some other picks for sure, most notable for me he is a far better pick than Rossi in my opinion.

No team has won a Stanley Cup without at least above average play out of their goaltender. If you don't have it you're not even a playoff team, if you have a cup winning capable team you will languish until hopefully you get a guy that can put it together like St. Louis. I get the position can be very fickle, but that doesn't mean you just throw up your hands and say oh well. By the way you know who clearly feels that way about the position..... Our GM so that probably matters more. He addressed it with several assets and bigger contracts so my guess is @Bench doesn't have to wait long to be with the organization at some point on this argument, that is certainly Yzerman's track record on the position. That it is very important.

 

[Bench]

By the way you know who clearly feels that way about the position..... Our GM so that probably matters more. He addressed it with several assets and bigger contracts so my guess is @Bench doesn't have to wait long to be with the organization at some point on this argument, that is certainly Yzerman's track record on the position. That it is very important.

This is why I sleep so well at night.

EDIT:

I should note for people that while I feel Askarov is the most exciting prospect available at #4, that does not mean I believe he needs to be selected nor will I be upset if he isn't by the Red Wings. Disappointed, not upset. I also don't believe it will be Yzerman's pick. Assuming no wild lottery jumps, I think Chicago or Minnesota look like landing spots for the Russian. Dark horse to New Jersey, as they have 3 picks in the top 20 - depending how much belief they have in Blackwood.

Chicago getting Dach and Askarov is successive years would be really awful for my hockey mental wellness.

Ultimately, I know Yzerman will prioritize finding strong goaltending via draft or otherwise in the coming years, I'm not worried that the position is addressed in this immediate moment.

 

[Frk It]

This is why I sleep so well at night.

EDIT:

I should note for people that while I feel Askarov is the most exciting prospect available at #4, that does not mean I believe he needs to be selected nor will I be upset if he isn't by the Red Wings. Disappointed, not upset. I also don't believe it will be Yzerman's pick. Assuming no wild lottery jumps, I think Chicago or Minnesota look like landing spots for the Russian. Dark horse to New Jersey, as they have 3 picks in the top 20 - depending how much belief they have in Blackwood.

Chicago getting Dach and Askarov is successive years would be really awful for my hockey mental wellness.

Ultimately, I know Yzerman will prioritize finding strong goaltending via draft or otherwise in the coming years, I'm not worried that the position is addressed in this immediate moment.

Nico Daws at eliteprospects.com

We could always take him in round 2-3, and give Seider a fellow German (born there at least) back there to keep him company.

 

[Frk It]

This is why I sleep so well at night.

EDIT:

I should note for people that while I feel Askarov is the most exciting prospect available at #4, that does not mean I believe he needs to be selected nor will I be upset if he isn't by the Red Wings. Disappointed, not upset. I also don't believe it will be Yzerman's pick. Assuming no wild lottery jumps, I think Chicago or Minnesota look like landing spots for the Russian. Dark horse to New Jersey, as they have 3 picks in the top 20 - depending how much belief they have in Blackwood.

Chicago getting Dach and Askarov is successive years would be really awful for my hockey mental wellness.

Ultimately, I know Yzerman will prioritize finding strong goaltending via draft or otherwise in the coming years, I'm not worried that the position is addressed in this immediate moment.

Also... remember this kid's name Bench. If he does not get drafted this year, I think he will most definitely get drafted next year. Had an unreal season in the OHL as a 16/17 year old.

 

[newfy]

MAF played in both of those later runs and absolutely played a big part in one of those years.

Quick, Holtby and Crawford all became high paid goalies, so under that logic most that argue against goalies would have cut bait. The never pick a goalie before pick 150 crowd or maybe it is 160 in terms of guys like Iyer are also missing on oh wait none of those goalies would be around, so we have gone a decade where one goalie meets the hey we can hang around until deep in the draft or just find a UFA guy, even he is really a waiver case that stayed in his organization... The most common point out, isn't happening. I mean sure we can hope to get lucky, that isn't really a building strategy in my opinion.

I am not even in the draft Askarov department anymore, but I just would prefer it over some other picks for sure, most notable for me he is a far better pick than Rossi in my opinion.

No team has won a Stanley Cup without at least above average play out of their goaltender. If you don't have it you're not even a playoff team, if you have a cup winning capable team you will languish until hopefully you get a guy that can put it together like St. Louis. I get the position can be very fickle, but that doesn't mean you just throw up your hands and say oh well. By the way you know who clearly feels that way about the position..... Our GM so that probably matters more. He addressed it with several assets and bigger contracts so my guess is @Bench doesn't have to wait long to be with the organization at some point on this argument, that is certainly Yzerman's track record on the position. That it is very important.

MAF cost the pens more than he helped them before we even consider the draft capital they used on him.

Quick Holtby and Crawford becoming highly paid just helps make my point. They didnt have to invest high draft capital to get a good goalie. The wings have 3 second rounders, why would they use their 4th overall when they have 3 second rounders to address the position? I'm not against a high drafted goalie, I've even said a late first is fine. But pretending 4th overall is a good idea is just stupid to me given whats available in free agency and where cup winning goalies are consistently drafted.

Yzerman has addressed the goalie position a couple times in Tampaand never used close to a 4th overall pick to do so. He'll find creative ways to do it again and not waste a 4th overall on a guy who might have 2 or 3 years at best where he separates himself from the other above average goalies in the league.

As for your point about no team winning without above average goaltending, I would say MAF in 2009 was pretty average. They had 2 genertional players in their prime and help from the leagueso its a weird circumstance but still, it can be done. Overall, I'm not saying dont address goaltending. I'm saying using a 4th overall to do it is dumb

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

MAF cost the pens more than he helped them before we even consider the draft capital they used on him.

Quick Holtby and Crawford becoming highly paid just helps make my point. They didnt have to invest high draft capital to get a good goalie. The wings have 3 second rounders, why would they use their 4th overall when they have 3 second rounders to address the position? I'm not against a high drafted goalie, I've even said a late first is fine. But pretending 4th overall is a good idea is just stupid to me given whats available in free agency and where cup winning goalies are consistently drafted.

Yzerman has addressed the goalie position a couple times in Tampaand never used close to a 4th overall pick to do so. He'll find creative ways to do it again and not waste a 4th overall on a guy who might have 2 or 3 years at best where he separates himself from the other above average goalies in the league.

As for your point about no team winning without above average goaltending, I would say MAF in 2009 was pretty average. They had 2 genertional players in their prime and help from the leagueso its a weird circumstance but still, it can be done. Overall, I'm not saying dont address goaltending. I'm saying using a 4th overall to do it is dumb

He was better than Crosby in that winning series against us...

I mean people do remember him being the third best center in that series for the Pens or does that just get golden child blinked out of existence if you live in Canada?

MAF delivered big for them that first cup, he was critical to that win. He was pretty important during one of their back to back runs too.

He is going to be a HHOF guy, people should start making peace with that in terms of the crowd that looks down on him.

 

[jkutswings]

Chicago getting Dach and Askarov is successive years would be really awful for my hockey mental wellness.

Nah. It'll be just like Hasek - Chicago won't really know what they have, he'll go to Buffalo, shine for several years but hate being part of a bad franchise, then come here to win a Cup.

 

[lilidk]

Perfetti one more year in CHL and then
Perfetti-Rasmussen-Svechnikov