Who wins the best of 5 between the Blue Jackets and the Leafs?

[leafsfan5]

I'm going with the team that has won a series in the last decade and a half.

Excellent point. I'm going with Toronto due to their 13 cup wins though, I feel it will really matter here

 

[LeafsNation75]

The Leafs had a power play with 10 minutes left in game 7 down 3-1 and switched up the units halfway.....that's all we need to say to show the terrible coaching Babs was doing. This guy would rather switch the units than give a top 3 goal scorer a full PP with the season on the line

At least Sheldon Keefe decided not take off their #1 power play line when there was 1:00 minute left since Babcock would always do that.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Rielly played in 47/70 games and Muzzin played in 53/70 games. While it might not fit your description of "most of the season" they were still significant injuries to Toronto and if they were 100% healthy maybe the Leafs would have finished top 4 in the East guaranteeing a playoff spot and not having to play in the play in round series.

My description ?

Really, my description ?

You're funny...

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

In last years Game 7 he played Matthews a total of 18:48 which was unacceptable given how great Matthews had been playing that whole series. Toronto was only losing 2-1 at the start of the 3rd period and even though Boston made it 3-1 at the 2:40 mark, it wasn't unreasobable to think if they make it 3-2 that they could possibly tie the game. However Babcock stuck to his line matching and refused to change his coaching methods. That should have got him fired the next day, instead of when it happened in November 2019.

18:48 is still first line minutes is it not? Forwards don't generally play 20+.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Rielly played in 47/70 games and Muzzin played in 53/70 games. While it might not fit your description of "most of the season" they were still significant injuries to Toronto and if they were 100% healthy maybe the Leafs would have finished top 4 in the East guaranteeing a playoff spot and not having to play in the play in round series.

So to summarize then they didn’t miss ‘most of last season’.
The witness may step down now your honour.

 

[LeafsNation75]

18:48 is still first line minutes is it not? Forwards don't generally play 20+.

Matthews had wanted to play over 20:00 + minutes and the majority of the time Babcock didn't care. It was only after Sheldon Keefe took over that his ice time went up.

In the 2018-2019 season his average ice time was 18:33 and in the 2019-2020 season his average went up to 20:58, so you don't think it's a coincidence that Babcock gets fired and his minutes go up.

Auston Matthews Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[LeafsNation75]

So to summarize then they didn’t miss ‘most of last season’.
The witness may step down now your honour.

Actually to summarize their injuries and all the other ones that Tavares, Marner and others had did effect them this season. So we are just pointing that out and others seem to think we are wrong for doing that.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Rielly played in 47/70 games and Muzzin played in 53/70 games. While it might not fit your description of "most of the season" they were still significant injuries to Toronto and if they were 100% healthy maybe the Leafs would have finished top 4 in the East guaranteeing a playoff spot and not having to play in the play in round series.

And if cows had wings, we would need better umbrellas...

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Matthews had wanted to play over 20:00 + minutes and the majority of the time Babcock didn't care. It was only after Sheldon Keefe took over that his ice time went up.

In the 2018-2019 season his average ice time was 18:33 and in the 2019-2020 season his average went up to 20:58, so you don't think it's a coincidence that Babcock gets fired and his minutes go up.

Auston Matthews Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

I guess we will have see if that works in the more physical playoffs. Seems a bit extreme when you have Tavares and a pretty good, offensive capable 3rd line also.

 

[Pyrophorus]

If CBJ is healthy and ready to go, I like the way they match up against Toronto. I could see it being similar to the sweep against Tampa last season. This is one of those series, though, that I think will be decisive either way. Intriguing matchup!

I don't see how. The teams are similar, their mindsets will be different.

 

[Paul4587]

There’s a pretty huge discrepancy between the forward units in Toronto’s favor but also the d core which is in the Jackets favor. Think it comes down to goaltending and while Columbus is unknown in that department Freddie has had more than one meltdown when it comes to crunch time.

So I voted Columbus.

 

[wintersej]

No one has disputed that the Blue Jackets had their own injuries this season.

However when Leafs fans bring up their injuries and that their lineup was never 100% healthy all season because of last years offseason surgery's for Zach Hyamn and Travis Dermott, it's still true that they had their own injuries which effected them all season.

The Leafs had not been hit with injuries the last few years. The Leafs got hit with injuries this year. The Leafs did not get hit with an abnormal amount of injuries this year.

Regardless... I think the thread can go in a better direction than comparing injuries.

 

[wintersej]

I voted for Toronto as a Bruins fan. Partly because I think they are a better team. Partly because I would rather play Toronto than risk the Bluejackets leaving the Bruins injured by the end of the series. Will be interesting to see which one of these teams makes the playoffs!

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Flip a coin.

It's going to be interesting. Don't feel like the Leafs match up well against the two B's.

A Bruins, Bluejackets series would be pretty good.

But if anyone has been watching bundesliga since it came back, the no fans thing and the microscope of that seems to have made the reffereing very fair. So that's an interesting thing to me.

Flip a coin on every player on each team staying in shape as well. It's going to be interesting at the very least.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I'll go with Toronto, but it'll be a close one.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The Leafs had not been hit with injuries the last few years. The Leafs got hit with injuries this year. The Leafs did not get hit with an abnormal amount of injuries this year.

Regardless... I think the thread can go in a better direction than comparing injuries.

Here is a breakdown of injuries for both teams from this past season.

Games Missed

Matthews 0 - Dubois 0
Marner 11 --- Atkinson 26
Nylander 2 -- Nyquist 0

Tavares 7 ----- Jenner 0
Hyman 19 ---- Foligno 3
Mikheyev 31 - Bjorkstrand 21

Kerfoot 5 ----- Wennberg 13
Kapanen 1 --- Stenlund ?
Johnsson* 27 - Anderson* 44 (both likely still injured)


Rielly 23 ------- Jones 14
Muzzin 17 ---- Werenski 7

Barrie 0 -------- Savard 2
Ceci 14 ---------- Murray 43

Holl 0 ------------ Gavrikov 0
Dermott 14 ---- Nutivaara ?

 

[CraigsList]

It really depends on who shows up. Columbus has the coach with a LOT of experience, and Toronto has a better roster on paper. Could see it going 5 games, maybe an OT or two.

 

[wintersej]

Here is a breakdown of injuries for both teams from this past season.

Games Missed

Matthews 0 - Dubois 0
Marner 11 --- Atkinson 26
Nylander 2 -- Nyquist 0

Tavares 7 ----- Jenner 0
Hyman 19 ---- Foligno 3
Mikheyev 31 - Bjorkstrand 21

Kerfoot 5 ----- Wennberg 13
Kapanen 1 --- Stenlund ?
Johnsson* 27 - Anderson* 44 (both likely still injured)


Rielly 23 ------- Jones 14
Muzzin 17 ---- Werenski 7

Barrie 0 -------- Savard 2
Ceci 14 ---------- Murray 43

Holl 0 ------------ Gavrikov 0
Dermott 14 ---- Nutivaara ?

don’t understand your point. Looks to me the two teams both dealt with a normal amount of injuries.

 

[Cogburn]

let's compare both teams forward group outside of each of their top 4 forwards (which Toronto blows Columbus out of the water in) and see how they stack up

Hyman > Foligno
Mikheyev > Milano
Kapanen > Wennberg
Johnsson >= Texier
Spezza >= Bemstrom
Kerfoot < Jenner
Clifford = Nash
Engvall < Anderson (he had a terrible year but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt)
So how does Columbus have better depth?

Columbus definitely has a better blueline, there is no denying that but I don't think the gap is nearly as large as many people make it out to be.

You're usually only using 1 goalie in the playoffs anyways and although Elvis was better than Freddie this year, it's tough to take Elvis over Freddie when you consider the body of work Freddie has put in over the past 4 or 5 years.

Columbus also has as many points, from wins, and is 58 goals fewer despite the unsexy match up of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares versus Dubois, Bjokrstrand, Jenner and Atkinson. Yes, defenseman factor into the equation, but I'd have to think Toronto's big four are worth more than 15 goals more then each of their matched up Blue Jackets' players. I know this seems an unfair shot, but Columbus' guys are half the cost of Toronto's too. I'm not trying to use this as a dig, and I'd even drop Dubois and any of Toronto's big four from that comparison, but each of Toronto's players should be more then 15 goals better than the big four on Columbus. This all factors into my comments about better depth.

Goals (combined for all 4) are 120 for Toronto and 62 for Columbus.

Goals is just an arbitrary and easy to track and compare stat I'm using as well. I'm using it to show that it's not the whole story, similar to looking at one player as a direct comparison to one other player as a comparison of depth. As I said, defensemen also factor into the offense as well....the difference is 16 goals for Columbus' superior blueline squad. So again, it's not a perfect line up for one stat, but it still shows me that Columbus put up the same number of points, and was down 58 goals (I'm not saying that's a small amount, and again it's an arbitrary stat) despite being unquestionably outclassed in terms of their top end talent at the forward position...that shows me that there is something we're not seeing doing a 1 to 1 comparison down the roster.

 

[majormajor]

that shows me that there is something we're not seeing doing a 1 to 1 comparison down the roster.

Yeah obviously people are just looking at offensive production, comparing players from a highly defensive system (third fewest goals against) with a highly offensive system (5th most goals against). That's not going to be a fair comparison.

 

[Just Linda]

In a playoff battle between offense and defense, I'll go with defense. Jackets are a bad matchup for the Leafs. I don't see the Jackets going far in the playoffs, I can't see them getting past Boston or Washington but I can see them taking away Toronto's time and space enough to give Toronto too much trouble. If Columbus can shut down the top 2 lines, I don't see Toronto having enough depth to survive.

 

[Cogburn]

Yeah obviously people are just looking at offensive production, comparing players from a highly defensive system (third fewest goals against) with a highly offensive system (5th most goals against). That's not going to be a fair comparison.

I'm saying even in spite of that, the overall spread doesn't show me that Toronto has the depth to beat Columbus', despite missing the advantage of Marner, Matthews, Nylander and Tavares leading the offense.

Coaching and play style wasn't touched on, but that plays into what I was saying versus the overall result of the teams being very similar. Plus, again, showing the difference in goals from the rest of the team, on a more defensive team, boosts the "Columbus has better depth" argument.

 

[majormajor]

Here is a breakdown of injuries for both teams from this past season.

Games Missed

Matthews 0 - Dubois 0
Marner 11 --- Atkinson 26
Nylander 2 -- Nyquist 0

Tavares 7 ----- Jenner 0
Hyman 19 ---- Foligno 3
Mikheyev 31 - Bjorkstrand 21

Kerfoot 5 ----- Wennberg 13
Kapanen 1 --- Stenlund ?
Johnsson* 27 - Anderson* 44 (both likely still injured)


Rielly 23 ------- Jones 14
Muzzin 17 ---- Werenski 7

Barrie 0 -------- Savard 2
Ceci 14 ---------- Murray 43

Holl 0 ------------ Gavrikov 0
Dermott 14 ---- Nutivaara ?

Stenlund? Wow you really know the Jackets roster.

The Jackets top 4 forwards coming into the year were Dubois, Bjorkstrand, Anderson, and Atkinson. All but Dubois missed significant time. The Leafs big 4 was relatively unscathed.

 

[majormajor]

I'm saying even in spite of that, the overall spread doesn't show me that Toronto has the depth to beat Columbus', despite missing the advantage of Marner, Matthews, Nylander and Tavares leading the offense.

Coaching and play style wasn't touched on, but that plays into what I was saying versus the overall result of the teams being very similar. Plus, again, showing the difference in goals from the rest of the team, on a more defensive team, boosts the "Columbus has better depth" argument.

I think both clubs have good offensive depth. If I'm a Leafs fan I'd be more concerned about playstyle issues in the bottom six. Like the shutdown presence is just lacking.

 

[IPS]

Stenlund? Wow you really know the Jackets roster.

The Jackets top 4 forwards coming into the year were Dubois, Bjorkstrand, Anderson, and Atkinson. All but Dubois missed significant time. The Leafs big 4 was relatively unscathed.

Did you not notice our injuries on defense or is that not convenient for the narrative?