We are gonna pretend their peers weren't juiced too? It was a level playing field.Just get Clemens and Bonds in there already. Steroids or not, they were great ball players regardless.
if andruw jones is a HOF'er then jim edmonds should be too but he dropped off the ballot immediatelyTop 3, Manny, Kent, Rolen, Sheffield, and Andruw.
If i had to do 10, Sosa and Wagner i suppose would be added.
The same reason we pretend Pete Rose is the only player/manager to have ever bet on Baseball.We are gonna pretend their peers weren't juiced too? It was a level playing field.
Terrible comparisonBonds*, Clemens*, Rose*, and Schilling. Asterisks for the cheaters.
The same reason we pretend Pete Rose is the only player/manager to have ever bet on Baseball.
Not at all. Broke the rules in both cases. You're arguing that because these guys got caught, they should be exempt because "Surely others were breaking the rules too!" Right?Terrible comparison
if andruw jones is a HOF'er then jim edmonds should be too but he dropped off the ballot immediately
yeah baines getting in really lowered the bar for a HOF that had already set a low bar in recent years by inducting guys like hoffmanJim Edmonds and Kenny Lofton were two guys who should have gotten more consideration but were victims of a stacked ballot and fell off after their first year. If the Veterans Committee is going to elect Harold Baines, then they should give those two guys serious consideration somewhere down line.
Not saying Baines should be the new bar, but it opened a can of worms. Another example or the bar being lowered, I don't think Billy Wagner is a hall of famer, but he was better than recent elections Trevor Hoffman and Lee Smith.
Not surely. We know.Not at all. Broke the rules
in both cases. You're arguing that because these guys got caught, they should be exempt because "Surely others were breaking the rules too!" Right?
...I think Pete Rose should be in but the reason why he isn’t is completely different from why voters won’t put Bonds and Clemens in.
Cy Seymour (16) | 119 | L | |
Bill Skowron (14) | 119 | R | |
Red Smith (9) | 119 | R | |
Vern Stephens (15) | 119 | R | |
Andy Van Slyke (13) | 119 | L | |
Tom York (15) | 119 |
.303 | .375 | .409 | .784 | 118 |
It's different literally, but in both cases they broke the rules. Though I freely admit, the steroids issue is a bit more cloudy than gambling for sure.Not surely. We know.
There are already cheaters in the HOF.
I think Pete Rose should be in but the reason why he isn’t is completely different from why voters won’t put Bonds and Clemens in.
Yes I know PEDs for Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and Ramirez, but honestly anyone who watched these men play can tell they were bound to be all-time greats with or without steroids period
Agree to disagree, but his average OPS+ his first 7 years in PITT was 146.4 which is a very good and HoF number.If you completely wipe out 1999-2002, the years Bonds supposedly used, frome his resume he's still a top 10 player of all time.
Are you serious?
LOL I watched Sosa before the PED's and he was barely on track to be a #4 OF
Clemens and Bonds were great players before using and tarnished legacy
Sosa would have had no legacy to tarnish if not using
HOF for Clemens + Bonds can be argued given their play before PED's
Sosa has no place in HOF
If you completely wipe out 1999-2002, the years Bonds supposedly used, frome his resume he's still a top 10 player of all time.
I would think he used them longer than that