Who should Detroit avoid at 4th ?

[Henkka]

This will be fun results to look after Yzerman makes the pick.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

I would take Sanderson over Drysdale every time, because he is left handed defenseman. Best picks for us would be Rossi,
Sanderson, Raymond, Askarov exactly in this order. I would not touch Perfetti, that dude have word bust written all over him.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

I voted no on Raymond, Perfetti and Drysdale. IMO they're 7-10 range guys,

But you left up there Holtz, Rossi, and Lundell? You see those guys as more logical 4th overall picks than Drysdale??

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

But you left up there Holtz, Rossi, and Lundell? You see those guys as more logical 4th overall picks than Drysdale??

Yes. I think Rossi has a lot of potential,a great work ethic and attention to details that will make him a very good to great NHLer.
Lundell had a good season against men and has a very high floor. He could be that prime Jordan Staal type 3rd line center or better.
Of the terror twins, I prefer Holtz because he's a better goalscorer and I think he'll have an easier transition to the big league. Raymond looks like he weighs 165 while wearing soaking wet equipment.
I feel like I'm a broken record saying it, but I do not see high end potential from Drysdale. I don't think he turns into that 50+ point, 25 minute a night number one defenseman. I think he'll be a fair to middling 2nd pairing defenseman who gets 30 points a season. Good passer, but not great. Good footwork but not great top end speed. He's only ranked so high because this draft is a very weak defensive draft. In an average year he'd be outside of the top 10.

 

[ricky0034]

please no Askarov/Lundell/Sanderson

the rest I could live with(even though I have reservations with Rossi and would rather avoid Holtz on fit)

 

[newfy]

I don't get it. What about Rossi are you uncomfortable with?

I dont like that a lot of people think Rossi is what he is. Hes probably one of the safer players in the draft to be solid but lower upside than most in the same range for the draft. Hes one of the oldest in the draft, people say hes already very physically mature and he already has trained like a pro for years. How much more can he do to improve himself? That combined with his tiny height makes me uncomfortable.

I could see him becoming a 60 point center, 2nd line type but theres some guys that will be around at 4 that have 90 point potential or number one dman upside.

 

[GOZetterberg]

Voted everyone but Raymond/Rossi/Drysdale

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I want Rossi or Raymond, but I could be talked into Perfetti if he can really play center.

Everyone else in that spot feels like adding to the few spots we have talent at.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

I dont like that a lot of people think Rossi is what he is. Hes probably one of the safer players in the draft to be solid but lower upside than most in the same range for the draft. Hes one of the oldest in the draft, people say hes already very physically mature and he already has trained like a pro for years. How much more can he do to improve himself? That combined with his tiny height makes me uncomfortable.

I could see him becoming a 60 point center, 2nd line type but theres some guys that will be around at 4 that have 90 point potential or number one dman upside.

I’m not the biggest Rossi fan, but the narrative that he’s a finished product is baffling. HES 18!! I don’t care what I did or how I lived my life when I was 18, I was an entire different person physically and mentally when I was 24. I don’t see how you knock the guy for training and eating like a pro. Maybe that’s why he crushed the f***ing league.

 

[newfy]

I’m not the biggest Rossi fan, but the narrative that he’s a finished product is baffling. HES 18!! I don’t care what I did or how I lived my life when I was 18, I was an entire different person physically and mentally when I was 24. I don’t see how you knock the guy for training and eating like a pro. Maybe that’s why he crushed the f***ing league.

Yeah but a comparison of yourself to a professional athlete is pointless to make. If at 16 you were eating and training like a pro athlete, your body would've changed a lot less from 18-24 than it did. People hit their physical peaks at different times and Rossi training the way he has has brought him closer to that physical peak sooner than a lot of his peers. Being able to crush the OHL doesnt mean going forward hes going to be better equipped in the NHL, just that hes closer to his physical peak.

Everyone knows the kid that could grow a beard in like grade 8 vs the kid who didnt get his first facial hair until university. Obviously theyre both going to develop from 18-24, but one has a hell of a lot more developing to do than the other and one is much closer to their adult body. Thats a fair comparison for Rossi and Perfetti in this situation. And even though he was way less physically developed, Perfetti was able to dominate to a similar level as Rossi. WHen he gets the physical gains, odds are he'll be even better

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I dont like that a lot of people think Rossi is what he is. Hes probably one of the safer players in the draft to be solid but lower upside than most in the same range for the draft. Hes one of the oldest in the draft, people say hes already very physically mature and he already has trained like a pro for years. How much more can he do to improve himself? That combined with his tiny height makes me uncomfortable.

I could see him becoming a 60 point center, 2nd line type but theres some guys that will be around at 4 that have 90 point potential or number one dman upside.

Can you imagine someone saying, "We shouldnt draft that Leon Draisaitl kid. He's one of the oldest players in the draft!" ?

...Neither can I.

 

[newfy]

Can you imagine someone saying, "We shouldnt draft that Leon Draisaitl kid. He's one of the oldest players in the draft!" ?

...Neither can I.

Its not about just being old, its the physically mature/training aspect more than his age. I could imagine people saying it if they thought he wasnt going to be able to make big gains in his skating because his legs are already tree trunks but skated slow. I could definitely see them saying it if he was 5'8 as well

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Can you imagine someone saying, "We shouldnt draft that Leon Draisaitl kid. He's one of the oldest players in the draft!" ?

...Neither can I.

As someone that had him as the top forward in my draft one of the things you could say about Leon Draisaitl was he was just scratching the surface of what he could be. He has a nice stride, but he needs to get the strength in it and get a step or two in his skating which was the biggest worry. But he was very much a work in progress. What I liked about both him and Pettersson was the projections on what they could become. Part of why I am sky high on Byfield this year is there is more in there as an athlete and hockey player.

I don't think there is more in there with Rossi. Credit to him he does everything right already. But he is an older player that has prepared like a pro for well over three years. I think he is what he is to a large extent and I don't think that translates up. Certainly not like a power-forward frame with absolutely elite hands in Draisaitl. Draisaitl was dubbed the German Gretzky as a 14 year old and he demolished every scoring record in the history of Germany in the lower leagues before coming over. He was a guy I followed closely for years, I am not surprised by what he became.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Yeah but a comparison of yourself to a professional athlete is pointless to make. If at 16 you were eating and training like a pro athlete, your body would've changed a lot less from 18-24 than it did. People hit their physical peaks at different times and Rossi training the way he has has brought him closer to that physical peak sooner than a lot of his peers. Being able to crush the OHL doesnt mean going forward hes going to be better equipped in the NHL, just that hes closer to his physical peak.

Everyone knows the kid that could grow a beard in like grade 8 vs the kid who didnt get his first facial hair until university. Obviously theyre both going to develop from 18-24, but one has a hell of a lot more developing to do than the other and one is much closer to their adult body. Thats a fair comparison for Rossi and Perfetti in this situation. And even though he was way less physically developed, Perfetti was able to dominate to a similar level as Rossi. WHen he gets the physical gains, odds are he'll be even better

I didn’t compare myself to an athlete, I compared myself to myself. He will be a different person at 24 than he is today, no matter how he lives today.

 

[newfy]

I didn’t compare myself to an athlete, I compared myself to myself. He will be a different person at 24 than he is today, no matter how he lives today.

Yes but the whole point of scouting is to see who will change the most and improve in that time frame. The odds of Rossi being the one who changes the least are pretty high given all the information we have about him.

He'll be different at 24 obviously, everyone is, but will probably change noticeably less than most of the guys near him in the draft. I dont know why this is even being discussed, its one of the simplest and most obvious things that scouts do and discuss come draft time. Its literally projecting for the future

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Its not about just being old, its the physically mature/training aspect more than his age. I could imagine people saying it if they thought he wasnt going to be able to make big gains in his skating because his legs are already tree trunks but skated slow. I could definitely see them saying it if he was 5'8 as well

I don't get why you think Rossi is slow. He's one of the best skaters in the draft. He's not a burner but he has great acceleration and is one of the most agile skaters in this draft. Far better than Perfetti in every skating category. However, just like Perfetti, Rossi's offensive game is all about slowing down the pace to find holes and he does this just as well as Perfetti does. On top of being equally talented as Perfetti is offensively, Rossi is Charlie Hustle on the backcheck. Seriously, watch Rossi create separation between him and someone checking him, or how quickly he gets on top of the other team's puck carrier.

Yes, Rossi is more physically mature than Perfetti now. That doesn't mean he will stop improving as a hockey player. Yes, he is a few months older but that also does not mean that his potential is capped now. Rossi also has the added benefit of being able to play in Europe next season. If he does well overseas then I think that will solidify his position in the draft.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don't get why you think Rossi is slow. He's one of the best skaters in the draft. He's not a burner but he has great acceleration and is one of the most agile skaters in this draft. Far better than Perfetti in every skating category. However, just like Perfetti, Rossi's offensive game is all about slowing down the pace to find holes and he does this just as well as Perfetti does. On top of being equally talented as Perfetti is offensively, Rossi is Charlie Hustle on the backcheck. Seriously, watch Rossi create separation between him and someone checking him, or how quickly he gets on top of the other team's puck carrier.

Yes, Rossi is more physically mature than Perfetti now. That doesn't mean he will stop improving as a hockey player. Yes, he is a few months older but that also does not mean that his potential is capped now. Rossi also has the added benefit of being able to play in Europe next season. If he does well overseas then I think that will solidify his position in the draft.

I completely disagree that his skating is good at all. Not from what I have seen aside from when he is given half the ice surface to speed up which is a junior thing that doesn't happen in the league. I don't see great acceleration, I find him to be a worse skater than Perfetti in every single regard. I do think he is stronger on the puck, but again I think that goes away from him to some degree, guys like Mo Seider are the guys trying to dislodge the puck from him at the next level. He is also far less elusive than Perfetti and doesn't have the one on one ability or puck skills.

I do think Europe is big for him. Given him being a year older anything short of what Matthews was doing as an 18 year old in Switzerland should be kind of flag for a top 5 scenario. I think he had as ideal of a season as he could this year, for him to build on it he has to be dynamite in Europe. I think more likely we get our first indication that against men his lack of skating and size become a bigger issue.

I think Raymond is the player that will benefit most from having more time to prove a case to NHL teams with a fall start. We will see. I don't view Rossi like you at all. I agree that he works his butt off, he also played for the most loaded team in the OHL where working hard isn't quite as tough when the other team has thrown up the white flag, I think it helped him massively in a lot of areas people are championing him for. His puck pursuit wasn't there a whole lot when it was the other big guns in the league because they can simply skate away from him.

He is an average to below average skater to me, with pretty average agility (some find this to be better than I do) and explosiveness. I haven't seen the kind of skating consistently out of him to generate anything that makes me want him in the top 10. I will admit industry types for the most part disagree with me there, putting him more in the 5 through 10 range, but still a reach at #4 with McKenzie's rankings out. Not a single team he talked to and I don't believe we are one has him at #4. I hope we are also not ranking him there.

 

[newfy]

I don't get why you think Rossi is slow. He's one of the best skaters in the draft. He's not a burner but he has great acceleration and is one of the most agile skaters in this draft. Far better than Perfetti in every skating category. However, just like Perfetti, Rossi's offensive game is all about slowing down the pace to find holes and he does this just as well as Perfetti does. On top of being equally talented as Perfetti is offensively, Rossi is Charlie Hustle on the backcheck. Seriously, watch Rossi create separation between him and someone checking him, or how quickly he gets on top of the other team's puck carrier.

Yes, Rossi is more physically mature than Perfetti now. That doesn't mean he will stop improving as a hockey player. Yes, he is a few months older but that also does not mean that his potential is capped now. Rossi also has the added benefit of being able to play in Europe next season. If he does well overseas then I think that will solidify his position in the draft.

I dont think Rossi is slow, he doesnt have a great top speed but I've said in the past hes a solid skater. Hes definitely not on of the best skaters in the draft though thats a pretty outrageous take.

Hes also not equally as talented as Perfetti offensively in my eyes and if because Perfetti is less physically mature he can take his skating up a notch, Perfetti projects to be better offensively than Rossi in the NHL. Perfettis shot is world class already

And no, obviously being older and more physically mature doesnt mean he'll stop improving and I've never said that. But he has a lot less to gain than most people in the draft physically. I dont know how many ways I have to say this for it to be understood. His potential isnt capped but its easy to say its going to be harder for him to make athletic gains compared to a lot of these guys. This isnt just something I'm making up, its discussed by scouts whenever they talk about him "scouts wonder how much more untapped potential there might be versus some of the younger, less physically developed prospects, that Rossi might be more of a what-you-see-is- what-you-get player.", straight from Mackenzies final rankings

 

[Marky9er]

If Perfetti had half the defensive effort of Rossi, he'd have been on Team Canada and a top 3 pick. Instead he is garnering comparison to Art Kaliyev. He's an elite offensive talent, and he's brilliant but that's not the question. Will he put in the work? That's the question because you can't Brendl your way to the show.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I dont think Rossi is slow, he doesnt have a great top speed but I've said in the past hes a solid skater. Hes definitely not on of the best skaters in the draft though thats a pretty outrageous take.

Hes also not equally as talented as Perfetti offensively in my eyes and if because Perfetti is less physically mature he can take his skating up a notch, Perfetti projects to be better offensively than Rossi in the NHL. Perfettis shot is world class already

And no, obviously being older and more physically mature doesnt mean he'll stop improving and I've never said that. But he has a lot less to gain than most people in the draft physically. I dont know how many ways I have to say this for it to be understood. His potential isnt capped but its easy to say its going to be harder for him to make athletic gains compared to a lot of these guys. This isnt just something I'm making up, its discussed by scouts whenever they talk about him "scouts wonder how much more untapped potential there might be versus some of the younger, less physically developed prospects, that Rossi might be more of a what-you-see-is- what-you-get player.", straight from Mackenzies final rankings

I think it is average and if we are looking at NHL centers it would be slow...

 

[ArmChairGM89]

If Perfetti had half the defensive effort of Rossi, he'd have been on Team Canada and a top 3 pick. Instead he is garnering comparison to Art Kaliyev. He's an elite offensive talent, and he's brilliant but that's not the question. Will he put in the work? That's the question because you can't Brendl your way to the show.

Right, I don’t like dinging Rossi for being “developed already” because he’s a pros pro. He also destroyed the ohl by a wide margin. BECAUSE he’s a pros pro. If you don’t have that mentality you don’t have it so he should be praised for it. Is he going to develop less than these other guys? Idk, maybe. But he’s way ahead of them right now so what’s the difference.

I don’t even love Rossi. He’s one of like six guys I’d be okay with.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Holtz, Lundell, Askarov, Drysdale, and Sanderson. I think any of those listed sans Sanderson and Askarov would be fine picks, just not the pick I'd make, they're just a tier lower than Rossi, Raymond, and Stutzle. Sanderson really has no place being in the discussion for #4 imo, but the lack of defenceman has vaulted him up draft boards.

Also, as the chairman for the Rossi club I think it would be unbecoming of me to not pump his tires a bit. For those that are writing Rossi off due to his team you should look into his play at every other level. He was the straw that stirred the drink on the 67s and even if you think his points were inflated this season he has been phenomenal at all previous levels. He's been an elite player since he began playing in the Swiss system and continued to be one when he moved over the to NA. This isn't like Jack Quinn, where had a big year in his DY, he's been good his entire career thus far. He may be small and not an elite skater, but his skating doesn't hamper him and he has some of the best IQ in the draft. I think his size won't hurt him too much and he should be a center at the NHL level given his two-way ability.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I honestly would rather just trade down if Stutzle or Byfield don’t drop.

 

[Frk It]

If Perfetti had half the defensive effort of Rossi, he'd have been on Team Canada and a top 3 pick. Instead he is garnering comparison to Art Kaliyev. He's an elite offensive talent, and he's brilliant but that's not the question. Will he put in the work? That's the question because you can't Brendl your way to the show.

Huh? If you’re talking about the WJC, he didn’t make it because he was 17 and it’s just incredibly tough to make that team at 17.

He absolutely blew the doors off for Canada at the Hlinka. I have not heard these concerns about his defensive play or work ethic at all.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

There is no one to avoid other than Askarov. There is a group Of 12 guys in this draft who trend as impact players IMO. It sucks they lost out on the top 3 though.

I think they go forward. They need scoring more than anything and you can’t go wrong with a guy like Perfetti, Holtz or or Rossi. If they feel they need a big shutdown center than they can grab Lundell (he’s incredibly underrated imo and kind of reminds me of like a Ryan Kesler type).
I think Detroit is bad for another 3 years so take BPA and try not to overthink it as you guys will look a little better in a few years.