Who should Detroit avoid at 4th ?

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Mainly stay at home game that can move the puck, chip some offense and play extremely mean. Smooth skaters for their huge size. Prongers obviously going to be better but Seider looks very similar to his play style to me.

Not sure who you can think of out there thats a better comparison

I would never have characterized Pronger as a stay-at-home defenseman.

 

[newfy]

I would never have characterized Pronger as a stay-at-home defenseman.

Did you ever really see him rushing the puck? Same with Lidstrom. They stayed at the blue line in the offensive zone and didnt really jump in much at all. They produced with good passing and the ability to get shots through from the point ie they stayed at home. They were just 2 of the best to ever do it

 

[MBH]

Did you ever really see him rushing the puck? Same with Lidstrom. They stayed at the blue line in the offensive zone and didnt really jump in much at all. They produced with good passing and the ability to get shots through from the point ie they stayed at home. They were just 2 of the best to ever do it

Early in his career Lidstrom was a good puck rusher.
But as he aged he really didn't need to be with the Wings forwards.

 

[Bench]

Did you ever really see him rushing the puck? Same with Lidstrom. They stayed at the blue line in the offensive zone and didnt really jump in much at all. They produced with good passing and the ability to get shots through from the point ie they stayed at home. They were just 2 of the best to ever do it

I get what you're saying, but these phrases have common usage that you're kind of bucking.

Traditionally, Pronger would be called a "two-way" defenseman.

When you call someone stay-at-home, that's shorthand for a defender that does not emphasize creating offense and subsequent shot generation. Which would not describe either player you listed.

Basically, a stay-at-home defender with offense stops being labeled a stay-at-home defender. Even if said player is incredible at D and never misses defensive assignments.

 

[newfy]

I get what you're saying, but these phrases have common usage that you're kind of bucking.

Traditionally, Pronger would be called a "two-way" defenseman.

When you call someone stay-at-home, that's shorthand for a defender that does not emphasize creating offense and subsequent shot generation. Which would not describe either player you listed.

Basically, a stay-at-home defender with offense stops being labeled a stay-at-home defender. Even if said player is incredible at D and never misses defensive assignments.

Either way its semantics and what I said applies, Pronger and Seider play alike. If you dont want to say theyre stay at home guys thats fine but whoever it was saying that Pronger and Seider dont play alike is wrong imo

 

[Bench]

Either way its semantics and what I said applies, Pronger and Seider play alike. If you dont want to say theyre stay at home guys thats fine but whoever it was saying that Pronger and Seider dont play alike is wrong imo

Sure, but semantics matter so we can all understand one another. I don't have anything to add regarding your comparison, just trying to explain where Cyborg's surprise originated from.

Well, I guess I have one thing to add. That any comparable to Pronger is insanely lofty and it's been done so many times to prospects that never came anywhere near him, that people sort of tune those out.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Sure, but semantics matter so we can all understand one another. I don't have anything to add regarding your comparison, just trying to explain where Cyborg's surprise originated from.

Well, I guess I have one thing to add. That any comparable to Pronger is insanely lofty and it's been done so many times to prospects that never came anywhere near him, that people sort of tune those out.

So earlier, maybe in another thread, I compared Seider to LA D Mattias Norstrom & SJ D Magnus Ragnarsson. +a bit of Kenny Jonsson + Hamrlik?

 

[Winger98]

Sure, but semantics matter so we can all understand one another. I don't have anything to add regarding your comparison, just trying to explain where Cyborg's surprise originated from.

Well, I guess I have one thing to add. That any comparable to Pronger is insanely lofty and it's been done so many times to prospects that never came anywhere near him, that people sort of tune those out.

You know what, I'll throw a name out there. Derian Hatcher. Guy had underrated offensive chops, and Seider skates far better but...big, mean guy who might push the boundaries at times? Yeah, I could like me a modern, in his prime Derian Hatcher. Seider might not ever be as flat out dirty as Hatcher, but if we're looking for a less lofty comparison, I think that's there.

 

[Ricelund]

So earlier, maybe in another thread, I compared Seider to LA D Mattias Norstrom & SJ D Magnus Ragnarsson. +a bit of Kenny Jonsson + Hamrlik?

You know what, I'll throw a name out there. Derian Hatcher. Guy had underrated offensive chops, and Seider skates far better but...big, mean guy who might push the boundaries at times? Yeah, I could like me a modern, in his prime Derian Hatcher. Seider might not ever be as flat out dirty as Hatcher, but if we're looking for a less lofty comparison, I think that's there.

I've been saying Mattias Ohlund since Seider was drafted.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I've been saying Mattias Ohlund since Seider was drafted.

Willie Mitchell too.

 

[Winger98]

I've been saying Mattias Ohlund since Seider was drafted.

Ohlund is a good one. He was never given credit for being as physical as he was. Guy played a lot of hard minutes on those Vancouver teams.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Ohlund is a good one. He was never given credit for being as physical as he was. Guy played a lot of hard minutes on those Vancouver teams.

mid 00's to early 10's Van D was pretty deep. Ohlund, Salo, Edler, Mitchell, Bieksa (was decent then) etc.

 

[Ricelund]

mid 00's to early 10's Van D was pretty deep. Ohlund, Salo, Edler, Mitchell, Bieksa (was decent then) etc.

Hamhuis too.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Name this player?

Former 1st Rd. pick (post expansion '67).

Reg. & PO's

NHL Totals

1117

395

474

869

736

52

14

22

36

56

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

Hint: It's not a D ...

 

[FabricDetails]

These comparisons are sobering to say the least, haha. But it is what it is.

I'm hoping the next phase of Seider's development is knowing how to take risks on offense but if the next step is "Can he defense the way he does at the NHL level?" then that's cool too.

 

[FabricDetails]

Double post.

 

[newfy]

Sure, but semantics matter so we can all understand one another. I don't have anything to add regarding your comparison, just trying to explain where Cyborg's surprise originated from.

Well, I guess I have one thing to add. That any comparable to Pronger is insanely lofty and it's been done so many times to prospects that never came anywhere near him, that people sort of tune those out.

I guess but I did also kinda describe what I was talking about so the semantics shouldnt matter at all. I literally said they can move the puck and chip offense but the main part of their game is staying home and dominating defensively. I did also say its a style comparison and not that I think Seider will be as good.

You know what, I'll throw a name out there. Derian Hatcher. Guy had underrated offensive chops, and Seider skates far better but...big, mean guy who might push the boundaries at times? Yeah, I could like me a modern, in his prime Derian Hatcher. Seider might not ever be as flat out dirty as Hatcher, but if we're looking for a less lofty comparison, I think that's there.

I thought Hatcher but their skating is so different that I dont think its as good as Pronger. He also was much more of just a defensive dman, I dont think he was underrated offensively. I'm not talking how good theyll be just what theyll play like. I've always liked the Ohlund one as well and thats probably the best one if you want to talk about having a similar impact and playing a similar game

 

[Henkka]

Seider has both great 1st+breakout passing and great skating transition. It's a hell of a package, with his will for physical play, and with that best endurance levels at draft combine. He has all natural genetics to become a NHL minute leader of all players.

I don't know who to compare him, but still he reminds me most of Victor Hedman. Just won't use his shot as much (from low-percentage area, which is very smart in some situations. this kid ain't dumb.), but Hedman's shot isn't anything elite either. He can work that out just changing his habits + training. Seider always passed the puck as PP QB, but he was extremely sure keeping the puck on the area. Something which #5 did too. Great puck control, he just have to shoot sometimes as a "fake" not to become too predicted. Easy to work that out.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Imagine spending a 4th and 6th OA pick in back-to-back drafts on defensemen and still not walking away with a number one PP QB.

 

[Henkka]

Imagine spending a 4th and 6th OA pick in back-to-back drafts on defensemen and still not walking away with a number one PP QB.

Yep, and that could be done from summer free agency. Buy some time for next 7 years, if that PP Quarterback walks in on the team from somewhere.

 

[Frk It]

Imagine spending a 4th and 6th OA pick in back-to-back drafts on defensemen and still not walking away with a number one PP QB.

I don't want to have to.

 

[Maverick41]

From that list. I would like Raymond the most, followed by Holtz or Perfetti (I don't really have a preference between them).
Rossi or Sanderson I would be ok with. The others would be the ones I would like to avoid.

 

[FireBird71]

Imagine spending a 4th and 6th OA pick in back-to-back drafts on defensemen and still not walking away with a number one PP QB.

I’ve seen enough of Drysdale in person to say he’s a #1 PP QB.....and to say he’d be the best Offensive defenseman we’d have and it’s not even close

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I've been saying Mattias Ohlund since Seider was drafted.

I've also been saying Ohlund 2.0 since October. And I think that's his low-end career projectability.
Big? Check.
Athletic? Check.
Can skate? Check
Great passer? Check.
Physically intimidating? Check.
Very smart? Double check.

I think there is major offensive potential from Seider waiting to be unlocked. Watch his 2019 world junior highlights, and watching him at the 2020 WJC you could see that he's the kind of D that could net 40 assists because he has an uncanny ability to stop a play moving through the neutral zone by swatting passes out of the air and sending the puck in the other direction. Seider is also excellent at holding the offensive blueline on clearing attempts because of his reach and hand-eye coordination. This has been a major problem on our powerplay since we lost Lidstrom. Other teams have been able to pressure our bluelines with impunity, causing us to lose the zone. Seider could be the guy that you run a proper umbrella powerplay through and not worry about turnovers.

He doesn't pinch as much as he could because Seider plays a very responsible defensive game but he started to do it more often after returning from the WJC. Once the kid develops a slapshot I could see 50 point potential while being a dominating presence in his end. Without the shot I'd expect 30ish.

Whoever has been stating Mattias Norstrom/Kenny Jonsson/Roman Hamrlik/Derian Hatcher needs to put on a pair of glasses. All 4 were WILDLY different players other than the position they played. Mattias Norstrom could only chip it off the glass or wrestle guys in the corners and net front. Kenny Jonsson was a (very) poor man's version of Lidstrom. Hamrlik was either a defensive liability early in his career or an offensive blackhole later on, and Derian Hatcher was a big, slow hack that was only effective when the NHL wasn't enforcing obstruction. He may be one of the most overrated defensemen of the last 30 years.

I'm not opposed to picking a defenseman high most years, but I'm not high on Sanderson at 4th overall even though I think he's a very projectable player and likely to have a decent career. I'm just not sold that it will be an all-star level career. I'm even less impressed by Drysdale who I wouldn't be surprised to see fall to 7th or lower. Raymond is too much of a gamble because no matter how you try and justify it, the kid barely played this year. His highlight reels look good but there's not enough of a body of work this season to support a 4th overall pick. Also, I'm still not sold that he's going to be better than Holtz who is bigger, just as fast, and a true sniper's instincts.

I keep going back to Rossi and Perfetti as the best players available, and best player for the team. I think it's a coin toss between them, and I hope that it ends up an Yzerman vs. Lafontaine situation where both players end up as great guys for their respective teams.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I’ve seen enough of Drysdale in person to say he’s a #1 PP QB.....and to say he’d be the best Offensive defenseman we’d have and it’s not even close

That was a reference to Sanderson