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Who is the Tom Brady of the NHL?

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The Toews Era*

The Toews Era*

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LordNeverLose said:
So Wilson/Rodgers > Brady?
Romo > Manning?
Cousins > Montana?
Schaub > Palmer?

QB rating is not an accurate stat.

Also since Brady became a starter, Manning has posted a higher QB rating more times than not
2014, 2013, 2012, 2009, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002
v.
2015, 2011, 2010, 2007, 2001
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Yeah its just mannings last, clearly medically and physically impaired season thatbrings his career rating down. Statistically, rodgers and manning were better than brady, despite bradys habitual cheating.
 

SAK11

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Oct 4, 2011
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The Toews Era said:
http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

These people who minimize spygate should play madden against their friends for money with the precondition that they have to declare their plays every time. 40+ games of abuse.

And as for his post spygate career, there is very little chance that brady/belichick did not continue to push the envelope with cheating in other ways. And have been caught for it at least once.

At this point he only has one super bowl win free and clear of any cheating scandal, a losing head to head playoff record vs manning, and inferior stats to rodgers/brees/manning. Hardly goat-worthy.

I dont like lebron but the guy is an all time great, no doubt. Brady to me is a quite different story. Hes obviously good but its the oline/defense/belichick/the cheating that took him from good to 5 time sb winner.
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I guess it comes down to you being hung up on spygate. I've read your article, now you read mine and let me know what you think:

http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

[I understand it's not the most professional site, it does gives some good insight, though, especially to those who are completely anti- Brady/Patriots].

Number 1, as I've mentioned, this isn't something that went on for the majority of his career, and number 2, it wasn't as influential as you seem to think, and your Madden comparison is not a very good one. And really, just look at the results since. The Pats have continued to dominate, even more-so offensively.

As for those other QB's, you'll have to explain 'inferior stats.'

Manning has a case for being better, but it's a dying one. You've pointed to a 3-2 playoff record for Manning against Brady as if this is the be-all-end-all. The fact that Manning only ended up with 2 rings, versus 5 for Brady, and that Brady has the far superior playoff and Super Bowl numbers kill Manning in this debate. The one thing Manning always had was the regular season success, but Brady has closed the gap in that regard with 2 MVPs, and a chance at finishing with close to as many TDs and passing yards with way fewer INTs while already passing him in regular season wins [plus a dominant record against Manning during the season].

With Rodgers, he might be the most dominant QB I've ever seen; his issue is that he's done it for half the length of time as Brady, so it's tough to bet on him getting anywhere close to 5 rings and all the dominant playoff performances, or 200+ wins, plus all the other career numbers that Brady has. It's possible, but as of now, it's too early to put Rodgers up there.

Brees is a level below for sure. He's been the QB of the most pass-happy team in the most pass-happy era. The guy has made the playoffs less times than Brady has made it to the Super Bowl. He has no MVPs even with all the regular season success. Him and Brady are neck and neck in TDs and are close in yards, but Brees has 70 more INTs and the W-L record isn't even close.

It boggles my mind that you can't admit to him being an all-time great.
 
LordNeverLose

LordNeverLose

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SAK11 said:
I guess it comes down to you being hung up on spygate. I've read your article, now you read mine and let me know what you think:

http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

[I understand it's not the most professional site, it does gives some good insight, though, especially to those who are completely anti- Brady/Patriots].

Number 1, as I've mentioned, this isn't something that went on for the majority of his career, and number 2, it wasn't as influential as you seem to think, and your Madden comparison is not a very good one. And really, just look at the results since. The Pats have continued to dominate, even more-so offensively.

As for those other QB's, you'll have to explain 'inferior stats.'

Manning has a case for being better, but it's a dying one. You've pointed to a 3-2 playoff record for Manning against Brady as if this is the be-all-end-all. The fact that Manning only ended up with 2 rings, versus 5 for Brady, and that Brady has the far superior playoff and Super Bowl numbers kill Manning in this debate. The one thing Manning always had was the regular season success, but Brady has closed the gap in that regard with 2 MVPs, and a chance at finishing with close to as many TDs and passing yards with way fewer INTs while already passing him in regular season wins [plus a dominant record against Manning during the season].

With Rodgers, he might be the most dominant QB I've ever seen; his issue is that he's done it for half the length of time as Brady, so it's tough to bet on him getting anywhere close to 5 rings and all the dominant playoff performances, or 200+ wins, plus all the other career numbers that Brady has. It's possible, but as of now, it's too early to put Rodgers up there.

Brees is a level below for sure. He's been the QB of the most pass-happy team in the most pass-happy era. The guy has made the playoffs less times than Brady has made it to the Super Bowl. He has no MVPs even with all the regular season success. Him and Brady are neck and neck in TDs and are close in yards, but Brees has 70 more INTs and the W-L record isn't even close.

It boggles my mind that you can't admit to him being an all-time great.
Click to expand...

Cmon that website is an utter joke. It gives 10 points to the Jets for a rogue strength and conditioning coach tripping some guy because he's a sterioded idiot (side note, the same guy made news for getting attacked by Diddy) and only gives the Pats 5 for Spygate and 0 for Deflategate.
 
Kale Hulls

Kale Hulls

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There is no Tom Brady of the NHL, the closest of current players would probably be Toews, but he is more of a Russell Wilson.
 
LordNeverLose

LordNeverLose

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SAK11 said:
As for those other QB's, you'll have to explain 'inferior stats.'

Manning has a case for being better, but it's a dying one. You've pointed to a 3-2 playoff record for Manning against Brady as if this is the be-all-end-all. The fact that Manning only ended up with 2 rings, versus 5 for Brady, and that Brady has the far superior playoff and Super Bowl numbers kill Manning in this debate. The one thing Manning always had was the regular season success, but Brady has closed the gap in that regard with 2 MVPs, and a chance at finishing with close to as many TDs and passing yards with way fewer INTs while already passing him in regular season wins [plus a dominant record against Manning during the season].
Click to expand...

Brady has not closed the gap with his 2 MVP's lol. Manning has 5.

Considering their primes coincided, I don't know how we can say Brady > Manning. It'd be like saying Messier > Gretzky
 
Mpasta

Mpasta

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The Toews Era said:
Not each, last. I mean brady is going to have a less than average season before he retires too. And that will be without a debilitating neck/spine issue that required four surgeries.
Click to expand...

Why aren't you bringing up Manning's best season of his career that happened after the surgery? Or the HGH that was delivered to his house that he blamed on his wife?
 
jetsfan91

jetsfan91

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LordNeverLose said:
Cmon that website is an utter joke. It gives 10 points to the Jets for a rogue strength and conditioning coach tripping some guy because he's a sterioded idiot (side note, the same guy made news for getting attacked by Diddy) and only gives the Pats 5 for Spygate and 0 for Deflategate.
Click to expand...

The sourness is real. Looked at your posting history. I see you're an islanders fan. Safe to assume you follow the Jets? I would be sour too if Tom Brady kicked my ass for the last 16 years.
 
The Toews Era*

The Toews Era*

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jetsfan91 said:
The sourness is real. Looked at your posting history. I see you're an islanders fan. Safe to assume you follow the Jets? I would be sour too if Tom Brady kicked my ass for the last 16 years.
Click to expand...

Really weak personal attack, the guy is posting reasonable facts based stuff whether you agree or disagree
 
High five Tom

High five Tom

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Anyone who says toews obviously doesn't know **** about Brady or football. Brady is the Goat. Toews isn't even close.
 
LordNeverLose

LordNeverLose

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jetsfan91 said:
The sourness is real. Looked at your posting history. I see you're an islanders fan. Safe to assume you follow the Jets? I would be sour too if Tom Brady kicked my ass for the last 16 years.
Click to expand...

Yes, I sadly am a Jets fan. It is a rough life.

But do you honestly think those are fair assessments? How is a crazy assistant blatantly tripping someone considered twice as bad as Spygate? Website was clearly made by an angry Boston fan.
 
The Toews Era*

The Toews Era*

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SAK11 said:
I guess it comes down to you being hung up on spygate. I've read your article, now you read mine and let me know what you think:

http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

[I understand it's not the most professional site, it does gives some good insight, though, especially to those who are completely anti- Brady/Patriots].

Number 1, as I've mentioned, this isn't something that went on for the majority of his career, and number 2, it wasn't as influential as you seem to think, and your Madden comparison is not a very good one. And really, just look at the results since. The Pats have continued to dominate, even more-so offensively.

As for those other QB's, you'll have to explain 'inferior stats.'

Manning has a case for being better, but it's a dying one. You've pointed to a 3-2 playoff record for Manning against Brady as if this is the be-all-end-all. The fact that Manning only ended up with 2 rings, versus 5 for Brady, and that Brady has the far superior playoff and Super Bowl numbers kill Manning in this debate. The one thing Manning always had was the regular season success, but Brady has closed the gap in that regard with 2 MVPs, and a chance at finishing with close to as many TDs and passing yards with way fewer INTs while already passing him in regular season wins [plus a dominant record against Manning during the season].

With Rodgers, he might be the most dominant QB I've ever seen; his issue is that he's done it for half the length of time as Brady, so it's tough to bet on him getting anywhere close to 5 rings and all the dominant playoff performances, or 200+ wins, plus all the other career numbers that Brady has. It's possible, but as of now, it's too early to put Rodgers up there.

Brees is a level below for sure. He's been the QB of the most pass-happy team in the most pass-happy era. The guy has made the playoffs less times than Brady has made it to the Super Bowl. He has no MVPs even with all the regular season success. Him and Brady are neck and neck in TDs and are close in yards, but Brees has 70 more INTs and the W-L record isn't even close.

It boggles my mind that you can't admit to him being an all-time great.
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This is by and large a reasonable take, thank you.

I dont very much care for that site though, i think it was unearthed that it was made by a pats fan and the points system is a weird and biased attempt at moral equivalency.

Heres what ill say in a general sense to your points.

- the outside the lines report makes it clear that what the pats were doing was of a more sophisticated nature and stronger magnitude than the stuff that other teams have done, imho

- one wrong does not erase another. As ive said, others did roids during bonds career, others doped during lance armstrongs career. One - not everyone did and two - a goat discussion draws in comparisons historically to players that categorically did not cheat like this (hank aaron etc)

- bradys entire goat claim is based on his five super bowls. Three of which were during a period of time in which a full 40 games (!!!) were tainted and possibly flipped by spygate. Given the whole knockout nature of football and how close some of those games were, i really doubt the pats win those three sbs without them. Nor do i think the pats beat the ravens in 2014 without deflations (cold weather 4 point game). So the goat case is down to one possibly clean sb, a lot of playoff disappointment and choking to the likes of flacco and mark sanchez, and a top 5 of his own era stat profile.

Meh, doesnt do it for me the way the other goats did
 
LordNeverLose

LordNeverLose

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I don't really care all that much about whether or not they cheated. I care more about the fact that he isn't as good at the position as at least a handful of other guys.
 

doncherrysgrill

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Easily Toews. Elite player and leader who is highly overrated but still an all-time great. Both discussed as generational players despite never actually being the best player at their position in their careers.

The argument of rings = GOAT is so dumb. With that logic Fleury and Giguere are better than Luongo and Lundqvist. Give me Luongo over Tim Thomas any day.
 
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