Who is the greater player all-time (as of today)? Rank them. Crosby vs Ovechkin vs Jagr

[wetcoast]

How is he not adding to his resume? He had a top-10 finish in goals/gp last season, and will still challenge for the Rocket and top-20 in points this year.

And climbing the all-time point and goal leaderboards while not being a "compiler" is still adding to his resume.

Sure in the true sense playing more games is adding to his resume but that doesn't mean it won't affect how people remember him.

Take last season for example his per game goal scoring was fine (now apply the same metric to Crosby for his career) but his PPG had him easily outside of the top 20 (34th) and in terms of overall play he wasn't doing very much of anything besides scoring in adding to his resume in a positive manner and probably was doing the opposite.

 

[filinski77]

Sure in the true sense playing more games is adding to his resume but that doesn't mean it won't affect how people remember him.

Take last season for example his per game goal scoring was fine (now apply the same metric to Crosby for his career) but his PPG had him easily outside of the top 20 (34th) and in terms of overall play he wasn't doing very much of anything besides scoring in adding to his resume in a positive manner and probably was doing the opposite.

Still don't agree. It will definitely impact how people remember him.
-> Going from 6th to 1st/2nd in all-time goals adds to his resume
-> Going from 35th to 10th in all time points adds to his resume
-> Popping top-10 (or better) goal finishes will still add to his resume
-> Even top-30 point finishes still adds to his resume in the sense that if he can do that a 36 years old, that's remarkable.

It's like saying Jagr added nothing to his resume post-34 (which is ridiculous).

Obviously his best years are behind him, but he's still putting up historic seasons for his age:
-> 32 year old seasons: 3rd best goal scoring all-time (probably 1st or 2nd if you era adjust). And easily a top-10 all time overall offensively.
-> 33 year old seasons: 2nd best goal scoring all-time and probably a top-5 all time overall offensively.
-> 34 year old season: The BEST goalscoring season all-time (despite a shortened COVID season), and also a top-5 all time overall offensive season
-> 35 year old season: Harder to judge due to the covid shortened season. But he easily finishes #2 all time in goal scoring for 35 year olds, and likely top-10 overall offensively
-> 36 year old season: Will definitely challenge for at least the 2nd best goalscoring season (if not first) for a 36 year old, and can definitely get a top-10 overall offensive season

 

[Beau Knows]

I'd put Crosby somewhere between 5-10 all-time, Jagr about 10-15 and Ovechkin just slightly behind him for now.

 

[wetcoast]

Still don't agree. It will definitely impact how people remember him.
-> Going from 6th to 1st/2nd in all-time goals adds to his resume
-> Going from 35th to 10th in all time points adds to his resume
-> Popping top-10 (or better) goal finishes will still add to his resume
-> Even top-30 point finishes still adds to his resume in the sense that if he can do that a 36 years old, that's remarkable.

It's like saying Jagr added nothing to his resume post-34 (which is ridiculous).

Obviously his best years are behind him, but he's still putting up historic seasons for his age:
-> 32 year old seasons: 3rd best goal scoring all-time (probably 1st or 2nd if you era adjust). And easily a top-10 all time overall offensively.
-> 33 year old seasons: 2nd best goal scoring all-time and probably a top-5 all time overall offensively.
-> 34 year old season: The BEST goalscoring season all-time (despite a shortened COVID season), and also a top-5 all time overall offensive season
-> 35 year old season: Harder to judge due to the covid shortened season. But he easily finishes #2 all time in goal scoring for 35 year olds, and likely top-10 overall offensively
-> 36 year old season: Will definitely challenge for at least the 2nd best goalscoring season (if not first) for a 36 year old, and can definitely get a top-10 overall offensive season

Seriously do you ever bother to look stuff up or not here?

Age 33 seasons both Crosby and Jagr had better ones offensively and in Hart voting also.

Gordie Howe was 4th in Hart voting at age 33 and 3rd in points.

A year later Howe also led the NHL in goals and points and won the Hart.

But we get it, it's all about goals the rest of his game some people just don't want to look at.

 

[filinski77]

Seriously do you ever bother to look stuff up or not here?

Age 33 seasons both Crosby and Jagr had better ones offensively and in Hart voting also.

Gordie Howe was 4th in Hart voting at age 33 and 3rd in points.

A year later Howe also led the NHL in goals and points and won the Hart.

But we get it, it's all about goals the rest of his game some people just don't want to look at.

I think you're having a hard time following this conversation. I'll recap:
-> You started by mentioning that in Ovi's older ages, he is not adding anything to his resume.
-> I disagreed, and noted that he was still putting up top of the league goals and points finishes, and that since he is now into his 30's, it makes sense to also see how his performance compares to other players from his age historically (and that also adds to his resume).

At NO point did I say that Howe/Jagr/Crosby weren't ALSO adding to their resumes by having great seasons for their age (but you seem to be implying that I was). I also thing that Crosby/Jagr's strong 33 year old seasons add to their resumes.

"Age 33 seasons both Crosby and Jagr had better ones offensively and in Hart voting also."
-> See the chart below for offensive comparisons, on an overall basis, Ovechkin still comes out ahead of both in this comparison

	Ovechkin	Ovechkin		Crosby	Crosby		Jagr	Jagr
	Point Finish	Goal Finish		Point Finish	Goal Finish		Point Finish	Goal Finish
Age 30	15	1		10	33		19	12
Age 31	20	13		5	21		15	15
Age 32	11	1		12 (/gp)	33 (/gp)
Age 33	15	1		10	13		2	2
Age 34	18	1					8	37
Age 35	27 (/gp)	8 (/gp)					33	58

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

-> Ovi vs. Crosby: 30 = Ovi edge; 31 = Crosby clear win; 32 = Ovi clear win; 33 = Ovi edge
-> Ovi vs. Jagr: 30 = Ovi clear win; 31 = tie; 32 = unknown; 33 = Jagr clear win; 34 = tie/ Ovi edge; 35 = Ovi clear win

"But we get it, it's all about goals the rest of his game some people just don't want to look at."
-> At no point did I mention anything that is saying only goals mattered. I was very clear in labelling that he had historic goal-scoring and offensive numbers for his age in each of those years. You'e the one that brought that up. At the end of the day, it's still adding to his resume lol.

 

[wetcoast]

I think you're having a hard time following this conversation. I'll recap:
-> You started by mentioning that in Ovi's older ages, he is not adding anything to his resume.
-> I disagreed, and noted that he was still putting up top of the league goals and points finishes, and that since he is now into his 30's, it makes sense to also see how his performance compares to other players from his age historically (and that also adds to his resume).

At NO point did I say that Howe/Jagr/Crosby weren't ALSO adding to their resumes by having great seasons for their age (but you seem to be implying that I was). I also thing that Crosby/Jagr's strong 33 year old seasons add to their resumes.

"Age 33 seasons both Crosby and Jagr had better ones offensively and in Hart voting also."
-> See the chart below for offensive comparisons, on an overall basis, Ovechkin still comes out ahead of both in this comparison

	Ovechkin	Ovechkin		Crosby	Crosby		Jagr	Jagr
	Point Finish	Goal Finish		Point Finish	Goal Finish		Point Finish	Goal Finish
Age 30	15	1		10	33		19	12
Age 31	20	13		5	21		15	15
Age 32	11	1		12 (/gp)	33 (/gp)
Age 33	15	1		10	13		2	2
Age 34	18	1					8	37
Age 35	27 (/gp)	8 (/gp)					33	58

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

-> Ovi vs. Crosby: 30 = Ovi edge; 31 = Crosby clear win; 32 = Ovi clear win; 33 = Ovi edge
-> Ovi vs. Jagr: 30 = Ovi clear win; 31 = tie; 32 = unknown; 33 = Jagr clear win; 34 = tie/ Ovi edge; 35 = Ovi clear win

"But we get it, it's all about goals the rest of his game some people just don't want to look at."
-> At no point did I mention anything that is saying only goals mattered. I was very clear in labelling that he had historic goal-scoring and offensive numbers for his age in each of those years. You'e the one that brought that up. At the end of the day, it's still adding to his resume lol.

Jagr is an absolute sense does have better top 10 scoring finishes and Crosby clearly better than Ovi as well here.

But Crosby has a 15 year straight level of play in his prime that neither guy can match and a better individual playoff resume as well.

Jagr after his first 15 seasons has one more elite (in terms of scoring) one in his 16th year and then some "really good for his age ones."

Ovi at this point isn't really adding to his resume except counting stats.

To the first bold in bold I brought up what you were responding to and will restate it.

At this point Ovi isn't really going to be adding anything to his resume except counting stats and then you went back and referenced various points in the last 5 years.

Then in the comparison you are cherry-picking 2 counting stats and not looking at Hart voting?

Like I stated upthread the only reason some don't want to look at the whole picture is pretty clear here.

 

[illpucks]

Big Ovi fan, but objectively it's a very easy answer.

1. Jagr
2. Crosby
3. Ovi

Crosby is the best at team cohesion, leadership. Ovi is the best at goals and hits. Overall talent it's Jagr by a mile. McDavid is head and shoulders above the league now and he has yet to 3 peat the Art Ross. Jagr has 5 straight. Ovi fell off hard after his 3 peak seasons. And Sid is not touching McDavid now.

 

[illpucks]

I think this is pretty clearly Crosby, Ovi and Jagr in that order.

Personally I find Jagr insanely overrated for his career. He absolutely had a terrific peak from like 1994-2001, but he didn't have that stellar of a career (relative Crosby and Ovechkin) outside of those years. Crosby and Ovi have been at elite levels ever since they stepped on NHL ice, I don't think Jagr is the same way and I don't think Jagr insisting on playing into his 40s really overrides that.

Here's the best way I can put it. Jagr had multiple full seasons where he wasn't even a top-10 player in the NHL prior to his age 35 season. I don't think Crosby has ever had one of those, while Ovi might have had 1.

Jagr only got bad when he was traded to the Caps. If he stayed on the Pens maybe he would have had 8 straight AR. Once he got off the Caps he should have won the AR but JT did but he still had 123 pts


Jagr >>> Crosby>Ovi

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Crosby ovechkin Jagr.

Giving Ovechkin the edge on Jagr.

 

[pb1300]

I’m curious to know how old some of our members are, because I would bet alot were pretty young to realize how good Jagr was.

 

[ijuka]

Jagr's the best. And of the three, the most difficult one to play against.

Jagr's a power forward and his value can't only be measured in points. He could protect the puck 1v3 pretty effortlessly and was ridiculously difficult to contain.

 

[NhlFan84]

As I mentioned, having the all-time goal record 100% contributes to where you rank someone as far as their "greatness" goes. I'd even go so far as to argue that Ovechkin finishing #2 all time in goals is enough to consider him greater than Crosby.

This is a hypothetical that hasn't happened. Do you know what *has* happened? Jagr is the #2 scorer of all time. That in itself easily supercedes most goals ever (if he even gets it). To add - Jagr has the higher points per game despite playing many more years at a much older age.

To me, Jagr and Crosby are too close, but I give a very slight edge to Jagr.

 

[NhlFan84]

I think this is pretty clearly Crosby, Ovi and Jagr in that order.

Personally I find Jagr insanely overrated for his career. He absolutely had a terrific peak from like 1994-2001, but he didn't have that stellar of a career (relative Crosby and Ovechkin) outside of those years. Crosby and Ovi have been at elite levels ever since they stepped on NHL ice, I don't think Jagr is the same way and I don't think Jagr insisting on playing into his 40s really overrides that.

Here's the best way I can put it. Jagr had multiple full seasons where he wasn't even a top-10 player in the NHL prior to his age 35 season. I don't think Crosby has ever had one of those, while Ovi might have had 1.

What?

 

[Gurglesons]

What?

Jagrs is overrated.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I’m curious to know how old some of our members are, because I would bet alot were pretty young to realize how good Jagr was.

Seriously

Jagr is 2nd all time in points, 3rd all time in goals, 5th all time in assists

On top of 5x Ross, 3x Pearson and a Hart.

All despite losing 6 seasons to lockouts and Russia

 

[tarheelhockey]

What I gather from the results (and agree with) is that the solid consensus is Ovechkin is 3rd, and the real question is whether Crosby is over or under Jagr.

Personally I think Crosby is the greater player and the guy you build a team around. Jagr was a dominant hockey player but always struck me as missing a certain something that both Crosby and Ovie have.

 

[AgeIess]

Jagr>Crosby>Ovi

 

[Nosferatu]

Jagr is the 4th best player all time for me.

 

[wetcoast]

I’m curious to know how old some of our members are, because I would bet alot were pretty young to realize how good Jagr was.

I'm old enough to remember his draft year and many years before that and took the first option.

Jagr has the best consecutive peak (3 straight years)/prime (7 straight years) of the 2 but it's only really because of injuries to Crosby.

Their first 15 years it's Crosby overall then Jagr.

 

[wetcoast]

Jagr is the 4th best player all time for me.

Interesting take but who is your top 4,5 and 10?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Jagr is the 4th best player all time for me.

So he's either better than orr or howe?

 

[Kaiden Ghoul]

Jagr
Crosby
Ovy

 

[NhlFan84]

Jagrs is overrated.

How are you going to say the #2 scorer of all time (while playing in the lowest scoring era) is overrated? He's a top 6 or 7 all time, with an argument to be even lower.. I'll ask you this - why would you rank Gordie Howe above Jagr? On what merit?

 

[nowhereman]

Jagr's the best. And of the three, the most difficult one to play against.

Jagr's a power forward and his value can't only be measured in points. He could protect the puck 1v3 pretty effortlessly and was ridiculously difficult to contain.

Not in his team's end of the ice, he wasn't. Jagr was never a complete player. And you never had to worry about him checking you through the glass like you did with OV.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

How are you going to say the #2 scorer of all time (while playing in the lowest scoring era) is overrated? He's a top 6 or 7 all time, with an argument to be even lower.. I'll ask you this - why would you rank Gordie Howe above Jagr? On what merit?

The early 90s were not low scoring.

Jagr fanboys getting defensive