Who is the greater player all-time (as of today)? Rank them. Crosby vs Ovechkin vs Jagr

Who is the greater player all-time as of today? Rank them


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    348

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
22,386
15,137
As of today, who do you feel is the greater player between the 3 of them? Personally when I say 'greater' it means looking at overall career, vs just peak, but I'll let each voter decide for himself how he answers what 'greater' means.

Feel free to comment on the gap between them, and also discuss if you expect that to change by the time they retire since they're all still active (who knows, Jagr could still come back and win 3 more Art Rosses at ages 52-55 and leapfrog the other 2 if he isn't already ahead).
 

Connor McConnor

Registered User
Nov 22, 2017
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As of now I think it's Jagr > Crosby > Ovi. With that said, both Sid and Ovi aren't done yet and I fully expect it to end up as Cros > Ovi > Jagr when all is said and done.
 
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filinski77

Registered User
Feb 12, 2017
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Right now probably Crosby > Ovechkin > Jagr (with a very very thin line separating all 3)

If Ovechkin breaks the all-time goal record: Ovechkin > Crosby > Jagr (since this is asking "greatest" and not "best over the course of their careers")
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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Right now probably Crosby > Ovechkin > Jagr (with a very very thin line separating all 3)

If Ovechkin breaks the all-time goal record: Ovechkin > Crosby > Jagr (since this is asking "greatest" and not "best over the course of their careers")
So if Ovi scores 20 goals a year but plays 8 more years while the Caps struggle, that puts him above Crosby?

Ranking players based on counting stats is dumb. Absent some significant change in circumstances, Ovi has most likely provided 95% of his career value by now. Him Andreychuking it up isn't going to change that.

It's Crosby - Ovi - Jagr though. Pretty clear tiering between each of them.
 

filinski77

Registered User
Feb 12, 2017
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So if Ovi scores 20 goals a year but plays 8 more years while the Caps struggle, that puts him above Crosby?

Ranking players based on counting stats is dumb. Absent some significant change in circumstances, Ovi has most likely provided 95% of his career value by now. Him Andreychuking it up isn't going to change that.

It's Crosby - Ovi - Jagr though. Pretty clear tiering between each of them.
As I mentioned, having the all-time goal record 100% contributes to where you rank someone as far as their "greatness" goes. I'd even go so far as to argue that Ovechkin finishing #2 all time in goals is enough to consider him greater than Crosby.
 
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Hanji

Registered User
Oct 14, 2009
3,165
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Wisconsin
As of this moment:

1. Jagr
2. Crosby
3. Ovechkin

Jagr's peak (4 straight Art Ross', 5 in 7 years) + unmatched longevity is the difference.
 

The Abusement Park

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Jan 18, 2016
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I’d go Jagr, Crosby, Ovi. But Ovi breaking the goal record jumps him straight to the top of these 3 pretty easily.
 

KoozNetsOff 92

Hala Madrid
Apr 6, 2016
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Bobby Hull is commonly ranked as #5 all time. Considering eras, OV has a greater resume than him. So, unless Crosby and Jagr are top 4 all time, it makes no sense for OV to be last here. I'm confident that years from now when people open the record books and see OV's name at the top of the goals list, rockets list, select 3x hart winners list, etc that he will be ranked ahead of both Crosby and Jagr.

Having said that, I have Jagr 3rd here. Amazing player but he was the biggest diva in the NHL. Threatening not to come over in the draft for anyone except Pittsburgh, coach killer, quit on multiple teams. Not a guy I'd want leading my team.
 

Hisch13r

Registered User
May 16, 2012
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Bobby Hull is commonly ranked as #5 all time. Considering eras, OV has a greater resume than him. So, unless Crosby and Jagr are top 4 all time, it makes no sense for OV to be last here. I'm confident that years from now when people open the record books and see OV's name at the top of the goals list, rockets list, select 3x hart winners list, etc that he will be ranked ahead of both Crosby and Jagr.

Having said that, I have Jagr 3rd here. Amazing player but he was the biggest diva in the NHL. Threatening not to come over in the draft for anyone except Pittsburgh, coach killer, quit on multiple teams. Not a guy I'd want leading my team.

Sid and Jagr are also commonly ranked as #5. Your point makes no sense. "Because some people have this guy ranked 5 and this other guy have a better resume that means that everybody should rank the other guy higher than these 2 different guys regardless if they think these 2 different guys are better than the original guy or this other guy". Just a completely nonsensical line of thought.
 

TJHKY

Registered User
Aug 10, 2021
1,601
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Ovi, Crsoby, Jagr
This is order for me. Ovi still has a lots goals to score. Crosby missed lots of games due to injury. Jagr away from NHL several years.
 

bobholly39

Registered User
Mar 10, 2013
22,386
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Right now I’d say Crosby>Ovi>Jagr

Like @filinski77 said, if Ovi breaks the goal scoring record that’d move him into first place

As I mentioned, having the all-time goal record 100% contributes to where you rank someone as far as their "greatness" goes. I'd even go so far as to argue that Ovechkin finishing #2 all time in goals is enough to consider him greater than Crosby.

I think it really comes down to how he breaks the record.

Does he wow us with yet another 50 goal season, or at least a couple ~40-45+ goal seasons at his age, well on his way to eventually breaking the goal record, possibly even with a bit more playoff success thrown in there? Maybe an extra cup or an important role in a potential Olympic Gold medla? Ok - that seems like a lot of "stuff" he adds, maybe you make a case.

Does he do nothing really special, a bunch of ~30-35 goal seasons with super bad defense, and no real playoff success - yet eventually still break the record? I don't think he's adding a lot of "stuff" to his resume.

And even more - what if it's scenario 1, so a 50 goal season or maybe a couple of 40-45 goal seasons....but instead of beating 894 goals he ends up with....885? Does 11 goals more or less really make such a big difference?

I don't think beating the record would be insignificant - but you have to be able to justify and rationalize his case without the record. If not, any bump will seem unnatural. Yes even if having such a record should contribute to one's 'greatness'. Now if you want to argue that even without the record, based on his resume to date and what you expect him to do still, it should be enough to be above the others, that's fine, even if I don't agree.
 

The Moose is Loose

Registered User
Jun 28, 2017
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I think it really comes down to how he breaks the record.

Does he wow us with yet another 50 goal season, or at least a couple ~40-45+ goal seasons at his age, well on his way to eventually breaking the goal record, possibly even with a bit more playoff success thrown in there? Maybe an extra cup or an important role in a potential Olympic Gold medla? Ok - that seems like a lot of "stuff" he adds, maybe you make a case.

Does he do nothing really special, a bunch of ~30-35 goal seasons with super bad defense, and no real playoff success - yet eventually still break the record? I don't think he's adding a lot of "stuff" to his resume.

And even more - what if it's scenario 1, so a 50 goal season or maybe a couple of 40-45 goal seasons....but instead of beating 894 goals he ends up with....885? Does 11 goals more or less really make such a big difference?

I don't think beating the record would be insignificant - but you have to be able to justify and rationalize his case without the record. If not, any bump will seem unnatural. Yes even if having such a record should contribute to one's 'greatness'. Now if you want to argue that even without the record, based on his resume to date and what you expect him to do still, it should be enough to be above the others, that's fine, even if I don't agree.
The points you’re making are very logical and objective.
However reputation and legacy can be very subjective.

Does 11 goals make a significant difference? No.
Does being able to say you’re the #1 goalscorer in NHL history? Yes.

So while there’s barely difference in terms of actual production, having a title like #1 goal scorer ever is going to elevate ones legacy significantly
 

filinski77

Registered User
Feb 12, 2017
2,621
4,304
I think it really comes down to how he breaks the record.

Does he wow us with yet another 50 goal season, or at least a couple ~40-45+ goal seasons at his age, well on his way to eventually breaking the goal record, possibly even with a bit more playoff success thrown in there? Maybe an extra cup or an important role in a potential Olympic Gold medla? Ok - that seems like a lot of "stuff" he adds, maybe you make a case.

Does he do nothing really special, a bunch of ~30-35 goal seasons with super bad defense, and no real playoff success - yet eventually still break the record? I don't think he's adding a lot of "stuff" to his resume.

And even more - what if it's scenario 1, so a 50 goal season or maybe a couple of 40-45 goal seasons....but instead of beating 894 goals he ends up with....885? Does 11 goals more or less really make such a big difference?

I don't think beating the record would be insignificant - but you have to be able to justify and rationalize his case without the record. If not, any bump will seem unnatural. Yes even if having such a record should contribute to one's 'greatness'. Now if you want to argue that even without the record, based on his resume to date and what you expect him to do still, it should be enough to be above the others, that's fine, even if I don't agree.
Definitely see where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, if Ovechkin remains an effective goal scorer, it adds to his legacy in the "longevity" category (which many people ackowledge for players like Howe/Jagr etc.).

When talking about greatness, #1 all-time in raw goals > #2 all-time in raw goals. No-one discounts Gretzky's 894 for compiling goals (he didn't score more than 25 goals in any of his last 5 seasons). Scoring 30+ goals in this current era is a huge achievement, and significantly more so when you look at how old Ovi is.

Look no further than the best goal totals per 'x' aged season:
-> 35: Ovi was a lock for #2 at the minimum (short season and covid ruined that)
-> 36: 35 goals would be the 7th highest total ever
-> 37: 35 goals would be the 3rd highest total ever
-> 38: 31 goals would be the 2nd highest total ever
-> 39: 29 goals would be the 2nd highest total ever

These may only be 30-35 goal seasons, but they would still be some of the best goal scoring seasons of all-time based on his age. They would 100% be "special".

For what it's worth, Ovechkin is already the best goalscorer of all-time in my books (and has the best argument of anyone for it imo). But for a very large population of people, that doesn't push him up the ranks of a "greatest players of all time" list. But him having the irrefutable #1 most goals would definitely push the narrative for a lot of people.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
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Sid and Jagr are also commonly ranked as #5. Your point makes no sense. "Because some people have this guy ranked 5 and this other guy have a better resume that means that everybody should rank the other guy higher than these 2 different guys regardless if they think these 2 different guys are better than the original guy or this other guy". Just a completely nonsensical line of thought.

I’ve never seen Jagr listed as #5.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,515
79,679
Redmond, WA
I think this is pretty clearly Crosby, Ovi and Jagr in that order.

Personally I find Jagr insanely overrated for his career. He absolutely had a terrific peak from like 1994-2001, but he didn't have that stellar of a career (relative Crosby and Ovechkin) outside of those years. Crosby and Ovi have been at elite levels ever since they stepped on NHL ice, I don't think Jagr is the same way and I don't think Jagr insisting on playing into his 40s really overrides that.

Here's the best way I can put it. Jagr had multiple full seasons where he wasn't even a top-10 player in the NHL prior to his age 35 season. I don't think Crosby has ever had one of those, while Ovi might have had 1.
 
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