Who is the 2nd best goal scorer of the NHL?
- Thread starter randomhockeyfan
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Psych0dad
Registered User
Ovechkin had a better playoffs than Laine for sure. Usually playoffs are compared to playoffs and regular season to regular season.
Yes, I understand that Ovechkin is not in his peak anymore, and I am not commenting on a 23 year old or a 25 year old OV, we are talking about today.
And if you are saying that Laine has been on a hot streak since the start of his NHL career, then I understand the "convenient time to compare" comment. Since Laine started in the NHL, he has been the best goal scorer to this day. With much lower icetime than his competitors.
It will be interesting to see what he will do when his usage gets closer to the other top scorers. When he gets 3 minutes added to his average and plays full 2 minute powerplays like OV does. I think Laine will leave everyone in the dust in that setting, but one could argue that he has already done it with 16 minute averages and leading the league in goals since he stepped foot in it.
But this thread is about the release. Not about which one is a better goal scorer.
No worries, we’ll understand. It is a sad though when an elite young center is so injury prone,
kuzy92
Registered User
- Mar 5, 2017
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Laine here.
Matthews is by far the better hockey player, though. As Laine improves and earns more ice time he will start blowing Matthews goal totals away (although Matthews will always be the better player)
Matthews is by far the better hockey player, though. As Laine improves and earns more ice time he will start blowing Matthews goal totals away (although Matthews will always be the better player)
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk
Effortless sexy.
Matthews.
Just a beast at even strength and has such varied releases as well. Has a Sakic-level wrister too.
Guy is just a beast.
Just a beast at even strength and has such varied releases as well. Has a Sakic-level wrister too.
Guy is just a beast.
Well, in those 12 games Laine was able to play he scored 18, which i think is second highest ever in a month if i remember right?
Edit: Corrected numbers..
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Meh. Matthews is on pace for 68 goals this year, AND sets up guys around him. Way better than that one-trick pony Patrik Laine.
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BayStreetBully
Registered User
Ovechkin is first because of his track record. Second is close between Matthews and Laine. Take your pick. I’ll pick Matthews because I think he’s a better goal scorer and can score in more ways.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Well, how about we determine who the best goal scorer is in the last 10 minutes, hey?
It's Matthews.
Incorrect answer, do you want another try?Well, how about we determine who the best goal scorer is in the last 10 minutes, hey?
It's Matthews.
I don’t really understand why people have a problem with saying maybe Laine is a better goal scorer at this point and going forward- like it is some sort of insane concept where Laine has not come close to proving it is possible...
Commonly seen basic convo:
Person one: Ovechkin is the King and nobody comes close to his proven track record of scoring, so he is the best goalscorer in the league right now- I am not convinced by the recent hot streak of Laine.
Person two: Actually, Laine has outscored ovechkin since he came into the league- he is factually the best player at producing goals in the league over the last 3 regular seasons- it can’t just be defined as a hot streak. And doing it with much less games played, and much less average ice time than Ovechkin. I think now and going forward, best goalscorer is thus very debatable, and Laine might be better, looking at the facts.
Person one:
LOL what a homer, Ovechkin is GOAT, how dare you compare the two
Look, I’m not saying Laine will have the better career, but maybe it’s time people stop acting outraged that maybe Laine might be a better goalscorer than Ovechkin now and going forward, at this point in their careers
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Why are you bringing up 23 and 25 year old Ovechkin? He literally just led the league in goals last season and, as I said, has won 5 of the last 6 goalscoring titles. That has nothing to do with his peak. That's Ovechkin now. He had a down year in 16-17, which is the reason Laine has scored the most goals since he entered the league. Ovechkin still scored more goals last year than Laine ever has and more goals in all 5 of those goalscoring titles in the last 6 seasons than Laine ever has, but because of that down year in 16-17, he somehow looks worse than Laine. But he's not. It's simply a convenient time frame.
As for the hot streak, he has 13 goals in his last 6 games, and he literally just passed Ovechkin in goals since he entered the league by 1 last night. So even with a down year from Ovechkin in the sample size he's still just 1 goal behind, and was decently ahead just two weeks ago. Perhaps we should wait until the end of the year to make the comparison, as Laine will cool off again and Ovechkin will have hot streaks of his own. Frankly I have no idea how anyone can anoint a player the best goalscorer in the league before he's even led the league in goals once.
I also don't know what you're talking about by mentioning "release". The poll clearly asks "2nd best goalscorer"
Yes.
How an earth 12 goals are better than 21?
Which amount of goals you have to score in a season that is (in your opinion) better than 12?
Read the reply I quoted, and the 2 previous replies in the chain- it’s basically exactly how it went- proclaiming Ovechkin the best goalscorer, facts provided to present an argument for the challenger
laine, and then a nothing response to refute that of “OMG you are such a fan boy”.
Go check the other threads on the main board, where the similar pattern shows itself in the “best shot” arguments. It’s all right there to see- people are unwilling to entertain and address the facts and stats presented to them, instead finding it easier to laugh off and spout an “everyone knows my opinion is more fact than facts themselves” sort of response
I find the people arguing for Laine more typically like to claim that their stats "prove" Laine is better, due to G/60, or goals since he entered the league. And I don't think anyone has argued that they don't believe Laine is a great goalscorer because its a "hot streak". They're arguing that his current hot streak had suddenly junped the needle in 2 weeks. Ovechkin had a 7 goal lead over the last 3 seasons just two weeks ago. Now Laine's ahead by one. That one goal doesn't make him a better goalscorer.
I think the issue isn't that people aren't willing to entertain the idea of Laine being better, it's that being close shouldn't push someone ahead of another with a massively better track record. The argument that Laine has one more goal in the last three years shouldn't hold much weight against a player who has literally led the league in goals 5 of the last 6 years, including last year, and just led the playoffs in goals, while the other has yet to league the league once. And the one year Ovechkin didn't just happened to be his 2nd worst goalscoring year of his career, and just happened to be the year Laine entered the league. That coincidence that has led to Laine leading the league in goals (again, by 1) the last 3 years, but anyone being objective should be able to realize that it's simply not a data set that's representative of Ovechkin's ability.
If Laine wins the Rocket this year, then we can talk, but people thinking the proven player should get the benefit of the doubt seem like the much more reasonable ones than those who want to anoint a player better because a 13 goal in 6 game hot streak now has him one goal ahead in a random sample.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Um......that's 12 goals in 12 games, Guy. After some quick math, I calculated that that's a goal-a-game.
Laine hasn't done that this season.
So,
1. Guy plays, let’s say, 1 game in a season and scores 1 goal.
2. Guy plays, let’s say, 48 games in a season and scores
42 goals.
How an earth could be number 1. better?
Because he has 1 goal per game?
Ridiculous.
Or where do you draw the line?
1. Guy plays, let’s say, 1 game in a season and scores 1 goal.
2. Guy plays, let’s say, 48 games in a season and scores
42 goals.
How an earth could be number 1. better?
Because he has 1 goal per game?
Ridiculous.
Or where do you draw the line?
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