Who gets the most credit: Yzerman or BriseBois?

[Peacefool]

Honestly, the answer might be Jon Cooper. He got our stars to play with a level of fierceness/tenacity they'd never reached before.

Two major factors: Healthy Palat and fully developed Brayden Point. We've never had these at the same time.

Also grinding not frustrated Kucherov. I think he's play and attitude was one of the biggest reason of our success

 

[DFC]

Congratulations To all the organisation of the Tampa Bay Lightning and fans Young and old To this great Victory.

Now everyone need To study this model of cap space imputed by an 9 millions Forward during the playoffs. Lolll

View attachment 369637

Yeah but Cup.

 

[DFC]

Also grinding not frustrated Kucherov. I think he's play and attitude was one of the biggest reason of our success

I think that came down to Palat. We've seen Kucherov dominate in the playoffs before, specifically in 2015. And, lo and behold, his linemate that year was Ondrej Palat. I think he opens up a lot of ice for Kucherov specifically, and then Brayden Point takes the trio to a whole different level.

For all the talk about size and toughness, the actual toughness/grit that mattered came from the top line. They scored a pretty ridiculous amount of our goals. We didn't get much depth scoring at all, which has always been the case for us in the playoffs, but normally we see our top scorers flatline. That didn't happen this year, and that was the difference. Lots of credit to Jon Cooper, lots of credit to Ondrej Palat.

Also... something has to be said for just flat out getting older and more mature. We were ready to do "whatever it took" to win this cup, and that was very clear from the outset (5 OTs played about as adherent to a structure as is possible).

I'm so glad we got to see this.

 

[dbieon12]

In retrospect, how do people feel about the DeAngelo and Hajek trades? Howden?

 

[DFC]

In retrospect, how do people feel about the DeAngelo and Hajek trades? Howden?

We won a cup. All trades hereby rendered "worth it."

 

[BoltsOfAnarchy]

I think that came down to Palat. We've seen Kucherov dominate in the playoffs before, specifically in 2015. And, lo and behold, his linemate that year was Ondrej Palat. I think he opens up a lot of ice for Kucherov specifically, and then Brayden Point takes the trio to a whole different level.

For all the talk about size and toughness, the actual toughness/grit that mattered came from the top line. They scored a pretty ridiculous amount of our goals. We didn't get much depth scoring at all, which has always been the case for us in the playoffs, but normally we see our top scorers flatline. That didn't happen this year, and that was the difference. Lots of credit to Jon Cooper, lots of credit to Ondrej Palat.

Also... something has to be said for just flat out getting older and more mature. We were ready to do "whatever it took" to win this cup, and that was very clear from the outset (5 OTs played about as adherent to a structure as is possible).

I'm so glad we got to see this.

Great points re Palat-
I remember so many conversations on this board during the regular season & last year about how awful he looked at times...”can’t finish, plays die on his stick”... “drej forgot about drej”....”why does Cooper keep 18 on the top PP unit!?” Lmao!!

Don’t you see, he was just saving it all for the right time..... and boy did he

Just another example of how wrong us HF boarders can be. I’ll gladly eat my share of Palat crow as well

 

[Todd1a]

Tie Brisebois has been with the organization since 2010 so he wasn’t doing nothing

 

[LightningStrikes]

Great points re Palat-
I remember so many conversations on this board during the regular season & last year about how awful he looked at times...”can’t finish, plays die on his stick”... “drej forgot about drej”....”why does Cooper keep 18 on the top PP unit!?” Lmao!!

Don’t you see, he was just saving it all for the right time..... and boy did he

Just another example of how wrong us HF boarders can be. I’ll gladly eat my share of Palat crow as well

I mean, at the time plays did die on Palat’s stick, he couldn’t skate and it was a complete mess. Why Cooper insisted to have him on the top lines and PP1 while he was probably playing through and/or recovering from injuries is anybody’s guess but it did hurt the team. The criticism was warranted imo.

Hats off to Palat who managed to turn it around, get things figured out and healed and battled back to form like a mad man. He was a huge part of our Cup run as @DFC has pointed out.

 

[DaBolts]

In retrospect, how do people feel about the DeAngelo and Hajek trades? Howden?

Who?

 

[Todd1a]

In retrospect, how do people feel about the DeAngelo and Hajek trades? Howden?

won a cup all trades win

 

[PJ817]

Trading up to get Point in the 3rd round might turn out to be the biggest trade in franchise history. Kucherov in the second round. Palat in the seventh. That's the line that dominated the playoffs, all drafted by Yzerman/Murray.

JBB did a great job, and I have total faith that he will continue to do a great job , but the guys who really delivered for us were already in place.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x 1000000....

 

[dbieon12]

won a cup all trades win

I would argue that we may not have needed ALL of the trades or maybe we overpaid for McDonagh and Miller (esp. since we couldn't keep him). We have not had a meaningful draft in 5-6 years. And those players that could have been drafted by us are now entering their primes (e.g., DeAngelo) and would fill a potential hole that we need filled now. This cup took ~4 1st round picks + ~2 2nd round picks + long-term salary cap trouble to win, making it very difficult to have sustained success.

 

[OdinsFury]

Answer is all of them! Just like building a house takes many different talents, so does building a Stanley Cup Champion
Vinik- he bought the land
Murray- he assembled the materials
Yzerman- he built the foundation
Brisbois- he added finishing pieces
Cooper- he flipped the switch and made sure it worked!

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

really??really? anywho WTF .....just cause a man decided to go home to his family WHICH SHOULD BE COMMANDABLE should NOT tarnish their history.....

throwing this question out there? is doing that imo.....

this is not a question or shouldnt be.....go look at history of ok dummies where we were....damn somedays smdh or posts

 

[The Gongshow]

While worth it cause CUP, these NTCs and NMC Yzerman handed out to every single signing he made is now biting us in the ass, but if it came with cheaper AAVs then it had to be done.

Its interesting that JBB's two big signings of Point and Vasi dont have either NTC or NMC

 

[Major4Boarding]

I’m going to score of 55/45 JFBB

Yzerman built the core with Al Murray of course, but JFBB was the one that pulled the trigger on Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow. Not to mention Bogosian

Three obviously very huge pieces into the Cup run

 

[BoltzManConstant]

While worth it cause CUP, these NTCs and NMC Yzerman handed out to every single signing he made is now biting us in the ass, but if it came with cheaper AAVs then it had to be done.

Its interesting that JBB's two big signings of Point and Vasi dont have either NTC or NMC

Point's contract can't include NTC or NMC, because it doesn't extend past the point where he becomes a UFA.

Vasy does have an NMC. It starts next offseason (the earliest point allowable).

 

[DFC]

While worth it cause CUP, these NTCs and NMC Yzerman handed out to every single signing he made is now biting us in the ass, but if it came with cheaper AAVs then it had to be done.

Its interesting that JBB's two big signings of Point and Vasi dont have either NTC or NMC

...Not true. Neither are eligible yet. Vasy's NMC kicks in as soon as he is. JBB is also the guy who signed Gourde.

The NTCs have kept the $ value down. Both JBB and Yzerman are taking that path.

 

[DFC]

I’m going to score of 55/45 JFBB

Yzerman built the core with Al Murray of course, but JFBB was the one that pulled the trigger on Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow. Not to mention Bogosian

Three obviously very huge pieces into the Cup run

How in the world are those players more important than Point, Kucherov, and Palat? Those are the three guys, along with Hedman, who were the biggest parts of winning this cup, and all three of them were found after the 1st round.

 

[The Gongshow]

Point's contract can't include NTC or NMC, because it doesn't extend past the point where he becomes a UFA.

Vasy does have an NMC. It starts next offseason (the earliest point allowable).

...Not true. Neither are eligible yet. Vasy's NMC kicks in as soon as he is. JBB is also the guy who signed Gourde.

The NTCs have kept the $ value down. Both JBB and Yzerman are taking that path.

I was unaware of this! Thanks for the knowledge guys!

 

[Major4Boarding]

How in the world are those players more important than Point, Kucherov, and Palat? Those are the three guys, along with Hedman, who were the biggest parts of winning this cup, and all three of them were found after the 1st round.

Because, in my opinion, it was these role players that were The Push. The catalyst that put them over the finish line. Yes, the CCR line essentially did all the major heavy lifting and that's where SFY gets his share of the credit. It took a lot of balls for Brisebois to trade off 1st rd picks (and a 1st rd prospect) for what became our "Control Line". And they produced. Not on the level the CCR line did obviously but if Cooper didn't have that line to constantly throw out there whether we had the lead, tied, or having to come from behind, I'm not so sure we get past the Islanders.

I get it though. CCR put up pretty much all the scoring. I just see it a little more in depth than just that.

 

[DFC]

Because, in my opinion, it was these role players that were The Push. The catalyst that put them over the finish line. Yes, the CCR line essentially did all the major heavy lifting and that's where SFY gets his share of the credit. It took a lot of balls for Brisebois to trade off 1st rd picks (and a 1st rd prospect) for what became our "Control Line". And they produced. Not on the level the CCR line did obviously but if Cooper didn't have that line to constantly throw out there whether we had the lead, tied, or having to come from behind, I'm not so sure we get past the Islanders.

I get it though. CCR put up pretty much all the scoring. I just see it a little more in depth than just that.

But they did all the heavy lifting. A huge difference was Palat being healthy.

JBB's additions were great. But the core of the team won the cup.

 

[JoVel]

I think people are a little caught up in the moment in voting for JBB. I can't help but feel that this should be more lopsided for Yzerman. While JBB made the crucial depth moves in the end it's always way harder to build a core like this than find guys like Goodrow and Coleman.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

How in the world are those players more important than Point, Kucherov, and Palat? Those are the three guys, along with Hedman, who were the biggest parts of winning this cup, and all three of them were found after the 1st round.

The discussion isn't limited to which players are more important, because we are talking about everything the GM did. The degree of difficulty JBB pulled off in trading for two-thirds of our most outperforming line and a nice-fit D is extremely high. Also the fact that these trades not only made us better, but also plugged holes we didn't know we would have (Stamkos's injury and Rutta's injury), is some next-level risk mitigation.

Yzerman tried the deadline deal thing, but never hit on guys that really contributed that in that years playoffs. JBB tried it this year x3, and hit on all three.

Now all that said, I'm going to weasel out on this. Personally, I think that purely from the roster-building standpoint, it's more like 55-45 in favor of SY over JBB. But SY gets penalized for not seeing it through, so all things considered I give slightly more credit to JBB.

 

[hollandhouse]

This is a great debate. I NEVER thought about it and I instantly said Stevie Y, but after a quick thought I am STRONGLY moving my vote to JBB. I feel last years team was Stevie Y's....One of the best rosters statistically ever created, but I genuinely believed it was not the right mix for the playoffs. You only have to win 4 out of 7 not 6 out of 7, point being is you just need to be marginally better than your opponent, but you need to be strong and physically and mentally engaged to win those 16 games. Point being, JBB built a roster that at least can go 16 - 12 and make it durability wise to win the cup vs Stevie Y building a roster that he was aiming to go 16 - 4 to win the cup. Ok. So the biggest argument I will get is well anyone wants a tougher team, but this is what made me change my mind. SY would never have traded away two first rounders for role players. Honestly they may be horrible trades IF the Bolts did not win the cup. SY would NEVER have given up first round draft picks - and thats understandable, but players like Coleman and Goodrow are available every year and for five years SY refused to execute. With that being said I love what SY did for this team - he is great. Although, has SY's first rounders or recent draft picks....are they any good...I guess its still too early.