Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

[legitarita19]

*whispers* I can actually make a case for Raymond over Stutzle but refuse to burn this forum down

This is not a bad pick at all but it will be perceived as a "Thomas Hickey" moment. Not as bad since Hickey was a projected late first rounder but Raymond is most likely a 4-8 selection.

 

[The Lukeman]

*whispers* I can actually make a case for Raymond over Stutzle but refuse to burn this forum down

I would also be burning down this forum with you. I’m very high on Raymond.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

FYI, they have Byfield at #2, Raymond #3, Stuetzle #4.

 

[kilowatt]

*whispers* I can actually make a case for Raymond over Stutzle but refuse to burn this forum down

make the case

 

[Stimpythecat]

 

[bland]

No it doesn't. Stutzle's shot has miles of footage of it being a concern. The criticisms of Byfield's work ethic are evidence-less abstractions. And he's with Gary Roberts as we speak, so...

It may be an overstatement but the only levels he was a regular goal-scorer at were German juniors. Hell even at the WJC he had 0 goals and went PPG and there his shot was clearly a problem.

I think it can be worked on but if no one respects his shot, the rest of his game is also less effective as a result.

Wait, are we going to include each players sole WJCs as a point of contention here, 'cause...

So the kid has three years of junior/pro hockey under his belt, but only one of those years, the one where he is playing against fully grown men for the first time, is the one you want to use to measure him by?

Any yes, Byfield's motor is very much in question here.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wait, are we going to include each players sole WJCs as a point of contention here, 'cause...

So the kid has three years of junior/pro hockey under his belt, but only one of those years, the one where he is playing against fully grown men for the first time, is the one you want to use to measure him by?

Any yes, Byfield's motor is very much in question here.

You tell me, was Byfield a go to player and earning the same ice time at the same tournament?

In turn, Byfield has two years of highly successful seasons as a 16/17 year old in juniors, and a tournament he briefly played in is the one you use to measure him by?

How about you provide us with examples of Byfield’s poor work ethic. Or are we to rely on your baseless statements without any evidence?

 

[MrGuyPerson]

That was a fun interview, though it offered little insight. People tried to sneaky ask who it is at 2 by asking what type they prefer of the things the players are known for, but I think he side stepped them nice and that comment I size I believe he said it becomes a distinguishing factor in later rounds if you have taken 2 guys under 6'0. My guess is still Byfield too much Stutzle smoke currently, although Dillmans article today felt like a plea, "please be excited if he is the guy, I personally think he is"

 

[Johnny Utah]

This is just a mind f.

Byfield, Stuetzle, Byfield...

 

[BigKing]

This is just a mind f.

Byfield, Stuetzle, Byfield...

Byfield is Stutzle...Stutzle is Byfield!

 

[The Gabe Blade]

Byfield is Stutzle...Stutzle is Byfield!

 

[MrGuyPerson]

No it doesn't. Stutzle's shot has miles of footage of it being a concern. The criticisms of Byfield's work ethic are evidence-less abstractions. And he's with Gary Roberts as we speak, so...

It may be an overstatement but the only levels he was a regular goal-scorer at were German juniors. Hell even at the WJC he had 0 goals and went PPG and there his shot was clearly a problem.

I think it can be worked on but if no one respects his shot, the rest of his game is also less effective as a result.

In all fairness to the kid, he should have scored at least a few times in the tournament. Power might have ensured he did score, but I am pretty confident he still would score on those plays 9/10. Bad luck, but puck not in the net is puck not in the net. Like he should have scored on a borderline empty team canada net but the puck was passed behind him and the goalie dove back across the crease to pull it out. Also should have scored on team USA and Russia in similar but different circumstances.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wait, are we going to include each players sole WJCs as a point of contention here, 'cause...

So the kid has three years of junior/pro hockey under his belt, but only one of those years, the one where he is playing against fully grown men for the first time, is the one you want to use to measure him by?

Any yes, Byfield's motor is very much in question here.

No, I included "literally everything outside of German Juniors" as a point of contention. He's struggled to score goals in a variety of locales. WJC is just splitting hairs, but that's the most "north american" hockey vs. his true peers. He excelled, don't get me wrong, he was still PPG and visibly elite. But to pretend his shot is not an issue is just burying your head in the sand. I guess it could be a year-long unlucky streak that weirdly coincides with his visibly-deficient shot, though. But yes, I do want to use the most recent year vs. the most proficient competition as one of the most important weighted measurements.

And you didn't say motor, you said work ethic.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In all fairness to the kid, he should have scored at least a few times in the tournament. Power might have ensured he did score, but I am pretty confident he still would score on those plays 9/10. Bad luck, but puck not in the net is puck not in the net. Like he should have scored on a borderline empty team canada net but the puck was passed behind him and the goalie dove back across the crease to pull it out. Also should have scored on team USA and Russia in similar but different circumstances.

He "should have scored" a lot more this year in all scenarios, though. That's the knock. It's tangible upon view and it's got tangible lack-of-results. I'm still not sure why suggesting that's an issue is so controversial. how much of an issue it is is a fair discussion, as @bland points out, maybe it's an overstatement in the sense that he deferred a lot in the DEL, especially as he was mostly manning the point on the PP. I'm not sure I've seen him take more than a slap shot or two. But at all levels in all the highlights, the guy is firing into the goalie's crest a lot.

 

[DaveMatthew]

He "should have scored" a lot more this year in all scenarios, though. That's the knock. It's tangible upon view and it's got tangible lack-of-results. I'm still not sure why suggesting that's an issue is so controversial. how much of an issue it is is a fair discussion, as @bland points out, maybe it's an overstatement in the sense that he deferred a lot in the DEL, especially as he was mostly manning the point on the PP. I'm not sure I've seen him take more than a slap shot or two. But at all levels in all the highlights, the guy is firing into the goalie's crest a lot.

Neither Stutzle or Byfield are bullet-proof prospects. They each have flaws that can lead to doubts. If they didn't, they'd be Crosby and McDavid level talents. They're not.

What you called out about Stutzle is certainly fair. But what the other poster noted about Byfield is as well.

I'm a huge Byfield fan and have gotten the chance to watch him live quite often over the last 2 years, being an Ottawa 67s season ticket holder. I'd echo the other poster:

• At times, Byfield can look disinterested. He'll have these shifts where you don't notice he's on the ice, and then come out and dominate, using his size and speed for 30 seconds. You wonder, why doesn't he do that all the time? Some call this "pace" or "work ethic", but you do notice it.

• He plays a lot of the rush and succeeds because of his sheer size and speed advantage over many OHLers. That advantage will be very much negated in the NHL, where players are bigger, faster and smarter. He'll need to develop other parts of his game (offensive and defensive zone play) to become the dominant #1 he has the potential to be. People compare him to Malkin, but he plays differently. I see more Zibanejad - a big, fast north-south player.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Posted this in the Stutzle thread on the prospect board as well, just worth looking at from the meta perspective of how different the last few years hve been:

"It's wild how different Byfield and Stutzle are as players yet it's such a hard choice.

In one of these threads someone shared an Ottawa roster + Byfield and it's just full of mammoths with speed and skill, looks more like what you'd expect from a 2015ish Kings roster (maybe +/- some speed, heh). A Kings prospect roster + Stutzle would feature blazing speed and skill but average around 6 feet and fairly light. What a wild change in draft philosophies it's been.

The younger half of the Kings roster/top prospects would look like, minus Kopitar, Carter, Brown, and Doughty:

Iafallo (6'0) Stutzle (6'0) Kaliyev (6'2)
Kempe (6'2) Vilardi (6'3") Frk (6'1)
Kupari (6'1) Turcotte (5'11) Fagemo (5'11)
Wagner (6'1) Lizotte (5'7) Moore (5'10)
Anderson-Dolan (5'11), Madden (5'11)

Bjornfot (6'0) Roy (6'1)
Anderson (6'0) Walker (5'11)
Clague (6'0) MacDermid (6'5)
Hults (6'0), Brickley (6'0)

obviously that's completely arbitrary roster-ing and who knows what this draft looks like but that's LARGE departure from the past and has been factoring slightly into my Byfield choice. Some of those are pretty generous, too, heh."

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Byfield Added to Leadership Team – Sudbury Wolves
“We are excited to officially name Quinton Byfield as an Alternate Captain of our team,” said Sudbury Wolves Head Coach Cory Stillman. “His work ethic on the ice is the driving force behind our team every game.”

“Q has been an outstanding Sudbury Wolf since the day he joined our team,” said Rob Papineau, Sudbury Wolves VP and General Manager. “His leadership extends far beyond the ice, into also supporting so many young people in our community.”

2020 NHL Entry Draft Top 125: Alexis Lafrenière, Quinton Byfield continue to lead the pack
Not only is he a beast in the offensive zone, but Byfield is a regular contributor in his own end and is one of the OHL’s better penalty killers. He also is winning 53 percent of his draws.

2020 NHL Draft Positional Breakdown: Top Centers
NHL Central Scouting Report: "Powerful skater with breakaway speed. Excellent puck possession player with superior vision, creativity and playmaking ability. Heavy, accurate shot that can overpower goaltenders. Physically ready for the pro game. Works hard all over the ice with relentless play and never gives up on a puck. Plays in all situations and can take over a game at any time."

https://www.si.com/hockey/all-acces...ct-byfield-bigger-and-better-than-ever-before
“He’s a special player,” said Wolves coach Cory Stillman. “And it starts in practice. He wants to be the best player on the ice every day, and he has elevated our practices just with his work ethic. And when you get into the games, he gets the puck and he makes everyone around him better. He controls the play of the game. When we’ve needed a set play, we put the puck on his stick and he has no problems deciding what is the right play at that time. He wanted to be the No. 1 pick, and he wants to be the best player.”

Seems to contradict those who accuse the guy of being a floater with average to below average hockey IQ.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Neither Stutzle or Byfield are bullet-proof prospects. They each have flaws that can lead to doubts. If they didn't, they'd be Crosby and McDavid level talents. They're not.

What you called out about Stutzle is certainly fair. But what the other poster noted about Byfield is as well.

I'm a huge Byfield fan and have gotten the chance to watch him live quite often over the last 2 years, being an Ottawa 67s season ticket holder. I'd echo the other poster:

• At times, Byfield can look disinterested. He'll have these shifts where you don't notice he's on the ice, and then come out and dominate, using his size and speed for 30 seconds. You wonder, why doesn't he do that all the time? Some call this "pace" or "work ethic", but you do notice it.

• He plays a lot of the rush and succeeds because of his sheer size and speed advantage over many OHLers. That advantage will be very much negated in the NHL, where players are bigger, faster and smarter. He'll need to develop other parts of his game (offensive and defensive zone play) to become the dominant #1 he has the potential to be. People compare him to Malkin, but he plays differently. I see more Zibanejad - a big, fast north-south player.

If that's the criticism then I can go with it, but "work ethic" reads as off-ice concerns which isn't as provable and you're going to find more on-the-record evidence of the contrary.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Now this is the type of deep dive that we need: a breakdown of Tim Stuetzle's tape job.

 

[Jericho111091]

If that's the criticism then I can go with it, but "work ethic" reads as off-ice concerns which isn't as provable and you're going to find more on-the-record evidence of the contrary.

From what I've seen off-ice issues tend to be referred to as "attitude problems" and "work ethic" refers to lazy play. Not sure if either are applicable to Byfield though

 

[palffytofrovlov]

yuck!

Tim Steuzle
Helge Grans
Maxim Groshev
Roni Hirvonen
Luke Evangelista
William Villeneuve
Tristen Robins
Samuel Hlavaj

I like Pronman but whens the last time the Kings 1st 4 picks were Europeans? This is a team that usually selects OHL and American's. Yes the last 3 years more Europeans have been picked and I can see Grans in the 2nd round because one of those Dmen will be there but I think Byfield is the 1st pick.

 

[KINGS17]

Neither Stutzle or Byfield are bullet-proof prospects. They each have flaws that can lead to doubts. If they didn't, they'd be Crosby and McDavid level talents. They're not.

What you called out about Stutzle is certainly fair. But what the other poster noted about Byfield is as well.

I'm a huge Byfield fan and have gotten the chance to watch him live quite often over the last 2 years, being an Ottawa 67s season ticket holder. I'd echo the other poster:

• At times, Byfield can look disinterested. He'll have these shifts where you don't notice he's on the ice, and then come out and dominate, using his size and speed for 30 seconds. You wonder, why doesn't he do that all the time? Some call this "pace" or "work ethic", but you do notice it.

• He plays a lot of the rush and succeeds because of his sheer size and speed advantage over many OHLers. That advantage will be very much negated in the NHL, where players are bigger, faster and smarter. He'll need to develop other parts of his game (offensive and defensive zone play) to become the dominant #1 he has the potential to be. People compare him to Malkin, but he plays differently. I see more Zibanejad - a big, fast north-south player.

Sounds like the perfect understudy for Kopitar.

 

[DoktorJeep]

It sounds like if the Kings take Stutzle it’s because he’s the faster, quicker player; who they believe is a better fit for the identity they are trying to build.

Management has been consistent in their message that the direction of the roster will be to get younger and faster. So taking the flashier skater makes sense in that context. I don’t think it hurts either that Stutzle will be in either the AHL or NHL right away.

The BPA argument is unknowable at this point between QB and TS. But if management does draft TS, it will look an awful lot like drafting for need.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It sounds like if the Kings take Stutzle it’s because he’s the faster, quicker player; who they believe is a better fit for the identity they are trying to build.

Management has been consistent in their message that the direction of the roster will be to get younger and faster. So taking the flashier skater makes sense in that context. I don’t think it hurts either that Stutzle will be in either the AHL or NHL right away.

The BPA argument is unknowable at this point between QB and TS. But if management does draft TS, it will look an awful lot like drafting for need.

I think Stuetzle offers more than just an immediate need, because he’ll be an important part of the new core that they’re building, and I think that his teams relying on him heavily, from the DEL to WJC, is a sign that he has some leadership qualities and that he can thrive in high pressure situations.

Not that other options can’t do that as well, but Stuetzle may have that extra layer of it. I get more of a Nicklas Backstrom vibe from the way he plays and controls the game.

 

[KINGS17]

Posted this in the Stutzle thread on the prospect board as well, just worth looking at from the meta perspective of how different the last few years hve been:

"It's wild how different Byfield and Stutzle are as players yet it's such a hard choice.

In one of these threads someone shared an Ottawa roster + Byfield and it's just full of mammoths with speed and skill, looks more like what you'd expect from a 2015ish Kings roster (maybe +/- some speed, heh). A Kings prospect roster + Stutzle would feature blazing speed and skill but average around 6 feet and fairly light. What a wild change in draft philosophies it's been.

The younger half of the Kings roster/top prospects would look like, minus Kopitar, Carter, Brown, and Doughty:

Iafallo (6'0) Stutzle (6'0) Kaliyev (6'2)
Kempe (6'2) Vilardi (6'3") Frk (6'1)
Kupari (6'1) Turcotte (5'11) Fagemo (5'11)
Wagner (6'1) Lizotte (5'7) Moore (5'10)
Anderson-Dolan (5'11), Madden (5'11)

Bjornfot (6'0) Roy (6'1)
Anderson (6'0) Walker (5'11)
Clague (6'0) MacDermid (6'5)
Hults (6'0), Brickley (6'0)

obviously that's completely arbitrary roster-ing and who knows what this draft looks like but that's LARGE departure from the past and has been factoring slightly into my Byfield choice. Some of those are pretty generous, too, heh."

If I were Blake, I would reflect on the overall size of the teams which advanced the furthest in the playoffs.