Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

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Ziggy Stardust

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People rarely if ever bring up any warts about Byfield and when they do it is treated as a massive insult. I went through the prospect threads for both Stutzle and Byfield a while back and I honestly don't know what every one is saying. Stutzle gets ripped apart by damn near everyone, while I rarely if ever see anything negative mentioned about Byfield. The only thing I see is people attacking strawmen like you are doing here, so maybe that is what every one is seeing when they talk about these critiques?

I mean, read the threads on here about who to pick 2nd overall. It is rude as shit the way people are treating Stutzle, yet I see people complain about the negativity regarding Byfield.

Go ahead and post the stuff being said about Stutzle that's considered rude and ripping him apart. The only major criticism I've seen about him is his shot and his willingness to shoot. Is that bad?

You must've missed the comments on Byfield's IQ by those who can't even offer up an explanation when confronted about it. Some poster brought up "attitude" in one of the Byfield discussions that I believe may have been taken down. Others repeatedly question his IQ when the contrary has been said about him. It's like those who question black quarterbacks and their IQ and how they rely more on their skill. No undertones there I guess...

I also learned from these supposed criticisms that a player who is able to generate offense going north to south is considered a negative ability. You can go ahead and post all of these negative things that's being said about Stutzle and let's see how they compare.
 

crassbonanza

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Go ahead and post the stuff being said about Stutzle that's considered rude and ripping him apart. You missed the comments on Byfield's IQ? Some poster brought up "attitude" in one of the Byfield discussions that may have been taken down. Others question his IQ, y'know, like they say about black quarterbacks.

There were many people saying they did not want to draft Stutzle because of his place of origin. There are people calling him Strudel. There are tons of people guaranteeing that he will bust and there are people gleefully posting any ranking that has him ranked lower. I have never seen a potential prospect hated as much as Stutzle is on here, it's honestly kind of sad.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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There were many people saying they did not want to draft Stutzle because of his place of origin. There are people calling him Strudel. There are tons of people guaranteeing that he will bust and there are people gleefully posting any ranking that has him ranked lower. I have never seen a potential prospect hated as much as Stutzle is on here, it's honestly kind of sad.

That's one dolt, andys, who calls him Strudel. That's all you have to offer?

I guess you weren't around in 2008 when some fans did not like the idea of drafting Doughty because he was out of shape.
 

crassbonanza

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That's one dolt, andys, who calls him Strudel. That's all you have to offer?

I guess you weren't around in 2008 when some fans did not like the idea of drafting Doughty because he was out of shape.

I was around in '08 and no it was nothing like this. In fact, there was pretty healthy arguments for Bogo and Doughty, with a somewhat majority leaning Doughty. This discussion is full of abject hate towards Stutzle and the idea of the Kings potentially drafting him. I mean, people are coming up with conspiracy theories to explain why some scouts could even think about having him ranked 2nd. Does any one on here even bother trying to argue for Stutzle anymore?

For the record, I like both prospects a lot and have them ranked about even, so I am not a Stutzle homer by any means. I am just shocked how tilted people have been towards Stutzle all over HF and especially on here.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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I was around in '08 and no it was nothing like this. In fact, there was pretty healthy arguments for Bogo and Doughty, with a somewhat majority leaning Doughty. This discussion is full of abject hate towards Stutzle and the idea of the Kings potentially drafting him. I mean, people are coming up with conspiracy theories to explain why some scouts could even think about having him ranked 2nd. Does any one on here even bother trying to argue for Stutzle anymore?

For the record, I like both prospects a lot and have them ranked about even, so I am not a Stutzle homer by any means. I am just shocked how tilted people have been towards Stutzle all over HF and especially on here.

Maybe you can post some examples of this hatred. I’m not seeing it.
 

crassbonanza

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Maybe you can post some examples of this hatred. I’m not seeing it.

You know, I actually went through both the Byfield and Stutzle threads a couple of months ago and did exactly that. Pointed out the number of critiques for each and I believe I included links. If I find some time I will go back and do it again. I do think Stutzle get's treated very unfairly on here and I do think it is weird how people act defensive about Byfield when I see all of the criticism going towards Stutzle.
 

cyclones22

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I'm with Ziggy. You're not going to find anything of the sort here from anyone not named andys, who is on my ignore list. There is no "Stutzle hate" here, but there is skepticism over some aspects of his game and the DEL as a development path coupled with a preference for Byfield. If the Kings draft Stutzle, I have no doubt that the staunchest Byfield supporters here will back Stutzle 100%. Ziggy, RJ and others will I'm sure. In the end, it's the name on the front of the jersey for me, not the back. I don't bother to tie myself to prospects who aren't even Kings property.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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You know, I actually went through both the Byfield and Stutzle threads a couple of months ago and did exactly that. Pointed out the number of critiques for each and I believe I included links. If I find some time I will go back and do it again. I do think Stutzle get's treated very unfairly on here and I do think it is weird how people act defensive about Byfield when I see all of the criticism going towards Stutzle.

Aside from andys immature comments, the only major concerns expressed about Stutzle focuses on his shooting and the level of the competition in the DEL. His character and will isn’t brought into question as much as Byfield’s name is dragged through the mud when people want to criticize his game.

This is what’s been said about Q: He’s soft, has questionable IQ and an attitude issue because of this perceived lack of competitiveness. That’s the type of stuff that’s being challenged when unsubstantiated claims are being made about a kid. Show me how Stutzle is being unfairly treated like that.

This isn’t about me defending Byfield, this is about people being completely unfair and one sided in pointing out the flaws (and going so far to make stuff up) and not doing the same when discussing others. There’s one particular amateur whose entire focus on Byfield was to just point out his flaws. You think that’s an evenly balanced viewpoint?

I’d be just as critical if someone said the same thing about Stutzle, which I did when andys offered his worthless thoughts/insults on him.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Stutzle's got the tools to be a playmaking center or winger, though I'm thinking he's more likely to be a winger in the NHL. I say that with the knowledge that he mostly played wing in Germany and at the WJC.

He definitely needs to shoot more. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence in his shot, but he only registered 6 shots in 5 games at the WJC, and 2 of those 6 shots came against Kazakhstan (and he didn't register a goal). In the DEL, he averaged a little over 2 shots per game (88 shots in 41 games).

If he's not much of a goal scorer at those levels, it makes sense why some would be concerned about how much of a goal scorer he can be in the NHL and on a smaller surface against bigger and more physical competition. That said, his skating is a huge asset and him adding some muscle and strength is going to make him a difficult player to defend. He's an elusive player who can back off defenders with his speed.

Hard to say how much his shot can improve or if he'll somehow become more of a shooter in the next level. He scored 5 even strength goals in 41 games in Germany. We already get frustrated by many players on this team who are reluctant shooters, so do you need to surround him with finishers to fully capitalize on his strengths, or is he going to be good enough to make his wingers into scoring threats? That remains to be determined.

If the Kings were still sitting at #4, of course we'd all be doing backflips if Stutzle fell to that spot. Until the results of the draft lottery, we were mostly sold on Stutzle with some leaning towards Lucas Raymond, Marco Rossi or Jamie Drysdale. Now they can guarantee themselves Stutzle or go with Byfield, who to me has the highest ceiling in this draft.

The question is, is Stutzle closer to reaching his ceiling, and would you be willing to wait 3-4 seasons for Byfield to make a huge impact, which is about the time it took for guys like Draisaitl and Barkov to break out.
 

Statto

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There were many people saying they did not want to draft Stutzle because of his place of origin. There are people calling him Strudel. There are tons of people guaranteeing that he will bust and there are people gleefully posting any ranking that has him ranked lower. I have never seen a potential prospect hated as much as Stutzle is on here, it's honestly kind of sad.
I’ve not see anyone say they didn’t want Stützle because he is German. I have blocked the person making the Strudel comments, so was it him? If not who?

I have certainly questioned the quality of the DEL, as have others, as I don’t think the ‘he’s played with men’ argument for him holds up, but that’s about that one issue. I’m also basing my view having seen plenty of DEL teams live, so it’s certainly not some xenophobic assertion.

I’ve firmly in the Byfield camp but I’ve also stated more than once that I’d get over it quickly if we draft him and if we were picking 3OA he’d be my pick. The most important part of this though is that this is ultimately about me really wanting Byfield as opposed to not wanting Stützle.
 

Steve Zissou

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I’ve not see anyone say they didn’t want Stützle because he is German. I have blocked the person making the Strudel comments, so was it him?

He lit up the Byfield Prospects Board like a Christmas tree the past couple of months. Went on a binge by hi-jacking the thread and now hasn't been seen since 9/13.

Boy, he really did a # on our image around these parts, however Hollywood it is. With that said, every day since 9/13 has been a holiday treat.

Byfield or Stutzle, I'd say our prospect pool is gonna be even more exciting after this years draft.
 

MrGuyPerson

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Guys people on reddit seem to be familiar with this thread
 

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BigKing

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It isn't a matter of hating Stutzle but rather much preferring Byfield.

At the time the Kings won the 2nd pick, Byfield was in the midst of getting jumped by Stutzle with the latter being the hot, sexy pick. Byfield was getting trashed--at least as much as a consensus 2-3OA can be--while Stutzle seemed to have no warts to his game. It is under that environment that this thread started so those of us that preferred Byfield had to throw cold water on the Stutzle love fest.

Even so, most have said they will be happy with either and whomever is taken at #2 will instantly shoot to the top of the Kings prospect list. It does seem that Byfield has picked up steam as we get closer to the draft and it makes sense: he was the consensus #2 all season and really didn't do anything to lose the spot. Stutzle was a classic draft-year riser that got the infamous WJC bump. As we get further away from recency bias, Byfield is going to look more attractive since his measurables are inarguable. Coupled with that, Stutzle has been sitting at #2 on a lot of lists and there has now been time to nitpick his game like Byfield experienced previously.

As for 2008, we didn't know what it was like to win anything so the debate wasn't as "intense". We actually know what hitting the jackpot on a pick like this can do now so everyone knows that this can potentially put us on the path to being a force again. It's really f***ing important.
 

jhutter

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Grant McCagg was on the Sens Nation Podcast and didn't have a lot of great things to say about Byfield. Really hoping you guys select him at #2.
 

jhutter

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So you come here to tell us how one guy had negative things to say about Byfield without divulging what was said and hope the Kings take him based on that. You sure are a peach.

I was bringing up what I thought was a relatively obscure podcast that likely wasn't listened to by Kings fans. I want Stutzle, but I'd be more than willing to listen to a scout talk about what he doesn't like about him. I've also been saying that I want the Kings to select Byfield for months, McCagg's interview had nothing to do with it.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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I was bringing up what I thought was a relatively obscure podcast that likely wasn't listened to by Kings fans. I want Stutzle, but I'd be more than willing to listen to a scout talk about what he doesn't like about him. I've also been saying that I want the Kings to select Byfield for months, McCagg's interview had nothing to do with it.

Make yourself useful then and share a link and share what this scout had to say.
 

jhutter

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Make yourself useful then and share a link and share what this scout had to say.

https://www.sensnationpodcast.com/

I thought it was a bit of a strange interview. He almost had a stroke when asked about Byfield/Beliveau comparisons. Also mentioned that some scouts see Byfield as a third line center. Talked about him potentially being a 2C, but also went on to mention that Ottawa couldn't go wrong selecting him at 3, and that he'd be in the top 10-20 centers in the NHL. I'm starting to hear some talk about Sanderson at three, but I can't see Byfield falling past #3.

I think L.A. drafts Stutzle over Byfield and is very happy three years down the road that they did so, but that's just me.
 

cyclones22

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I can see why they'd be so insecure. The Kings have the #2 pick. They've also accomplished 2 things Senators haven't. Won a Stanley Cup and defeated the Ducks in a playoff series. Thanks a lot for failing on the second one, jerks.
 
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