Who do you want at third overall?

[jmelm]

I thought of another scenario where we pay the Habs to not draft Wright, where they pick Slafkovsky and having NJ reevaluate about trading the 2nd overall.

I think you're thinking too hard

It would cost A LOT to maneuver something like that, and you would have to have deals with BOTH NJ and MTL (like the 1-2-3 picks example from 2003 with PIT, FLA and CAR I mentioned before), so it would have to be a 3-way.

 

[Nowotny]

Strome was one of the most productive junior players in modern history. Elite all-time production. He had only skating issues, much like Cooley has only size issues. Cooley doesn't have that same eye-popping production, however. I don't think Cooley is a markedly better prospect than Strome excluding hindsight from the analysis.

I'm just nitpicking, though. I completely agree with you. I want Cooley, I love that he's going to be a Gopher next season, and I think he's a great prospect with a great development path laid out before him.

With Marner vs Strome, my heart said Marner. He was such much more impressive to watch. Way more fun. But my head said we had to take the C. This time, with Cooley, it's both. He's the most fun player in the draft AND he's a center. Best of both. No-brainer.


He might be the best player available next draft, but I'm not sure I'd take him before 3rd overall. I just don't want to wait years and years for his arrival. If he even wants to come to Phoenix. Too much uncertainty for my taste, at the moment. I'd rather take a kid like Bedard or even Fantilli. They may not be quite as good, but they're future all-stars, and you don't have to take years convincing them to come play.

I don't think Coyotes are in a position to take chances with high draft picks on Russian players.There is a lot of uncertainty right now and it may get worse in a hurry.We may have another iron curtain soon.

 

[jmelm]

I don't think Coyotes are in a position to take chances with high draft picks on Russian players.There is a lot of uncertainty right now and it may get worse in a hurry.We may have another iron curtain soon.

I don't agree. We could be there at the CAR or COL pick and looking at a player with top 10 talent and a clear tier or two above everyone else available. If that's the case, we would be stupid to not take one or two of those guys with the 2 late 1sts + 4 second round picks. It's precisely because we have so many picks that we can afford to take the chance at that point in the draft.

The Russian factor is how Tarasenko, Kuznetsov and Kucherov fell in those '10 and '11 drafts. And we don't even know if there will be an issue for the players by the time they are ready, and if there is, whether it may also effect existing NHL players who aren't citizens/green card holders. Think about K. Kaprizov for example, just to name one.

 

[Jakey53]

I don't agree. We could be there at the CAR or COL pick and looking at a player with top 10 talent and a clear tier or two above everyone else available. If that's the case, we would be stupid to not take one or two of those guys with the 2 late 1sts + 4 second round picks. It's precisely because we have so many picks that we can afford to take the chance at that point in the draft.

The Russian factor is how Tarasenko, Kuznetsov and Kucherov fell in those '10 and '11 drafts. And we don't even know if there will be an issue for the players by the time they are ready, and if there is, whether it may also effect existing NHL players who aren't citizens/green card holders. Think about K. Kaprizov for example, just to name one.

Hind site is great, isn't it. I can see arguments for both sides, not sure what I would do, but BA will have much more info than us at draft time, or at least I hope he does. I guess we will get our answer in a couple of months.

 

[jmelm]

Hind site is great, isn't it. I can see arguments for both sides, not sure what I would do, but BA will have much more info than us at draft time, or at least I hope he does. I guess we will get our answer in a couple of months.

No, hindsight is saying scouts shouldn't have put so much weight into assuming players like Roope Hintz or Jason Robertson should have been downgraded because of their skating, or that Alex DeBrincat shouldn't have been overlooked because of his size.

At the time of the 2010 draft, however, many scouts had Tarasenko and/or Kuznetsov in the top 10 range of talent, and they only fell because of the Russian factor. That's a different assessment of saying that they love everything about those players EXCEPT for what country they came from, rather than because they had holes in their game or skill level, etc.

The choice to push guys like Geekie (skating, compete) or Savoie/Nazar/Howard/Firkus/etc. (size) down the list is because of concerns about their tools or physical makeup. But the reason to drop guys like Yurov, Trikozov and others is because they are Russian and only for that reason.

 

[PainForShane]

No, hindsight is saying scouts shouldn't have put so much weight into assuming players like Roope Hintz or Jason Robertson should have been downgraded because of their skating, or that Alex DeBrincat shouldn't have been overlooked because of his size.

At the time of the 2010 draft, however, many scouts had Tarasenko and/or Kuznetsov in the top 10 range of talent, and they only fell because of the Russian factor. That's a different assessment of saying that they love everything about those players EXCEPT for what country they came from, rather than because they had holes in their game or skill level, etc.

The choice to push guys like Geekie (skating, compete) or Savoie/Nazar/Howard/Firkus/etc. (size) down the list is because of concerns about their tools or physical makeup. But the reason to drop guys like Yurov, Trikozov and others is because they are Russian and only for that reason.

Agree with all of this, but the bigger point is that we have so many draft picks in the first couple rounds (which you said in your previous post but imo we've sort of gotten off track). To use a baseball analogy, we can afford to take a few home run swings, so what if we strike out a few times.

Also remember our man Bill Armstrong was literally the guy who picked Tarasenko (and the rest of the Blues core), I have absolutely faith in his ability to draft to find quality players in that late first / early second round range -- which is, strangely enough where many of our picks are. So, cautiously optimistic about what draft day will bring

 

[Jakey53]

No, hindsight is saying scouts shouldn't have put so much weight into assuming players like Roope Hintz or Jason Robertson should have been downgraded because of their skating, or that Alex DeBrincat shouldn't have been overlooked because of his size.

At the time of the 2010 draft, however, many scouts had Tarasenko and/or Kuznetsov in the top 10 range of talent, and they only fell because of the Russian factor. That's a different assessment of saying that they love everything about those players EXCEPT for what country they came from, rather than because they had holes in their game or skill level, etc.

The choice to push guys like Geekie (skating, compete) or Savoie/Nazar/Howard/Firkus/etc. (size) down the list is because of concerns about their tools or physical makeup. But the reason to drop guys like Yurov, Trikozov and others is because they are Russian and only for that reason.

No one knows for certain what kind of player they will be getting at the draft. Sure there may be exceptions, but most times it's all hope. Scouts make mistakes all the time, even after watching these players for years. You weren't in the drafting rooms so you can't say you know why certain players fell in the draft.

 

[BAdvocate]

i only asked because you have many picks. your highest point player was 63 points yet you have ZERO interest in trading for an 85 point player? im confused.

The Wild scored 305 goals via 512 assists. The Coyotes scored 206 goals via 350 assists. How many points points do you think Fiala would have had on the Coyotes?

 

[jmelm]

Agree with all of this, but the bigger point is that we have so many draft picks in the first couple rounds (which you said in your previous post but imo we've sort of gotten off track). To use a baseball analogy, we can afford to take a few home run swings, so what if we strike out a few times.

Also remember our man Bill Armstrong was literally the guy who picked Tarasenko (and the rest of the Blues core), I have absolutely faith in his ability to draft to find quality players in that late first / early second round range -- which is, strangely enough where many of our picks are. So, cautiously optimistic about what draft day will bring

Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing. I don't have any problem taking "risks" because we have so many picks, and because I trust BA & Co's judgement in making those calculated assessments.

Some people here (just as some scouts would) have advocated a more cautious approach, such as not wanting to trade up so we've got more darts to throw at the board. I take the opposite view, that I would like to see us be aggressive and trade up if there's a player who they think is a difference maker. Similarly, if there's a meaningful talent gap between one of the available Russian players vs. who else may be on the board, we absolutely should go for it with at least one or two of the picks in the first 2 or 3 rounds.

Maybe I'm being ignorant or am just wrong, but I don't see how Russian players drafted in 2022 would be treated differently than players drafted in 2021, 2020 or other prior years. I assume that if there was a blanket ban on Russian players getting the appropriate visas, wouldn't it also affect players playing in the NHL today who are not green card holders or citizens? What would that do to guys like Kaprizov, Shesterkin, and others. So maybe I'm being naieve but I have to think that even if it becomes a temporary issue, it hopefully wouldn't become a long term issue, and therefore hopefully won't influence our draft decisions too much.

 

[PainForShane]

Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing. I don't have any problem taking "risks" because we have so many picks, and because I trust BA & Co's judgement in making those calculated assessments.

Some people here (just as some scouts would) have advocated a more cautious approach, such as not wanting to trade up so we've got more darts to throw at the board. I take the opposite view, that I would like to see us be aggressive and trade up if there's a player who they think is a difference maker. Similarly, if there's a meaningful talent gap between one of the available Russian players vs. who else may be on the board, we absolutely should go for it with at least one or two of the picks in the first 2 or 3 rounds.

Maybe I'm being ignorant or am just wrong, but I don't see how Russian players drafted in 2022 would be treated differently than players drafted in 2021, 2020 or other prior years. I assume that if there was a blanket ban on Russian players getting the appropriate visas, wouldn't it also affect players playing in the NHL today who are not green card holders or citizens? What would that do to guys like Kaprizov, Shesterkin, and others. So maybe I'm being naieve but I have to think that even if it becomes a temporary issue, it hopefully wouldn't become a long term issue, and therefore hopefully won't influence our draft decisions too much.

Yeah we are (saying the same thing). I mean, we're not saying the exact same thing but we're saying complementary things so all good.

If you want a good watch, Sportsnet's "hey burkie" series has a good video on Pavel Bure (honestly they're all amazing, this is a good quality youtube series), it's at .

Best lines, "Q: how did you get him? A: Well, we had to sue the Russians"

Agree we should target these guys later if they're available, why not. Time to swing for outer space, boys. Even if we miss we still have plenty of other at-bats

 

[jmelm]

Yeah we are (saying the same thing). I mean, we're not saying the exact same thing but we're saying complementary things so all good.

If you want a good watch, Sportsnet's "hey burkie" series has a good video on Pavel Bure (honestly they're all amazing, this is a good quality youtube series), it's at .

Best lines, "Q: how did you get him? A: Well, we had to sue the Russians"

Agree we should target these guys later if they're available, why not. Time to swing for outer space, boys. Even if we miss we still have plenty of other at-bats

That was great, thanks for sharing. I'll have to watch the others.

Indeed, with multitude of picks in the draft and despite wanting to hit big on all of them, I'll be of if we can get just one Pavel Bure in this year's draft