Who do you want at third overall?

[hbk]

Someone is really trying to explain what is going on in this rebuild to us like this is new? Honestly really? This has to be a joke right?

 

[gorsk11]

I never made disparaging remarks, n'or personal. I also know how to read cap dollars. but, you cant put your head in the sand that an "owner" would not want to save $6.8M free and clear, and with your UFAs expiring, and the massive youth movement for the Yotes, I do believe the Yotes will need a free contract to hit the floor.

Management is not going to go on a spending spree this off season, and there wont be a lineup of players wanting to play in a small arena. N/I is going to be in the red (like it or not) - that's why the strategy has been to completely rebuild, and currently being done right.

Owner is not going to approve spending until they are in the new arena.

The coyotes are not going to give up an asset to take it on for 4 years. I doubt MTL gets an asset for trading the conract

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I never made disparaging remarks, n'or personal. I also know how to read cap dollars. but, you cant put your head in the sand that an "owner" would not want to save $6.8M free and clear, and with your UFAs expiring, and the massive youth movement for the Yotes, I do believe the Yotes will need a free contract to hit the floor.

Management is not going to go on a spending spree this off season, and there wont be a lineup of players wanting to play in a small arena. N/I is going to be in the red (like it or not) - that's why the strategy has been to completely rebuild, and currently being done right.

Owner is not going to approve spending until they are in the new arena.

Dumb as f***. The owner will spend before opening season in the new barn because he wants a winning team to add synergy to the excitement of a new arena. The rebuild will have gone on for 3 years by then. And the team will be ready to spend for high level players.

Bye.

 

[themilosh]

The coyotes are not going to give up an asset to take it on for 4 years. I doubt MTL gets an asset for trading the conract

I can see them giving up a draft pick to take the free money. for the next two years, and then "strike a deal" with Nashville (to get more assets) - as If/when Weber either retires or is bought out the cap recapture goes to Nashville and it would be crippling to them.

Dumb as f***. The owner will spend before opening season in the new barn because he wants a winning team to add synergy to the excitement of a new arena. The rebuild will have gone on for 3 years by then. And the team will be ready to spend for high level players.

Bye.

I do agree with you that ownership will want the team fully stocked and to the cap ceiling before they take possession of new arena, to hit the ground running. but not before.

 

[RemoAZ]

It's laughable that they'd give up a pick to take a contract. There's plenty of shorter deals for players teams want to unload that will gain us picks. The owner has been letting Armstrong take on salary for the last two years for picks. He'll let him continue to do that. If he can't get his land deal, he'll either sell the team or move. Big money is coming to him one way or the other.

 

[hbk]

If our second choice was to give up a 4th to snag Smith and Little’s contract why are we paying a 1st for Weber’s? I think there is a prospect in play as well that is being conveniently left out of this narrative.

 

[Mangosteen]

Let’s be respectful. Remember our team makes us look like fools. It’s up to us to explain to the best of our knowledge what we believe is going on. Much like us, other fans are just going by reports and media.

It’s what we are basically building our arguments on, just with a different lens.

I don’t think in the history of the NHL has a team ever played in small venue building well trying to find an arena.

 

[themilosh]

For next season? Technically the Coyotes are not above the cap floor, but they still have contracts to sort through.
As for the stadium troll statement, yes they will be playing in a college arena while a new arena will be built by our real estate mogul, which also includes the entertainment district alongside
Tempe Town Lake after they expand it. It is unfortunate that Glendale wouldn't negotiate a shorter term contract so they could stay there while a new arena is built. I can see another phase to AM's development on the other side of Preist, along Rio Salado.

Sorry about running my sentences together, but you get the jist...

what the Yotes need to pull off is getting Auston Matthews to sign - might be via trade (doubtful) but I have a feeling he is eyeing a return home, and "if" he makes it to UFA - you know AZ will have first choice.

If our second choice was to give up a 4th to snag Smith and Little’s contract why are we paying a 1st for Weber’s? I think there is a prospect in play as well that is being conveniently left out of this narrative.

the 1st was a joke - realistically I could see AZ giving up a 3rd at best 5th at worst.

 

[themilosh]

Let’s be respectful. Remember our team makes us look like fools. It’s up to us to explain to the best of our knowledge what we believe is going on. Much like us, other fans are just going by reports and media.

It’s what we are basically building our arguments on, just with a different lens.

I don’t think in the history of the NHL has a team ever played in small venue building well trying to find an arena.

i think Carolina did it for a few years in Raleigh, post Whalers - and they were in bad shape for a few years until they got their stadium.. I dont think the fan base is quite understanding how brutal it is for players (to have worked their whole lives to make the NHL) only to be stuck playing in an Arena that is smaller than some OHL franchises. There will be no UFAs wanting to sign unless stupid money is thrown their way, and hopefully it doesn't have a negative effect on the young guns, 'cause they may be requesting trades like Chychrun.

 

[hbk]

i think Carolina did it for a few years in Raleigh, post Whalers - and they were in bad shape for a few years until they got their stadium.. I dont think the fan base is quite understanding how brutal it is for players (to have worked their whole lives to make the NHL) only to be stuck playing in an Arena that is smaller than some OHL franchises. There will be no UFAs wanting to sign unless stupid money is thrown their way, and hopefully it doesn't have a negative effect on the young guns, 'cause they may be requesting trades like Chychrun.

We are literally going to have teams handing us draft picks to take their overpriced/underperforming player. Why wiuld we go after any premium UFA’s? As for players wanting to sign here. McBain signed here. He could have just gone free agent. smith just signed. He could have just gone free agent. Where you see problems pther players are seeing opportunities and an nhl pay check.

 

[TheLegend]

Someone is really trying to explain what is going on in this rebuild to us like this is new? Honestly really? This has to be a joke right?

I dunno…. just catching up on this spiffy conversation but if we’re spitballing about Weber’s contract here…

1 OA + Weber + ????

For the 3OA

 

[hbk]

I dunno…. just catching up on this spiffy conversation but if we’re spitballing about Weber’s contract here…

1 OA + Weber + ????

For the 3OA

If draft wasn’t in Montreal i would ponder this more. Given the optics in Montreal zero chance.

 

[Grimes]

Guhle + Weber for Timmins and a 2nd. If they say no switch out Timmins for Soderstrom and drop the 2nd.

 

[jmelm]

I never made disparaging remarks, n'or personal. I also know how to read cap dollars. but, you cant put your head in the sand that an "owner" would not want to save $6.8M free and clear, and with your UFAs expiring, and the massive youth movement for the Yotes, I do believe the Yotes will need a free contract to hit the floor.

Management is not going to go on a spending spree this off season, and there wont be a lineup of players wanting to play in a small arena. N/I is going to be in the red (like it or not) - that's why the strategy has been to completely rebuild, and currently being done right.

Owner is not going to approve spending until they are in the new arena.

Oh wait, so you know the owner personally, his innermost thoughts, and his short and long term business strategy? And you know that he's only motivated by financial decisions and not at all based on being passionate about hockey and can afford to spend extra money if he prioritizes the success of his hockey team rather than solely about having a few extra million to add to his pocket? That's really interesting, and please tell him that we all say hello.

You also said "I do believe the Yotes will need a free contract....". Belief is inherently subjective and, like faith, is what you cling to when you can't rely on actual facts or evidence -- otherwise it would just be "observation", and belief wouldn't be necessary.

The actual facts & evidence in this case is that we have existing players we're happy to pay, we have a GM and owner who are ACTIVELY soliciting taking on other team's contracts & players they don't want so they can stockpile picks.

So their plan is not about going "on a spending spree this offseason" as you suggested.
These are the kinds of things you would know if you did even cursory research or informed yourself before talking a bunch of nonsense, and you would discover that "belief" or your personal opinion are completely unnecessary when you have actual knowledge.

So you can actual go do some research so you can make informed statements on the subject -- we always welcome people here who share perspectives based on actual information and not unfounded "belief" -- or you can forgo informing yourself and instead just "put your head in the sand."

 

[moosemeister]

jmelm dunking like Jordan in the 90s right now. Haha. Love it

 

[PainForShane]

Oh wait, so you know the owner personally, his innermost thoughts, and his short and long term business strategy? And you know that he's only motivated by financial decisions and not at all based on being passionate about hockey and can afford to spend extra money if he prioritizes the success of his hockey team rather than solely about having a few extra million to add to his pocket? That's really interesting, and please tell him that we all say hello.

You also said "I do believe the Yotes will need a free contract....". Belief is inherently subjective and, like faith, is what you cling to when you can't rely on actual facts or evidence -- otherwise it would just be "observation", and belief wouldn't be necessary.

The actual facts & evidence in this case is that we have existing players we're happy to pay, we have a GM and owner who are ACTIVELY soliciting taking on other team's contracts & players they don't want so they can stockpile picks.

So their plan is not about going "on a spending spree this offseason" as you suggested.
These are the kinds of things you would know if you did even cursory research or informed yourself before talking a bunch of nonsense, and you would discover that "belief" or your personal opinion are completely unnecessary when you have actual knowledge.

So you can actual go do some research so you can make informed statements on the subject -- we always welcome people here who share perspectives based on actual information and not unfounded "belief" -- or you can forgo informing yourself and instead just "put your head in the sand."

Wish there were a "clap" emoji, I would have used it here.

It's hard for him. We've given him the capfriendly links and tried to explain it to him but it seems like he's unable to process the information for some reason. Literally every single person here has told him Weber's contract is not an asset (most have also told him why) and yet he still believes.

I think the strangest / most amusing part of this is that he thinks he has never been condescending or disparaging. Like, has he read his last post before (or after) he posted it? This is definitely one of the more... unique... conversations I've seen so far on these boards. At least the internal ones.

**

Lastly who abbreviates "Net Income" N/I -- in business context it's NI and in non-business contexts (like this one) no one will know what you're talking about so you'd need to write out the full term. Better to just say "profit" which is usually used interchangeably and that way people will know what you mean. My friend Milosh would've known that. Oh well. For those who don't know and are curious here is the full link / top level explanation

Net income - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jmelm]

Guhle + Weber for Timmins and a 2nd. If they say no switch out Timmins for Soderstrom and drop the 2nd.

How about we just trade the 3rd overall pick for Weber's contract straight up? You know, because we need the money so badly...

 

[The Feckless Puck]

the 1st was a joke - realistically I could see AZ giving up a 3rd at best 5th at worst.

While you are correct that Weber's contract might end up being necessary to get us to the cap floor in certain circumstances, it is nowhere near a necessity to the point that we would sacrifice any significant assets for it. Montreal needs to get rid of Weber a lot more desperately than Arizona needs to acquire him.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

If Montreal management is dumb some team will fleece them.

 

[PainForShane]

You know... was just thinking. Back to the topic of this thread.

Do we want to keep 3OA to draft Cooley (or maybe a D)? I kind of do (am partial to Cooley). Are other ppl ok with trading down to maybe get other assets? rt made a pretty good point I thought, I really don't know enough about prospects to have an informed decision beyond the very top of the draft

 

[jmelm]

Wish there were a "clap" emoji, I would have used it here.

It's hard for him. We've given him the capfriendly links and tried to explain it to him but it seems like he's unable to process the information for some reason. Literally every single person here has told him Weber's contract is not an asset (most have also told him why) and yet he still believes.

I think the strangest / most amusing part of this is that he thinks he has never been condescending or disparaging. Like, has he read his last post before (or after) he posted it? This is definitely one of the more... unique... conversations I've seen so far on these boards. At least the internal ones.

**

Lastly who abbreviates "Net Income" N/I -- in business context it's NI and in non-business contexts (like this one) no one will know what you're talking about so you'd need to write out the full term. Better to just say "profit" which is usually used interchangeably and that way people will know what you mean. My friend Milosh would've known that. Oh well. For those who don't know and are curious here is the full link / top level explanation

Net income - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, just to correct you, there is a clap emoji lol



In addition to what you said, someone talking about net income or profit would know -- especially when you have someone like our owner with multiple business which no doubt have a complex holding company structure controlling them -- that you can write off or deduct losses from one business against the profit of another; so your taxable income (or the adverse impact of the loss) is decreased.

Also, let's not forget: these billionaire owners are vain and egotistical as f**k. You don't go buy a $1 million watch or own 30 sports cars and all the other expensive toys because they're a good investment. No: you usually take a bath on a lot of that shit. So while owning a sports team can indeed be a great investment over time the way these franchise values are appreciating, these owners are also largely driven by vanity and ego. They want a team that wins. As Terry Pegula in Buffalo said when asked about whether he was willing to spend and make the financial commitment to the Sabres, he replied "if I want to make money, I'll go drill another oil well", and that the ownership and operations of the sports team was completely irrelevant to his finances and expenditures -- he just wanted to win.

If our owner was concerned about money, he wouldn't give the green light to our general manager to go acquire other team's shitty contracts so we can spend more money to essentially "buy draft picks". Again....the kind of basic information that would be available if someone cared to lift even 1 finger and do a bit of research before vomiting up a bunch of bullshit garbage and thinking that is either commentary or insight. LOL.

 

[moosemeister]

I’m approaching this draft keeping next year in mind. I’d rather have Bedard, Fantilli and Michkov over Cooley. There isn’t a single defender next year I take over Nemec or Jiricek. BA is NOT building a team where our top two centers could potentially be below 5’11”. It’s not happening, especially since we are in the Bedard running already. Haha

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I’m approaching this draft keeping next year in mind. I’d rather have Bedard, Fantilli and Michkov over Cooley. There isn’t a single defender next year I take over Nemec or Jiricek. BA is NOT building a team where our top two centers could potentially be below 5’11”. It’s not happening, especially since we are in the Bedard running already. Haha

There is always the possibility that the team over performs next season. If we were to pass on a Cooley and miss out on the big 5 centers next draft we would be kicking ourselves.

 

[Jakey53]

i think Carolina did it for a few years in Raleigh, post Whalers - and they were in bad shape for a few years until they got their stadium.. I dont think the fan base is quite understanding how brutal it is for players (to have worked their whole lives to make the NHL) only to be stuck playing in an Arena that is smaller than some OHL franchises. There will be no UFAs wanting to sign unless stupid money is thrown their way, and hopefully it doesn't have a negative effect on the young guns, 'cause they may be requesting trades like Chychrun.

There will be plenty of UFA's wanting to sign here, you know the one's, the old and over the hill, like we had on our roster this year. Very few players who are worth weight in salt will sign here until the new arena is confirmed. This is by plan by the way. It gives us time until the kids have developed and it gives these old farts a chance to continue their career.

 

[Jormungandr]

You know... was just thinking. Back to the topic of this thread.

Do we want to keep 3OA to draft Cooley (or maybe a D)? I kind of do (am partial to Cooley). Are other ppl ok with trading down to maybe get other assets? rt made a pretty good point I thought, I really don't know enough about prospects to have an informed decision beyond the very top of the draft

Use the pick. The whole reason to tank is to end up with these high picks. You don’t just trade them away after achieving them.

There is always the possibility that the team over performs next season. If we were to pass on a Cooley and miss out on the big 5 centers next draft we would be kicking ourselves.

Yup. Passing on Cooley because “we might get Bedard next year” is an awful idea.