He was beautiful to watch, could play keep away with the ball from the other team for 90 minutes, but from the same era, I take Rivaldo ahead of him 10 times out of 10
Who do you consider the greatest footballer of all time now ?
- Thread starter ViD
- Start date
I loved Juan Roman Riquleme for that as well. I think he was underrated as a player. Certainly by the buffoon LVG hence Messi's post match celebration of cupping the ears towards him.
Bielsa failed to use him in 2002. Pekerman well the less said the better. Elegant, immense technique, strength and impeccable vision.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
Zidane wasn't exactly underrated. Was pretty widely considered the best in the world in the gap years between Fat Ronaldo and Messi/Cristiano Ronaldo.
- 7 Ballon D'Ors (4 in a row)
- 6 European Golden Shoes (3 in a row)
- 6 FIFA Player of the Years (4 in a row)
- 2 World Cup Golden Balls
- 2 Club World Cup Golden Balls
- 2 Copa America Golden Balls
- 15 Starting XI First Team Selections (in a row)
- 2022 World Cup Champion
- 2021 Copa America Champion
- 2008 Olympic Gold Medalist
- 2022 Finalissima Champion + MOTM
- 4 Champions League Titles
- 11 Domestic League Titles
- 7 Copa Del Rey Titles
- 9 Domestic Super Cup Titles
- 3 UEFA Super Cups
- 3 Club World Cup Titles
- 1143 goal contributions across 1003 career matches
- 91 goals scored in a calendar year
Resume-wise, Messi is now far and wide the greatest player in the history of football, he's won everything there is to win club, country, and individual, he's done it for 15 years and counting at the highest level, and he's probably the most complete player ever as well. Only Pele has an argument in terms of achievement but he never played in Europe. Maradona might be the BOAT in terms of raw skills, but his resume doesn't compare to Messi's especially after this World Cup win, which was the only advantage Maradona had for about a decade now. Ronaldo is right up there too but his resume and stats are just short of Messi in nearly every category.
Messi is also going to continue adding to his resume which is the scariest part
- 6 European Golden Shoes (3 in a row)
- 6 FIFA Player of the Years (4 in a row)
- 2 World Cup Golden Balls
- 2 Club World Cup Golden Balls
- 2 Copa America Golden Balls
- 15 Starting XI First Team Selections (in a row)
- 2022 World Cup Champion
- 2021 Copa America Champion
- 2008 Olympic Gold Medalist
- 2022 Finalissima Champion + MOTM
- 4 Champions League Titles
- 11 Domestic League Titles
- 7 Copa Del Rey Titles
- 9 Domestic Super Cup Titles
- 3 UEFA Super Cups
- 3 Club World Cup Titles
- 1143 goal contributions across 1003 career matches
- 91 goals scored in a calendar year
Resume-wise, Messi is now far and wide the greatest player in the history of football, he's won everything there is to win club, country, and individual, he's done it for 15 years and counting at the highest level, and he's probably the most complete player ever as well. Only Pele has an argument in terms of achievement but he never played in Europe. Maradona might be the BOAT in terms of raw skills, but his resume doesn't compare to Messi's especially after this World Cup win, which was the only advantage Maradona had for about a decade now. Ronaldo is right up there too but his resume and stats are just short of Messi in nearly every category.
Messi is also going to continue adding to his resume which is the scariest part
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Batis
Registered User
Your post pretty much sums up how I feel about the GOAT debate. Because even if Pelé versus Maradona and Messi versus Cristiano Ronaldo have been the most frequently debated I personally think that it is between Pelé and Messi. And while I do agree that Messi clearly has the strongest case for being the greatest football player of all time I also think that Pelé is the only other player for which a somewhat plausible case can be made.
Because while Cristiano Ronaldo has done extremely well to be able to compete with Messi during this era it is like you said still clear that Messi is ahead of him both when it comes to achievements and stats. Even in the Champions League which is where Ronaldo often has been at his very best the per game stats of Messi are still slightly superior as he has 169 goal contributions (129 goals+40 assists) in 161 games compared to the 183 goal contributions (141 goals+42 assists) in 187 games of Ronaldo.
And when it comes to the Pelé versus Maradona debate I have honestly never thought that it is as close as some people make it out to be. At the turn of the century a number of greatest players of the century lists were made by different sources such as the IFFHS, France Football, World Soccer, Guerin' Sportivo and Placar. All of those five lists had Pelé ranked as the greatest player of the century while Maradona was ranked in second place on four of the lists and in fifth place on one list (IFFHS). I am not saying that these kind of lists should be taken as gospel or anything but in my opinion it still holds some value that five relatively reputable sources were in agreement on that Pelé was the greatest player of the century. Then France Football did continue down that road at the 60th anniversary of the Ballon d'Or in 2016 when they published a reevaluation of the awards presented before 1995. That reevaluation had Pelé winning the award seven times and Maradona winning it two times. Again this should obviously be taken with a grain of salt but it does at least suggest that France Football pretty clearly viewed Pelé as the greater of the two players. The World Cup stats of Pelé with 20 goal contributions (12 goals+8 assists) in 14 games also stands out compared to the 16 goal contributions (8 goals+8 assists) in 21 games of Maradona. Considering that both players built a significant part of their legacies in that competition those stats are in my opinion clearly a point in favour of Pelé even when taking into account that he played on stronger teams than Maradona did.
The only thing that I do not agree with is that you seemingly implied that Pelé not playing in Europe should negatively impact him in this debate. Considering that he was not allowed to leave during his prime years I really do not understand why that is used against him. Especially since Messi either way has the strongest case for being the greatest football player of all time. So that (in my opinion) unfair argument is really not even needed in order to make the claim for Messi as the greatest of all time.
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Is it even possible to become GOAT if you are outside of the superpower countries? For just a random example Norway?
Wee Baby Seamus
Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
The rise of Haaland provides a significant challenge to those who insist that a WC is a must if you're to be considered a top player, and honestly belies how illogical that position is.
As long as Haaland keeps producing at club level like he does and continues to do all he can to make Norway relevant (he's got 21 in 23 for them, so far), then I don't think a lack of international success should be a problem for him as far as legacy is concerned.
I do think that second part is crucial though. Lewandowski doesn't play for a powerhouse internationally (better team than Norway, obviously), but his international performances have always left more to be desired and I think negatively impact his legacy.
IceColdOx
Registered User
I was a huge Ronaldo stan, but his attitude recenly just turned me off. Messi's win sealed if for me.
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These people crack me up. Sexual assault not a deal breaker, but going on Piers Morgan is the last straw
Bon Esprit
Registered User
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Lionel Messi vs Cristiano Ronaldo: Who really is the best?
Jamie Redknapp, Mauricio Pochettino, Juan Sebastian Veron, Clarence Seedorf and others debate who is better between Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo.
www.skysports.com
Who ? JRR ? The defence was keeping the ball I suppose. But then he had a midfield to do the spadework for him. It would not work well now though but he was an artist on the pitch.
Not used in 2002 and 2010 thanks to Diego and 2006 the less said about Pekerman repeating the same mistakes again and again well. That side deserved so much more even minus Zanetti and Samuel.
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