Who do you consider the greatest footballer of all time now ?

[spintheblackcircle]

He turned it down FOR THE TIME BEING and not for any ethical reasons. He still thinks (as I agree with him) he's too good for the Saudi league.

Not to play, to be the spokesperson for Saudi Arabia like Messi. He turned that down.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

this speaks for itself

 

[Walrus26]

Maradona best for me too. i didn’t get to see Diego much in Napoli as tv was coverage was limited back then. What he did at Napoli in by far the hardest league in the world at the time is probably the greatest achievement of any single footballer. I understand if Messi is reguarded as the best by most as he’s unbelievable as well and has won everything now in his career. Maradona icon status was on another level. He was right up there with Ali and Jordan.

Spot on.

Maradona dragging unfashionable Napoli to Serie A glory ahead of the likes of AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juve, Lazio and Roma was astounding. In a league dominated by cynical defending.

It would be like McDavid demanding a trade to Columbus and taking them to win the cup basically by himself.

 

[norrisnick]

Spot on.

Maradona dragging unfashionable Napoli to Serie A glory ahead of the likes of AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juve, Lazio and Roma was astounding. In a league dominated by cynical defending.

It would be like McDavid demanding a trade to Columbus and taking them to win the cup basically by himself.

[Insert sad Gaudreau noises]

 

[bluesfan94]

Who of the social media voters has ever seen Maradona or Pele seen play football? Right nobody! yt "best of" doesn't count.
Pele played before I was born, but Maradona was THE player in the 1980s.

Sure. My point is that to say messi isn’t iconic is to ignore reality.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

People are romantic about the past.. LIVN nailed when he said this will be considered THE ERA.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

People are romantic about the past.. LIVN nailed when he said this will be considered THE ERA.

People don't seem to recognize how crazy it is that Messi has been the best player in the world from the era of Ronaldinho and Henry to the era of Mbappe and Haaland.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

It's still Di Stefano to me.

Would be the obligatory hipster answer, in reality I don't consider it that big a deal. I think Messi is the best of his era, but cross-era comparisons always suffer from a variety of issues.

 

[Live in the Now]

People are romantic about the past.. LIVN nailed when he said this will be considered THE ERA.

This will be considered the era where football changed and molded athleticism together with technique to create super fast play. It will also be considered the era where defensive football no longer guaranteed winning. The game is unrecognizable from the early 90s in a good way. Spain was also an outlier of this era in that they used amazing technique to play defensively in a way previously not considered. But we never really saw that before and all of football made changes to beat those tactics, we will see the effects of those changes for the rest of our lives.

The era after this one will see the previous globalization effects carry over and I think ten years from now way more top players will be from outside South America and Europe.


I would also bet that France wins enough other trophies that we definitely consider this final a huge landmark when we’re old.

 

[gary69]

Spot on.

Maradona dragging unfashionable Napoli to Serie A glory ahead of the likes of AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juve, Lazio and Roma was astounding. In a league dominated by cynical defending.

It would be like McDavid demanding a trade to Columbus and taking them to win the cup basically by himself.

That just isn't true. Maradona only won on his third season, being beaten to the title by the likes of Verona. And only after Platini and other Juve greats were no longer there and before the e.g Milan's Dutch trio had arrived. And after Napoli brought in some help for Maradona. Now, 89/90 title win was more impressive considering the strength of opponents, but it was only by 2 points over Milan, who were fighting for an European title at the same time (unlike Napoli). And by then Maradona certainly wasn't doing it by himself, he had one of the best strikers in the world Careca beside him, and Giordano was a good player too.

Napoli was still a non-factor and failure in the biggest European competition.

And this doesn't even touch his doping use at least during the years of after the first title.

So no, he wasn't doing it by himself.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

This will be considered the era where football changed and molded athleticism together with technique to create super fast play. It will also be considered the era where defensive football no longer guaranteed winning. The game is unrecognizable from the early 90s in a good way. Spain was also an outlier of this era in that they used amazing technique to play defensively in a way previously not considered. But we never really saw that before and all of football made changes to beat those tactics, we will see the effects of those changes for the rest of our lives.

The era after this one will see the previous globalization effects carry over and I think ten years from now way more top players will be from outside South America and Europe.


I would also bet that France wins enough other trophies that we definitely consider this final a huge landmark when we’re old.

Oh yeah, Evilo and I talked about this privately France is showing no signs of slowing down. In fact they may even be better in 4 years. WHich would make Messi defending his title all the sweeter.

 

[Evilo]

That just isn't true. Maradona only won on his third season, being beaten to the title by the likes of Verona. And only after Platini and other Juve greats were no longer there and before the e.g Milan's Dutch trio had arrived. And after Napoli brought in some help for Maradona. Now, 89/90 title win was more impressive condidering the strenght of opponents, but it was only by 2 points over Milan, who were fighting for an European title at the same time (unlike Napoli). And by then Maradona certainly wasn't doing it by himself, he had one of the best strikers in the world Careca beside him, and Giorano was a good player too.

Napoli was still a non-factor and failure in the biggest European compeition.

And this doesn't even touch his doping use at least after the years of the first title.

So no, he wasn't doing it by himself.

I've written this a thousand times here but the legend is strong. Especially by non regulars.
Platini had a better career than Maradona.

 

[luiginb]

Spot on.

Maradona dragging unfashionable Napoli to Serie A glory ahead of the likes of AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juve, Lazio and Roma was astounding. In a league dominated by cynical defending.

It would be like McDavid demanding a trade to Columbus and taking them to win the cup basically by himself.

Difference is Messi never failed that bad at Barcelona to have to transfer to freaking Napoli.

 

[John Pedro]

 

[Karterthadon]

It's still Di Stefano to me.

Would be the obligatory hipster answer, in reality I don't consider it that big a deal. I think Messi is the best of his era, but cross-era comparisons always suffer from a variety of issues.

It basically allows fanboys to unleash their creativity.

As, I said, the absolute best is the LBJTQ community (That would be the Lebron James sexuals) twisting themselves into pretzels to justify why their guy is the GOAT. My favorite is their argument that Jordan's 6-0 NBA final record is tainted because he didn't have to go against Steph's Warriors. It's so ridiculously asinine and dumb that you just shrug and move on.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

People don't seem to recognize how crazy it is that Messi has been the best player in the world from the era of Ronaldinho and Henry to the era of Mbappe and Haaland.

Good point. This is why the comparisons Mbappe to messi are hilarious. Since a 35 year old rinsed Messi is still outshining him.

 

[koyvoo]

People are romantic about the past.. LIVN nailed when he said this will be considered THE ERA.

Until the next era.

One thing I can guarantee is that 15-20-25 years from now, there will be kids telling you that Messi could never play vs the defenders of their current era, couldn’t produce the same way vs the talent of their current era.

I can guarantee you that they will do this, because it’s simply what kids do.

 

[koyvoo]

As far as I’m concerned this might be a measure of skill and talent, not necessarily greatness.

Messi has proven to be the best because along with the ungodly talent, he’s won every personal and team accolade possible, all throughout his career.

It’s still a results based sport, at least until we use a judging system like figure skating and gymnastics to judge winners solely based on skill and technique and nothing else.

Football is not that.

Edit- quoted wrong post. Meant to quote the nutmeg graph.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Until the next era.

One thing I can guarantee is that 15-20-25 years from now, there will be kids telling you that Messi could never play vs the defenders of their current era, couldn’t produce the same way vs the talent of their current era.

I can guarantee you that they will do this, because it’s simply what kids do.

People romanticize the past but they also are much more impressed by what they just saw. It's like nostalgia and recency bias in a permanent tug of war.

 

[les Habs]

Mbappe’s pace is a huge asset, but if anyone thinks his numbers will fall off a cliff when he can’t rely on it as much anymore some day then have a look at his only non-penalty goal in the final. That was an excellent goal and had nothing to do with his pace.

 

[BMann]

Spot on.

Maradona dragging unfashionable Napoli to Serie A glory ahead of the likes of AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juve, Lazio and Roma was astounding. In a league dominated by cynical defending.

It would be like McDavid demanding a trade to Columbus and taking them to win the cup basically by himself.

But for the Camorra Napoli would have had a third scudetto.

Place Maradona into the current game. With people responsible people watching out for him . the carpets , the lack of head hunting defenders. He would destroy teams. I don't think there has been a player as naturally gifted.

That said you take the best players of any era they would still shine. You can't take away their unique qualities of spatial awareness technique and vision. Those of yesteryear would excel today and likewise those today would excel in the past.

The likes of Garrincha and Corbatta the forgotten genius (both plagued by alcoholism) were nimble enough to see and evade the lunges aimed at them most of the time. Leo would have done the same.

Talent is talent.

 

[NotCommitted]

He was this stocky big guy kind of a football equivalent of Lemieux

Peak Ronaldo was an amazing player, guy was a machine, very skilled but also very straight forward. A fat old Ronaldo with health problems was still an amazing goal scorer, loved every single one of his goals in the last world cup he participated in.

 

[NotCommitted]

Until the next era.

One thing I can guarantee is that 15-20-25 years from now, there will be kids telling you that Messi could never play vs the defenders of their current era, couldn’t produce the same way vs the talent of their current era.

I can guarantee you that they will do this, because it’s simply what kids do.

That's how it always goes and that's why comparisons across eras are kinda pointless. But part of the game's evolution is the top players of the era and how they shape the game and part of that is just what kind of body they happen to born into. But the most talented players would still be awesome no matter the era, they might not play the way or the position they actually did, but they'd find a position where they would shine.

Someone like Pele was before my time, I can have no real opinion about him, it's just not the same watching highlights or digging up some stats, he's simply outside personal ratings for me in that "past greats" category.

I'm somewhat older than Messi but not that much, so his generation of players are the last ones that felt like 'peers' to me and not like the upcoming young kids, whereas Maradona for example was so much older than me that he was an early childhood hero. Very different perspectives, for a young kid a player is a mythical figure almost, then as you get older that importance keeps getting less and less until at some point they become kids chasing a ball So it goes both ways, there are the kids and there are the old geezers stuck in the heroes of their youth

It's the memories with all the emotional weight in them. It's very difficult for any player to surpass the players you grew up with, because for most people later in life there's just so much more important things than a ball game, so a soccer player won't have the same kind of impact no matter how good they are.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Not to play, to be the spokesperson for Saudi Arabia like Messi. He turned that down.

Seems Ronnie was holding out for more and will end up playing and being a spokesman for the Saudis.

 

[armani]

Kudos for putting the supremely underrated Zidane on the post, he is the man.

Messi is GOAT for winning everything including that elusive world cup that he inspired his team to win. At the ripe age of 35 which is ancient for soccer legs.

MBappe is the next Pele and is heir apparent to the GOAT status. At 23 he has all the big international trophies, he almost won the Champions League (and will win a few in his career), the individual accolades will pile up over time as well.