Who do the Detroit draft in the first round in 2020 with 3rd overall

[The Zetterberg Era]

I feel like there’s a lot of blind confidence that Stutzle is a center in the NHL. I see the urge to just assign confidence in Steve going back to Mannheim and taking their poster child v2.0 because he’s Steve and it seemingly worked out amazingly the first time.

Just feel like some caution needs to be exercised collectively. He’s played on the wing for Mannheim all year. He played wing for the German U20 team at the WJC. Not saying he can’t convert to center, or the team won’t hope to convert to center, but at this point he’s a winger with a hope of being able to play center. I find it hard to give him too much of a positional boost at this stage. Still like his game a hell of a lot. Still hold him in high regard as a prospect. Just don’t think you can put Stutzle in the same group as Byfield or Lundell in terms of “this guy is a center through and through.”

He reminds me a lot of Marner, I am pretty confident he can drive play from the wing anyway. If our assessment is to run Ras and Veleno down the middle in the 2 and 3 holes having wingers drive the play isn't the end of the world even if it isn't always the preferred method it can work if you have the right wingers and center combinations. I think both Raymond and Stutzle could likely weaponize Rasmussen in the right way and I am encouraged by what I have seen out of Ras as a center in the AHL this year when he has been in.

But I hear you, I see him more as winger currently, I don't think it is impossible, but I find the certainty of a lot of the board that he is already a center a pretty big leap.

 

[Hen Kolland]

He reminds me a lot of Marner, I am pretty confident he can drive play from the wing anyway. If our assessment is to run Ras and Veleno down the middle in the 2 and 3 holes having wingers drive the play isn't the end of the world even if it isn't always the preferred method it can work if you have the right wingers and center combinations. I think both Raymond and Stutzle could likely weaponize Rasmussen in the right way and I am encouraged by what I have seen out of Ras as a center in the AHL this year when he has been in.

But I hear you, I see him more as winger currently, I don't think it is impossible, but I find the certainty of a lot of the board that he is already a center a pretty big leap.

I mean he’s right there among the forwards for me. Removing Lafreniere from the picture, I could sit and debate the next 5 or 6 forwards for a while.

 

[flying v 604]

Stütz meister is our guy if we pick at #3. I live in Sweden and have seen plenty of Raymond and Holtz. My viewings of Stütz are limited, but enough for me to be convinced that he should be our pick at #3. Ray and Holtz are great prospects, but I see Stütz as being the better player in the future.

Based on everything I've seen I think Stutzle will be like the Petey situation in Vancouver. Not in the way they play but just that in a redraft down the road he will be in talks for 1st overall. Personally I think that Laf being so much older and playing in the Q inflates his stats somewhat. Byfield reminds me of high school, when there's that on guy who is bigger then everyone and is better then everyone because of how much bigger and stronger he is, who peaks in high school but ends up being that guy who is 24 and parties with his younger Brother in grade 12. For me at that age I prefer the player who is just average size but is playing against men and killing it, like Petey was.

After benning drafted him nuck fans wanted him fired, burned at the stake and his dog to be killed.

If Byfield at his size had the skill set of Stutzle then sure but I just don't see it. He was terrible against the best of his age with strong teammates, while Stutzle was very good with mostly meh players around him. I hope the wings get him so he stays out of the West.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Based on everything I've seen I think Stutzle will be like the Petey situation in Vancouver. Not in the way they play but just that in a redraft down the road he will be in talks for 1st overall. Personally I think that Laf being so much older and playing in the Q inflates his stats somewhat. Byfield reminds me of high school, when there's that on guy who is bigger then everyone and is better then everyone because of how much bigger and stronger he is, who peaks in high school but ends up being that guy who is 24 and parties with his younger Brother in grade 12. For me at that age I prefer the player who is just average size but is playing against men and killing it, like Petey was.

After benning drafted him nuck fans wanted him fired, burned at the stake and his dog to be killed.

If Byfield at his size had the skill set of Stutzle then sure but I just don't see it. He was terrible against the best of his age with strong teammates, while Stutzle was very good with mostly meh players around him. I hope the wings get him so he stays out of the West.

The German top 6 is going to be mostly first and second round picks. You are also looking at them in drastically different roles. Stutzle was tasked with being an offensive driver with premium ice time, Byfield wasn't put in that role. Don't get too caught up in a two week tournament, especially when they aren't apples to apples comparisons.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

The German top 6 is going to be mostly first and second round picks. You are also looking at them in drastically different roles. Stutzle was tasked with being an offensive driver with premium ice time, Byfield wasn't put in that role. Don't get too caught up in a two week tournament, especially when they aren't apples to apples comparisons.

while I agree, you shouldn’t put too much stock in a two week tournament, byfield was given that role. He Started on the second line. By the end of the tournament he was on the fourth. Stutzle in comparison was the best player for Germany outside of Seider. And you said yourself they had numerous first and second round talents.

full disclosure, I had stutzle in a dead heat with byfield going into the tournament.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Cole Perfetti is my biggest riser right now. He’s really growing on me.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

while I agree, you shouldn’t put too much stock in a two week tournament, byfield was given that role. He Started on the second line. By the end of the tournament he was on the fourth. Stutzle in comparison was the best player for Germany outside of Seider. And you said yourself they had numerous first and second round talents.

full disclosure, I had stutzle in a dead heat with byfield going into the tournament.

This is false at no point was in he in a top 6 center role. Hayton and Veleno played those roles on team Canada. He played out of position in a different role for most of the tournament, for the first time in his entire hockey career that I can remember.

I don't have those two particularly close, I would still gamble on Byfield's package over Lafreniere and the WJC didn't dissuade me from liking him that way. I don't think anybody is passing on Lafreniere in the one spot Wings included but I have been high on Byfield since before major junior and continue to be a massive believer in what he can bring and will eventually develop into as a hockey player. Byfield's physical tools and gifts are just higher for me and I have no doubts about whether he will be a center at the NHL level.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Cole Perfetti is my biggest riser right now. He’s really growing on me.

Smart player, my only hang up is his skating from time to time.

Feel very similar on him that I did on Zadina in his draft year. I like the player, hockey IQ and release. I wonder at times how explosive of an athlete he is and how much there is in the way of gains left. But he should absolutely be in the mix for our pick and we should have a very good read on him with Osgood and Devellano having part ownership up in Saginaw.

 

[Henkka]

Biggest thing for Stutzle is that he is already playing against men and learning from men.

Mannheim also has former San Jose NHL regulars like Ben Smith and Andrew Desjardins mentoring him. Also german, former Buffalo Sabres defensive line center Marcel Goc is at Mannheim, so the knowledge for NHL preparement is already there. It couldn't be any better place, imo, german former NHL center there and 2 former NHL regulars.

That's the perfect place for 17-year old to learn. He will surprise everybody when comes over the pond, just like Seider. Being so ready for everything. Stutzle's AHL year will be his 3rd year in men's league, if he goes there. Totally different starting point than for a guy who comes from Canadian juniors.

 

[Retire91]

I am going to go in the minority and say Drysdale. I am just so exhaustively sick and tired of the dumpster fire at D since Lidstrom retired and I don't want to go through it any more. I wouldn't mind overcompensation in this case. I would just hope he could develop into the kinda D that doesn't hit UFA to make it worth it. I'll let the scouts with much greater knowledge than me decide on Stutzle vs Drysdale (becasue I think Byfield and Lafreniere are 1 and 2 for sure).

For me I like Stutzle's talent and the idea of two of our top players being countrymen, but I think the risk is if he doesn't develop into a center. This team really needs a next level center someone that is going to be even better than Larkin. If Yzerman and his team heavily scouted DEL for Seider then maybe he has a lot of intel on Stutzle.
I like Drysdale's talent and its also a position in need, I feel like Seider and Hronek are becoming a good pairing to work around but we need more and young elite D rarely hit UFA and Detroit isn't a UFA market and UFA is always overpayment. If Yzerman's crew can find an elite D later in the draft then I think the Stutzle pick is the better risk. But if they feel the later D are average at best I like Drysdale.

Let's just hope we get that first overall.

 

[Henkka]

I am going to go in the minority and say Drysdale. I am just so exhaustively sick and tired of the dumpster fire at D since Lidstrom retired and I don't want to go through it any more. I wouldn't mind overcompensation in this case. I would just hope he could develop into the kinda D that doesn't hit UFA to make it worth it.

Next draft will be for defencemen again. Not much forward talent there at our proable pick range. We are gonna pick at Top5-10 range at 2021 and that's full of equal defencemen.

If I would be a scouting director, this thing also would have some effect. 2020 is definitely a forward time, 2021 probably for D. Seider doing so well makes this an easier decision.

 

[Marky9er]

This is just another OHL specific ranking but I think it's relevant here. If he's right, then Byfield could go 3rd.

 

[jkutswings]

BMW and Daimler were also implicated in that same scandal just so you know...

BMW, Daimler and VW charged with collusion over emissions

Second time Daimler has been caught in the last decade.

Anyway, buy American folks!!!

The Wings can draft German hockey players though, I am all for that.

I do probably lean Raymond over Stutzle but that is probably the closest spot on the board for me. IF I drop Askarov out of the picture and don't include goalies just for the purpose of discussion.

I go:

Byfield
Lafreniere
Drysdale
Raymond
Stutzle

At least that is how I look at it right now.

You take Byfield over Lafreniere? Surprising.

 

[Frk It]

Smart player, my only hang up is his skating from time to time.

Feel very similar on him that I did on Zadina in his draft year. I like the player, hockey IQ and release. I wonder at times how explosive of an athlete he is and how much there is in the way of gains left. But he should absolutely be in the mix for our pick and we should have a very good read on him with Osgood and Devellano having part ownership up in Saginaw.

I’ve had similar concerns, which is probably the only thing keeping him out of my top 5. But I know scouts feel his hockey IQ is special, so that may make it not a concern. I go back to Nick Suzki who was a similar size and skater, and he was just so smart it has not been a concern for him so far as a player at any level.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

This is false at no point was in he in a top 6 center role. Hayton and Veleno played those roles on team Canada. He played out of position in a different role for most of the tournament, for the first time in his entire hockey career that I can remember.

I don't have those two particularly close, I would still gamble on Byfield's package over Lafreniere and the WJC didn't dissuade me from liking him that way. I don't think anybody is passing on Lafreniere in the one spot Wings included but I have been high on Byfield since before major junior and continue to be a massive believer in what he can bring and will eventually develop into as a hockey player. Byfield's physical tools and gifts are just higher for me and I have no doubts about whether he will be a center at the NHL level.

he started the tournament on the second line at wing. Don’t tell me it’s “false” lol. No elite level center should struggle to play wing. So I wouldn’t blame his struggles on playing out of position.

I’m sure he’ll be a very good player in the nhl. Some people get WAY too defensive over this stuff. The level of hair splitting we’re doing over guys with this kind of talent is extreme. If I say byfield struggles or isn’t as good, that’s still to say the guy is a top 5 player IN THE f***ING WORLD at his age group. It’s not like I don’t like him or would be upset if we drafted him lol

 

[Retire91]

Next draft will be for defencemen again. Not much forward talent there at our proable pick range. We are gonna pick at Top5-10 range at 2021 and that's full of equal defencemen.

If I would be a scouting director, this thing also would have some effect. 2020 is definitely a forward time, 2021 probably for D. Seider doing so well makes this an easier decision.

I hear you, I also feel uncomfortable going D with a top 3 pick. If its not the next Erik Karlson or Drew Doughty then you spent to precious a resource to bring in what you could have got later in the draft or from UFA. Its just that D usually take longer to develop and usually even more so taken later in the draft. I just feel like there are always elite forwards in the draft and they usually hit the roster faster so D is a heavy consideration. I just don't know if Drysdale warrents a 3rd over all but if the scouting supports it I would be comfortable.

But you are right with Seider looking like he is panning out and Hronek coming into his own maybe we can afford a forward focus. We have some players that are suffering because we don't have enough elite playmakers to pair them with. So a playmaking forwrad that can drive the play and increase possession would be huge. Maybe even more so than bolstering D. Especially if Seider lands soon and we can get out of our own end with some control.

 

[Bench]

The Wings can draft German hockey players though, I am all for that.

If we were going to continue to struggle with this metaphor, I personally would advocate for drafting more guys like Yamamoto.

 

[Frk It]

he started the tournament on the second line at wing. Don’t tell me it’s “false” lol. No elite level center should struggle to play wing. So I wouldn’t blame his struggles on playing out of position.

I’m sure he’ll be a very good player in the nhl. Some people get WAY too defensive over this stuff. The level of hair splitting we’re doing over guys with this kind of talent is extreme. If I say byfield struggles or isn’t as good, that’s still to say the guy is a top 5 player IN THE ****ING WORLD at his age group. It’s not like I don’t like him or would be upset if we drafted him lol

Nathan Mackinnon was a depth player for Canada at the WJC in his draft year too, and he turned out alright.

 

[Retire91]

LOL
Russian wave
Swedish wave
German wave

 

[ArmChairGM89]

Nathan Mackinnon was a depth player for Canada at the WJC in his draft year too, and he turned out alright.

right, and I said it had no impact on how I feel about him. I was just pointing out that what the toad guy said IS correct. And reaffirming the FACTS of that situation.

 

[DetroitRed]

This is just another OHL specific ranking but I think it's relevant here. If he's right, then Byfield could go 3rd.

Last month, there was almost no dissent against Byfield going second over all. Since the latest IIHF U20, we're beginning to hear rumblings. However, he's right: You could include more tournaments to support your argument for Drysdale over Byfield.

I agree with his basic sentiment: It feels like a situation where some get too invested in a player's size. Drysdale isn't so undersized that he wouldn't be workable. Moreover, if Byfield isn't consistently using his size to dominate at lower levels where he's even more oversized than he would be in the NHL, then his size isn't much of a factor to be considering.

We could have a situation in the making where Byfield drops a spot or two.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

right, and I said it had no impact on how I feel about him. I was just pointing out that what the toad guy said IS correct. And reaffirming the FACTS of that situation.

He didn't play in his natural position at all and one period of that against the United States doesn't make that correct. You presented it like they were in similar situations and that is completely false.

MacKinnon being brought up is likewise important because he spent very little of his draft tournament up the lineup. Also an incredibly young player for his draft year as well. Your FACTS are he played one period in a second line role not at his natural position and was demoted by Hunter looking for a spark after his team sputtered out of the gate. Unsurprisingly he demoted the youngest player on his entire team. Just like Lafreniere was a virtual non-factor in his first tournament while being some three months younger than Byfield at the time of comparison, he did get to play his natural position in the depth role at least.

Also my post very much distinguished center which is his role and while you might think switching from center to wing is easy, at this level of competition it isn't and certainly not when it is the first time you have been asked to do it.

 

[DetroitRed]

Double-post glitch or something. Sorry.

 

[Marky9er]

Last month, there was almost no dissent against Byfield going second over all. Since the latest IIHF U20, we're beginning to hear rumblings. However, he's right: You could include more tournaments to support your argument for Drysdale.

I agree with his basic sentiment: It feels like yet another situation where some get too invested in a player's size. Drysdale isn't so undersized that he wouldn't be workable. Moreover, if Byfield isn't consistently using his size to dominate at lower levels where he's even more oversized than he would be in the NHL, then his size isn't much of a factor to be considering.

We could have a situation in the making where Byfield drops a spot or two.

Yeah and it might only be in a situation where a certain team wins 2nd pick. Say NJ gets it, it's much easier to be tempted by Drysdale or even Raymond when you already have Jack Hughes and Nico Hischier.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

He didn't play in his natural position at all and one period of that against the United States doesn't make that correct. You presented it like they were in similar situations and that is completely false.

MacKinnon being brought up is likewise important because he spent very little of his draft tournament up the lineup. Also an incredibly young player for his draft year as well. Your FACTS are he played one period in a second line role not at his natural position and was demoted by Hunter looking for a spark after his team sputtered out of the gate. Unsurprisingly he demoted the youngest player on his entire team. Just like Lafreniere was a virtual non-factor in his first tournament while being some three months younger than Byfield at the time of comparison, he did get to play his natural position in the depth role at least.

Also my post very much distinguished center which is his role and while you might think switching from center to wing is easy, at this level of competition it isn't and certainly not when it is the first time you have been asked to do it.

I just disagree, no big deal. Alexis Lafreniere was 3 months younger than byfield and was a very impactful player. He was a play driver on his line and while he only scored one goal he was visible and a +3 in 5 games.

byfield was mostly invisible and at times looked bad. He was a -3 in 7 games with an assist.

Like I said I don’t use two week tournaments to form opinions on these guys, but if you’re going to bring up lafreniere’s tournament last year and some how compare it to byfield this year then it’s pretty clear your stat watching. Lafreniere has a visible impact in those games.