Who are the Untouchable Sharks?

[Pinkfloyd]

Absolutely, I'd rather get rid of Vlasic if possible. I just don't think that it is lol...and if what you said is true, why not acquire 2 top-6 guys? One for a 1st and one for a 2nd + prospects? Those 2 + Faksa fills all 3 holes up front while Ferraro-Dillon can probably pass as a 2nd pair until Merk is ready. I'd prefer to hold onto Burns too, but that's a big upgrade to the forward group there.

Because they can't afford it and two top six forwards minus Burns leaves a pretty big hole on the defense. There's no way that Ferraro-Dillon pass as a 2nd pair and one of Vlasic or Simek is effective with Karlsson as a top pair. I also don't think many 2nd line players that are available in the team's price range will make up for what is lost without Burns.

 

[DG93]

Because they can't afford it and two top six forwards minus Burns leaves a pretty big hole on the defense. There's no way that Ferraro-Dillon pass as a 2nd pair and one of Vlasic or Simek is effective with Karlsson as a top pair. I also don't think many 2nd line players that are available in the team's price range will make up for what is lost without Burns.

Fair enough lol

 

[matt trick]

How do you figure?

Vlasics buyout would last until the 31-32 season and the jones contract until the 27-28 season. So a full 4 seasons longer.

The cap hits per year would be as follows.

Vlasic.

Year 1 6.42 mil
Year 2 1.40 mil
Year 3 3.65 mil
Year 4 1.40 mil
Year 5 4.15 mil
Year 6 5.15 mil
Year 7-12 1.65 mil

Jones

Year 1 2.87 mil
Year 2 1.87 mil
Year 3 2.37 mil
Year 4 2.87 mil
Year 5-8 1.62 mil

Where you got the 2 mil number i have no idea. But these numbers above are from capfriendly.

Thought it was too good to be true, was using capfriendly but obviously did something wrong o my phone. Damn...

 

[Sharksrule04]

I really think Sharks fans have been spoiled by the good offensive d-men we’ve had the last 10 years and heavily under appreciate Burns. Do you not remember what it was like when our best “offensive” d-men were guys like Doug Bodger, Brad Stuart or Matt Carle? I still think trying to free up cap by getting rid of Burns (who currently is underpaid) might be the illogical suggestion I’ve seen here. The only way it makes sense is if you want a complete rebuild and can move him for a top 10 pick. Otherwise he does not free up enough cap to actually improve this team to offset the offense lost from moving him. Unless of course DW steals a seriously unrealistic trade (Eichel or some other young star) by including him as a piece. Aside from that, no package deal improves this team. You cannot sign a player in FA for 8M who will bring as much value and as we’ve seen from pretty much every DW trade, the team getting best player usually wins the trade, so package deals likely won’t help either.

 

[ktice]

Trading Burns could be what we need. I'd look to get a solid, defense-first D to pair with Karlsson, a decent prospect, and a high pick.

We stabilize Karlsson on the top pairing and give him what he needs to thrive while boosting the 'rebuild on the fly'.

Say Burns agrees to go to Nashville and we get back Mattias Ekholm, who would be a good candidate to rekindle with Karlsson some of the magic he had with Subban.

We'd get another $4.25M in cap for the next two years. If we bridge Labanc at $3M, sign Thornton at $1.5M, Heed at $1M, a back up goalie at $2M, and fill in the rest of the roster with players making the minimum (Noesen, Marleau, 7D, etc), we would have about $10M for two top-9 right wings, which would actually allow us to sign Dadonov and someone else good.

This gets us a few assets for the rebuild on the fly and allows us to ice a team without such glaring holes next year. I'd much prefer to move Vlasic, but Burns is our best bet to get assets back and address the fact that we have too much cap tied up in the defense.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Trading Burns could be what we need. I'd look to get a solid, defense-first D to pair with Karlsson, a decent prospect, and a high pick.

We stabilize Karlsson on the top pairing and give him what he needs to thrive while boosting the 'rebuild on the fly'.

Say Burns agrees to go to Nashville and we get back Mattias Ekholm, who would be a good candidate to rekindle with Karlsson some of the magic he had with Subban.

We'd get another $4.25M in cap for the next two years. If we bridge Labanc at $3M, sign Thornton at $1.5M, Heed at $1M, a back up goalie at $2M, and fill in the rest of the roster with players making the minimum (Noesen, Marleau, 7D, etc), we would have about $10M for two top-9 right wings, which would actually allow us to sign Dadonov and someone else good.

This gets us a few assets for the rebuild on the fly and allows us to ice a team without such glaring holes next year. I'd much prefer to move Vlasic, but Burns is our best bet to get assets back and address the fact that we have too much cap tied up in the defense.

It's highly doubtful trading Burns now could be what we need. We will likely need to at some point but now is likely not the time. It's hard to see the Sharks getting anything for Burns more than a contract, a decent prospect, and a 1st. I don't see how they can get a top pairing d-man plus a decent prospect plus a pick with that contract. I can't see Nashville trading Ekholm for Burns straight up. Doesn't seem like a good move for them. However, even if it's granted the scenario you lay out, at the end, all that is accomplished is moving the hole in the lineup from up front in the top six to the defense because we'd run Vlasic, Ekholm, Ferraro, and Simek on the left with fringe NHL'ers potentially on the right side after Karlsson. I don't think it's a good idea to play any of the four lefties on the right side long term.

There has to be a better answer than that. I think you do what you can to move dead weight in players like Vlasic and Jones before you look to move Burns. Burns is a contributing player at a position they need even with Karlsson. They can't expect to fill Burns' spot in the lineup with what they have internally nor with what's available in either the trade or free agent market.

 

[Gecklund]

Trading Burns could be what we need. I'd look to get a solid, defense-first D to pair with Karlsson, a decent prospect, and a high pick.

We stabilize Karlsson on the top pairing and give him what he needs to thrive while boosting the 'rebuild on the fly'.

Say Burns agrees to go to Nashville and we get back Mattias Ekholm, who would be a good candidate to rekindle with Karlsson some of the magic he had with Subban.

We'd get another $4.25M in cap for the next two years. If we bridge Labanc at $3M, sign Thornton at $1.5M, Heed at $1M, a back up goalie at $2M, and fill in the rest of the roster with players making the minimum (Noesen, Marleau, 7D, etc), we would have about $10M for two top-9 right wings, which would actually allow us to sign Dadonov and someone else good.

This gets us a few assets for the rebuild on the fly and allows us to ice a team without such glaring holes next year. I'd much prefer to move Vlasic, but Burns is our best bet to get assets back and address the fact that we have too much cap tied up in the defense.

If Burns goes to Dallas, Lindell is who I’d target

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If Burns goes to Dallas, Lindell is who I’d target

Lindell would be a solid target but I can't see it happening. I have very low expectations of a return on anyone we put on the block. lol

 

[Gecklund]

Lindell would be a solid target but I can't see it happening. I have very low expectations of a return on anyone we put on the block. lol

I think that’s the best way to look at it but at the same time I can’t see DW moving out these guys for cheap.

 

[Levie]

I think that’s the best way to look at it but at the same time I can’t see DW moving out these guys for cheap.

I could see burns wanting a trade. He didn't seems happy this year like he used to be. He probably never asked for one because he's not that kind of player. Hopefully everyone can adjust to the new team.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think that’s the best way to look at it but at the same time I can’t see DW moving out these guys for cheap.

It's why I sort of expect no one to be moved save for maybe someone like Sorensen. Like I can see the Sharks trading with Tampa again. Something like Sorensen and a 3rd in 2021 or someone we pick in this draft for Killorn whenever the league season is considered over so he has to give them a list of teams unless they ask someone to waive a full NTC. I can see them asking Gourde or Johnson to waive and Killorn will have a list of teams whenever the season is over. I can see the Sharks trading Sorensen and something for one of those guys as a cap dump.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I could see burns wanting a trade. He didn't seems happy this year like he used to be. He probably never asked for one because he's not that kind of player. Hopefully everyone can adjust to the new team.

If anyone currently on this team wants a trade out, they need to just take what they can get and move on. Personally, I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting out but I'd just want it to be done and over with and move forward from there with what you have. The next few years is going to be weird with everything going on.

 

[Levie]

If anyone currently on this team wants a trade out, they need to just take what they can get and move on. Personally, I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting out but I'd just want it to be done and over with and move forward from there with what you have. The next few years is going to be weird with everything going on.

Yep, I wouldn't hold it against any player for wanting out. The leadership group is changing massively from what it used to be. I think we'll be a good team again in a couple years if Karlsson can stay healthy and Merkley can meet expectations (or get traded for a franchise player).

 

[STL Shark]

I could see burns wanting a trade. He didn't seems happy this year like he used to be. He probably never asked for one because he's not that kind of player. Hopefully everyone can adjust to the new team.

I wonder how he would feel about Toronto. They're in need of RHD and based on the capfriendly AGM's are ready to move out Marner's money in a hockey deal.

Burns+Labanc+Sorensen+TB 1st+COL 2nd
for
Marner+Johnnson

No money retained on either side. Would maybe even be willing to turn that COL 2nd into 34th overall or add one or two of the 3rds in 2021 if that got you an elite RW like Marner (the exact thing that we need). Go sign Shattenkirk for $3.5 mil AAV (since he is still getting buyout money from NYR) to play 2nd pairing and Rutta or TVR to play on the 3rd pair until Merkley is ready in 1-2 years. Elliott/Dell to backup Jones ($1.5 mil to a backup) and you have a pretty good roster with $2.06 million in cap space before factoring in 13F and 7D.

Kane-Hertl-Marner
Johnsson-Couture-Meier
Marleau-Thornton-Blichfeld/Gambrell
Gregor-Handemark-Noesen

Ferraro-Karlsson
Vlasic-Shattenkirk
Simek-Rutta

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I wonder how he would feel about Toronto. They're in need of RHD and based on the capfriendly AGM's are ready to move out Marner's money in a hockey deal.

Burns+Labanc+Sorensen+TB 1st+COL 2nd
for
Marner+Johnnson

No money retained on either side. Would maybe even be willing to turn that COL 2nd into 34th overall or add one or two of the 3rds in 2021 if that got you an elite RW like Marner (the exact thing that we need). Go sign Shattenkirk for $3.5 mil AAV (since he is still getting buyout money from NYR) to play 2nd pairing and Rutta or TVR to play on the 3rd pair until Merkley is ready in 1-2 years. Elliott/Dell to backup Jones ($1.5 mil to a backup) and you have a pretty good roster with $2.06 million in cap space before factoring in 13F and 7D.

Kane-Hertl-Marner
Johnsson-Couture-Meier
Marleau-Thornton-Blichfeld/Gambrell
Gregor-Handemark-Noesen

Ferraro-Karlsson
Vlasic-Shattenkirk
Simek-Rutta

It'd be nice to land Marner but I can't see Toronto actually letting him go.

 

[STL Shark]

It'd be nice to land Marner but I can't see Toronto actually letting him go.

Yeah, I tend to agree. Thought he was virtually untouchable until I saw their fans throwing him into a large number of armchair GM mocks over there. That said, I do see why they’re toying with the idea given the money they have tied up in Tavares and Matthews and the need for upgrades on defense. Interesting offseason one way or another.

 

[DG93]

Yeah, I tend to agree. Thought he was virtually untouchable until I saw their fans throwing him into a large number of armchair GM mocks over there. That said, I do see why they’re toying with the idea given the money they have tied up in Tavares and Matthews and the need for upgrades on defense. Interesting offseason one way or another.

I don't think Marner is the one out of those 3 that you move to open up cap space. That's like moving Meier instead of Kane or Couture (not the same level obviously as the Toronto group lol).

 

[CupfortheSharks]

It's why I sort of expect no one to be moved save for maybe someone like Sorensen. Like I can see the Sharks trading with Tampa again. Something like Sorensen and a 3rd in 2021 or someone we pick in this draft for Killorn whenever the league season is considered over so he has to give them a list of teams unless they ask someone to waive a full NTC. I can see them asking Gourde or Johnson to waive and Killorn will have a list of teams whenever the season is over. I can see the Sharks trading Sorensen and something for one of those guys as a cap dump.

I don’t think Tampa will be interested in taking Sorensen back, but Killorn for futures is a very realistic trade possibility.

 

[STL Shark]

I don't think Marner is the one out of those 3 that you move to open up cap space. That's like moving Meier instead of Kane or Couture (not the same level obviously as the Toronto group lol).

Wingers are far more expendable than a pair of elite centers like Tavares and Matthews. Look at the turnstile of wingers that have passed through Pittsburgh that have been elevated by Crosby and Malkin for over a decade.

Nylander will also be kept as he’s $4 mil cheaper and then Kapanen can be thrust up to play on the 2nd line while also being 1/3 of the price of Marner. If they got a guy like Labanc to play on whichever line Kapanen doesn’t in the top 9 while also getting a top pairing RH D-Man, and picks that makes them much better than having just Marner, as good as he is.

 

[DG93]

Wingers are far more expendable than a pair of elite centers like Tavares and Matthews. Look at the turnstile of wingers that have passed through Pittsburgh that have been elevated by Crosby and Malkin for over a decade.

Nylander will also be kept as he’s $4 mil cheaper and then Kapanen can be thrust up to play on the 2nd line while also being 1/3 of the price of Marner. If they got a guy like Labanc to play on whichever line Kapanen doesn’t in the top 9 while also getting a top pairing RH D-Man, and picks that makes them much better than having just Marner, as good as he is.

Not sure that's a good analogy there...Marner is an elite winger and props up Tavares' #s a good bit.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don’t think Tampa will be interested in taking Sorensen back, but Killorn for futures is a very realistic trade possibility.

I think they will be interested in the three mil they'd be saving to sign Sergachev. With a 16 team trade list and a lot of teams with cap issues, that's the type of deal they're going to get.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Not sure that's a good analogy there...Marner is an elite winger and props up Tavares' #s a good bit.

I think it's probably a little bit of both or mores that Tavares props him up. Didn't Marners best numbers come after he got paired with Tavares?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Dallas cannot trade for Burns unless a contract of significance is coming back like Pavelski or Radulov... They have to sign Heiskanen and Dickinson next year, Faksa and Hintz this year.

I can see something like
To DAL: Burns, 2nd (Col)
To SJS: Pavelski and a 1st (late 1st)

Getting a substantial return isn't a necessity from Dallas, it's all about freeing up cap for the future so we can sign players and remain competitive.

I'm sorry man but that is a terrible trade. They let Pavs walk for a reason. No way do I want him back. He's only going to continue to decline. Not to mention the value alone screws the Sharks. They would have to give another 1st at least in this trade because they would be paying the Sharks for their Salary dump (Pavs).

 

[CupfortheSharks]

I think they will be interested in the three mil they'd be saving to sign Sergachev. With a 16 team trade list and a lot of teams with cap issues, that's the type of deal they're going to get.

Tampa will be cutting every corner they can to get under the cap. They will very resistant to taking any salary back and will gladly accept a lower draft pick to avoid any salary coming back. I think we will be one of a few teams interested in Killorn but not the only team. If DW wants to move Sorensen, it will easier to move him to another team in a separate deal.

 

[Harbessix]

If Jesper Fast leaves via FA, maybe the Rangers would be interested in Sorensen for 1 season @ 1.5 mil. Fast made 1.85 mil this season and will definitely get a raise. Sorenson strikes me as a poor mans Jesper Fast.