Which teams are on a complete ReBuild or should be?!

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Vancouver owner refuses to do it and many... not all canuck fans want to rebuild on the fly.

What they are doing reminds me of the oilers

They won't like that comparison

Didn't the Oilers throw all their kids into the 'deep end'....?...Thats what I recall..Losing became 'acceptable' for a good decade in Edmonton.

 

[Riptide]

Ok HFboard's hate Montreal Canadiens

Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Drouin... can put 65-70 points per season.

Lehkonen, Gallagher

Shea Weber is underrated in HFBOard's... he is very good last season... 32 years old, but he can play very well for another 3-4 years IMO. (He can play long time too).

Karl Alzner... underrated signing... every MTL fans gonna like him next season, he is going to be big minute.

Jeff Petry, he is a top 4 defenseman in this league.

David Schlemko and Jordie Benn are going to great together.

And with Carey Price... anything is possible with this goalie.

So stop underrated Montreal Canadiens, they are not in rebuilding mode...

So you have Gally and Drouin who are very good talented young wingers. Patches is Patches - and another winger. I don't think anyone is denying that MTL has a solid group of young skilled wingers. The issue is there's been very very few NHL teams to have playoff without high end centers. Danault and Pleks are not going to cut it, and you have no one in the system to fill that role. Even if Poehling or Ikonen or Danault are able to mature into that role (and I think most will admit that's being generous with all 3), by the time they realistically get there, Weber and Price will be close to (if not already in) their mid 30s and Patches (assuming he stays) will have a new and expensive contract, and he too will be in his early 30s.

Then there's the blueline. Weber is a very very good D. Petry is a top 4D. But even with Alzner, you're still short a legit top 4D and the only guy you have who's under 25 is Morrow and he's not even an NHL regular at this point.

While Price is amazing and important to the success of this team the whole Habs are nothing without Price narrative is getting old, to be honest.

The team is playing solid hockey in front of him, he doesn't need to singlehandedly win them games every second night or stand on his head because we're getting dominated and the only chance to win the game is if he makes 50 saves. He just needs to be solid out there and nothing more.

This I agree with. But lets not confuse that with the idea that the Canadians are building a model team that will be poised to be a true contender in the coming years. They will be on the playoff bubble and won't make it past the 2nd round (if they manage to get that far).

This isn't because I hate the Canadians (I do), but because the players they have - while good (at least some), either aren't good enough, aren't young enough or most importantly, don't play the right position. Maybe Montreal manages to sign Tavares (or someone else) as a FA or manages to fill their glaring center holes by swinging a trade. But until they do, don't act all hurt and offended when people look at that team and see absolutely nothing positive going on there.

 

[LaFan1967]

Detroit AINEC

Detroit Red Wings

24 players , cap hit $78,946,212 (-$3,946,212 ) overcap (Johan Franzen on IR helps for now ).

25th overall 79 points avg age 28.5 , oldest team in the league

too many NMC/NTC especially for thier Dmen ( 5 NMC/NTC and 4 of them over 30 )

years of success invariably leads to downfall

too few assets to trade to help the rebuild
(best value to trade but shouldn't )

Zetterberg, Henrik "C" at 36 (6m for 4 years ) won't fetch much.
Tatar, Tomas at 26 ( 5.3m for 4 years ) would sent the wrong message to
trade after just resigning him.
Larkin, Dylan is too young to trade away .

It's going to be ugly for a few years in "Hockeytown"

 

[habsfan10]

They may not be as tragic as people are making them out to be but the Atlantic hasn't exactly been much of a difficult division since realignment.

They're also the team that relies so heavily on one singular player so much that it seems silly to be defensive when people comment that they're one injury to Price away from being in the basement.

Every team that has a superstar is reliant on 1 player. Take out McDavid from Edmonton and look at the difference. Same with Crosby from Pittsburgh, same with Tarasenko from St. Louis, same with Karlsson from Ottawa etc. The Habs just happen to have a goalie as their superstar, which is why they take more heat for being reliant on 1 player.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Anyone care to expand on why and how the Canucks are failing to rebuild?

Their "rebuild on the fly" motto was said publically a couple of years ago. They understandably caught a lot of flack for that, and apparently still do, despite literally now doing what the critics are still asking for.

They traded burrows and Hansen, for good prospects and a pick. Both of whom returned much more than anyone around here expected they would.

And considering they're already among the worst teams in the standings but end up dropping multiple spots due to this terrible lottery system... What more should they be doing?

Trade the Sedins? Check out the hf proposal threads regarding them. They're essentially worthless because of their age, declining play and mostly their combined cap hits. And lets not even mention their full ntc's and incredible desire to keep their families in Vancouver long term.

So if we can't trade the Sedins.. who else is left? Edler and Tanev? Edler doesn't want to leave (NTC) and is a declining player anyway (not a lot of value).. Tanev has some value, although you wouldn't know it by reading the hf trade board.

So Tanev is literally our only valuable trade chip. Trading him wont make us worse since we're arguably already the worst, so tanking advocates don't have a leg to stand on there... But trading him does mean we're losing a quality mentor to our young players. But even if we did trade him.. we'd maybe get a mid 1st and a decent prospect?

That's pretty much what it boils down to. Not having an additional mid round 1st and another decent prospect is the difference between whether or not the entire franchise is "rebuilding"?

Ok.

 

[ijuka]

What are the moves that Bergevin made lately that scream "All In"?

Weber for Subban, Price extension come to mind. Maybe the Radulov contract? Drouin trade also did make the team older, though might have been a smart move regardless.

Anyway, seen their prospect pool and what they actually have to fall back on?

Anyone care to expand on why and how the Canucks are failing to rebuild?

Their "rebuild on the fly" motto was said publically a couple of years ago. They understandably caught a lot of flack for that, and apparently still do, despite literally now doing what the critics are still asking for.

They traded burrows and Hansen, for good prospects and a pick. Both of whom returned much more than anyone around here expected they would.

And considering they're already among the worst teams in the standings but end up dropping multiple spots due to this terrible lottery system... What more should they be doing?

Trade the Sedins? Check out the hf proposal threads regarding them. They're essentially worthless because of their age, declining play and mostly their combined cap hits. And lets not even mention their full ntc's and incredible desire to keep their families in Vancouver long term.

So if we can't trade the Sedins.. who else is left? Edler and Tanev? Edler doesn't want to leave (NTC) and is a declining player anyway (not a lot of value).. Tanev has some value, although you wouldn't know it by reading the hf trade board.

So Tanev is literally our only valuable trade chip. Trading him wont make us worse since we're arguably already the worst, so tanking advocates don't have a leg to stand on there... But trading him does mean we're losing a quality mentor to our young players. But even if we did trade him.. we'd maybe get a mid 1st and a decent prospect?

That's pretty much what it boils down to. Not having an additional mid round 1st and another decent prospect is the difference between whether or not the entire franchise is "rebuilding"?

Ok.

To be honest, a lot of it has to do with the picks Canucks have(or have not) made. If instead of Virtanen they picked Nylander for instance, and instead of Juolevi they picked Tkachuk(or won a lottery along the way), the general perception might be a lot different.

 

[hagelin1381]

Montreal seems close to being on a rebuild. Canucks and Devils seem to be just starting the rebuild process. Leafs have done a very good job at rebuilding very quickly. The Jets seem to be well stocked ready for a breakout.

Price, Weber still pretty solid.. too much money tied up into those guys to be thinking about a rebuild

 

[Belial]

Weber for Subban, Price extension come to mind. Maybe the Radulov contract? Drouin trade also did make the team older, though might have been a smart move regardless.

Anyway, seen their prospect pool and what they actually have to fall back on?

Why is the Weber for Subban trade an All in move? I understand that Weber is older but it's not like the guy is almost done or something.

Price extension? So he was supposed to let him walk or what? We all knew this massive contract was coming.

Drouin is 22 years old this was a move for the future not an all in move.

Well, when you are a top team in the league year after year and keep drafting late it's quite tough to build a stellar prospect pool.

When he starts throwing first round picks for rentals then we can talk about all in moves.

 

[RC51]

wow, so Montreal is finished as a hockey club. worst gm ever, worst coach ever, worst players ever, worst prospects ever, Molson should just sell off the team for a fire sale, and wait oh yes montreal should leave the Canadian Federation before Quebec get thrown out.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Montreal AINEC. I'll be surprised if they make the playoffs tbh. Just an awful roster, need to sell off pieces and rebuild IMO.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Weber for Subban, Price extension come to mind. Maybe the Radulov contract? Drouin trade also did make the team older, though might have been a smart move regardless.

Anyway, seen their prospect pool and what they actually have to fall back on?



To be honest, a lot of it has to do with the picks Canucks have(or have not) made. If instead of Virtanen they picked Nylander for instance, and instead of Juolevi they picked Tkachuk(or won a lottery along the way), the general perception might be a lot different.

Why is Juolevi a bad pick? He could easily become a top pair dman, which will be more valuable than Tkachuk.

 

[Riptide]

wow, so Montreal is finished as a hockey club. worst gm ever, worst coach ever, worst players ever, worst prospects ever, Molson should just sell off the team for a fire sale, and wait oh yes montreal should leave the Canadian Federation before Quebec get thrown out.

Yes, because that's E X A C T L Y what posters have been saying.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Why is Juolevi a bad pick? He could easily become a top pair dman, which will be more valuable than Tkachuk.

Haven't you heard? Juolevi's a bust because Thachuk was good last year. Or something.
Actually, he had a lackluster regular season, but seemed to redeem himself in the playoffs. But he's perfect fodder for self-loathing Canuck fans and anyone else who wants the team to do poorly. These are the same people who are already down on Pettersson because he didn't dominate some Summer Exhibition tourney.

Anyway...

The Canucks ownership/management have had "rebuild" forced upon them. Finally.

Unfortunately, with little in the way of valuable trading pieces, all there is left to do is hope for good draft lottery luck going forward... and good drafting.

This may take a while.

 

[The Great Weal]

Damn I don't remember it being this bad for Montreal. What are they doing?

At least we have some great upcoming prospects! Oh wait...

 

[OnceWasNot]

Condon played under .900 in that awful stretch. Not really blaming the guy as he was not supposed to be in that chair but that team makes the playoff with a middle-of-the-road starter.

Keep in mind that the 15/16 team also had Markov and Subban playing at a high level, generating much of the team's offense from the backend. With the subtraction of those two players, the 17/18 edition has taken a large step back offensively and in transition, and will be even more reliant on goaltending. I see them as a fringe playoff team even with Price.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Habs are like that woman who is fat,big hair style from 30 years ago, dresses like a 18 year old hottie and thinks she looks good when in reality everyone shudders with repulsion when they look at her.

HABS!

They don't tell
They don't swell
And they go like h***

 

[Rebels57]

Lotto luck helps that a lot. Getting a top-2 pick ahead of the actual worst teams isn't something you should pride yourself on for doing things right though. You lucked out. You didn't get Patrick out of savvy managerial acumen.



Vegas? Re-build?

No but they did get Ghost in the 3rd, Konecny by trading up, Myers as an Undrafted FA, Sanheim by reaching for a late riser, Carter Hart in the 2nd, etc. They also hit a homerun on their highest non-lotto win pick with Provorov.

Patrick has been their only bit of luck.

Hextall building the #1 prospect system in the NHL while still having a veteran core of Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, and Couturier has been very savvy. Now its time for results though.

 

[Rebels57]

Detroit is the most obvious answer here.

Montreal has to figure something out too.

 

[Tripod]

Lotto luck helps that a lot. Getting a top-2 pick ahead of the actual worst teams isn't something you should pride yourself on for doing things right though. You lucked out. You didn't get Patrick out of savvy managerial acumen.

Vegas? Re-build?

Yes the Flyers got lucky getting Patrick. But that had nothing to do what Hextall has been building the last few years which is completely rebuilding the prospect depth all while not tanking.

G: Hart, Sandstrom
D: Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, Friedman, Hogberg, Bernhardt
F: Patrick, Konecny, Lindblom, Rubstov, Vorobyev, Allison, Frost, Ratcliffe, Kase, Laczynski, Bunnaman, Laberge

That is a lot of talent to add over a 4 draft period especially when there are 14 other guys I didn't mention including multiple WJC players. And as I said, he already has 2 1sts for next year and 10 picks overall.

The last 2 years, the Flyers have had the most WJC players in the tournament. Hextall and the scouting staff have clearly been doing a good job. They have not gone scorched earth to build up this prospect base like certain other teams have. That was all I said.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Montreal is long overdue? Maybe you should inform yourself better?

Pacioretty 28
Byron 28
Shaw 26
Gallagher 25
Danault 24
Hudon 23
Galchenyuk 23
Drouin 22
Lehkonen 22
De la Rose 22
McCarron 22
Scherbak 21

Weber turned 32 5 days ago
Benn 30
Schlemko 30
Petry 29
Alzner 28
Jerabek 26
Davidson 25
Morrow 24
Lernout 21
Juulsen 20

Montoya 32
Price 30
Lindgren 23
Fucale 22
McNiven 20

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

To be honest, a lot of it has to do with the picks Canucks have(or have not) made. If instead of Virtanen they picked Nylander for instance, and instead of Juolevi they picked Tkachuk(or won a lottery along the way), the general perception might be a lot different.

That perception would be hypocritical then. Whether or not you like who they've picked doesn't dictate whether or not the franchise as a whole is "rebuilding".

 

[Advanced stats]

Montreal is long overdue? Maybe you should inform yourself better?

Pacioretty 28
Byron 28
Shaw 26
Gallagher 25
Danault 24
Hudon 23
Galchenyuk 23
Drouin 22
Lehkonen 22
De la Rose 22
McCarron 22
Scherbak 21

Weber turned 32 5 days ago
Benn 30
Schlemko 30
Petry 29
Alzner 28
Jerabek 26
Davidson 25
Morrow 24
Lernout 21
Juulsen 20

Montoya 32
Price 30
Lindgren 23
Fucale 22
McNiven 20

Age doesn't matter if your players aren't good.

 

[Halakitlikethat]

Any other division winners 3 of the last 5 years headed or should be rebuilding ? Never change HF boards. The team is being grossly underrated.

Habs will compete for or win the division again next season.

 

[Gargyn]

Not many teams are admittedly rebuilding. But teams like Toronto, Buffalo, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Carolina, Edmonton, Vancouver, Colorado and Arizona are clearly rebuilding, with Edmonton, Toronto and Philadelphia now clearly ready to compete.

Teams that should rebuild because they have no chance of winning with their current core: Boston, Islanders, Capitals, Florida, LA, San Jose and Detroit with Detroit needing Holland to retire asap.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Red Wings

They should have started a few years ago because a new shiny arena will lose its appeal once the loses start piling up.