Which players will compete with Malkin this season for the Art Ross?

[b in vancouver]

Bergeron!

kidding, but it's great to see him still up there at #2 on the leaderboard. #4 PPG.

 

[TaLoN]

There's some guy in EDM that is pretty good... McDavis or McDavidson or something.

Your looking for... McMuffins, Connor McMuffins.

 

[Beau Knows]

The usual suspects: McDavid, Crosby, Kane.

Others like Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, MacKinnon could challenge. The league isn't exactly short on talent right now.

 

[MadLuke]

Well he is tied for the lead in PP points so far this year and is not leading in scoring so maybe this whole PP thing is overblown.

McDavid is scoring at a 134 point season rate right now with that good powerplay more than enough to win the Art Ross and higher than is last 2 year's.

 

[daver]

McDavid is scoring at a 134 point season rate right now with that good powerplay more than enough to win the Art Ross and higher than is last 2 year's.

But not this year though.

 

[MadLuke]

But not this year though.

You think that if McDavid score 134 point he will not win the Art Ross because some of the high scorer will keep their pace for a season long ?

Stamkos-Kucherov were quite ahead at Halloween last year:
NHL.com - Stats

With a 150 point a season pace.

Ended up with a good but more reasonable 86 points.

I doubt 134 point will not be more than enough to win by a good margin this year.

 

[daver]

You think that if McDavid score 134 point he will not win the Art Ross because some of the high scorer will keep their pace for a season long ?

Stamkos-Kucherov were quite ahead at Halloween last year:
NHL.com - Stats

With a 150 point a season pace.

Ended up with a good but more reasonable 86 points.

I doubt 134 point will not be more than enough to win by a good margin this year.

I was pointing out that a 134 point pace, one that he is unlikely to keep, is, for now, good for 3rd place in scoring.

I am just tired of hearing the PP excuse for McDavid.

 

[MadLuke]

I am just tired of hearing the PP excuse for McDavid.

Well he is a main piece of that PP and a reason if it get good or not is part is responsibility.

It is just pointing out is that there is room to growth for him production wise because if he and is team can turn that 14.x% powerplay into a mediocre 20-21% he can easily add 15 points to is last year without playing any better at 5v5 and currently with a good power play is PPG is much higher than the previous 2 year's like predicted by that idea.

I am really unsure what 2 other player's playing on team with better powerplay than him on a very small sample of games are having a better PPG than him this season has to do with the idea that playing on a terrible powerplay last year was hiding is true ceiling for a peak season point production wise.

 

[McFlash97]

I was pointing out that a 134 point pace, one that he is unlikely to keep, is, for now, good for 3rd place in scoring.

I am just tired of hearing the PP excuse for McDavid.

Your agenda is what people are tired of.

 

[daver]

Your agenda is what people are tired of.

By "people" do you mean McDavid fans?

Just saying that so far the "give him a better PP and look out!" theory is not necessarily the case.

 

[McFlash97]

By "people" do you mean McDavid fans?

Just saying that so far the "give him a better PP and look out!" theory is not necessarily the case.

Keep spinning around in circles man .....


McDavid is at a ridiculous 1.64 ppg pace with good PP production, and if he continues this path as well as get his 5 on 5 production at even 80 % of last year ... he will eclipse last years numbers with ease.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

There's some guy in EDM that is pretty good... McDavis or McDavidson or something.

You're thinking of Brandon Davidson. He got traded to NY and signed with the Blackhawks this summer

 

[MadLuke]

By "people" do you mean McDavid fans?

Just saying that so far the "give him a better PP and look out!" theory is not necessarily the case.

Well last season McDavid 84 even strength point was a lot more than everyone else (Giroux at 66 and MacKinnon at 64 being the closest), it does sound true that he is a good powerplay performance away to separate itself and this season start is not disproven that away.

Since the 1992-1993 high scoring season, the players that have scored more than 84 even strength point in a season:

Jaromir Jagr in 95-96 with 95, he had 149 points that season playing with Lemieux.

You a right that it is not necessarily the case, Sedin made 84 EV points during is 112 points season and never got close to that total again in that career, let alone watchout if the power play start clicking again he will reach 120 happening.

But Henrik Sedin shooting percentage when he was on the ice peaked to an abnormal and unsustainable 13.2% that year, when he never went above 10.5% and has a career 9.5%.

McDavid on ice shooting percentage in is career
2015-2016: 10.5%
2016-2017: 10.9%
2017-2018: 10.5%

No indication that is 17-18 performance was some lucky event that he is unlikely to reproduce.

 

[Future GOAT]

Your looking for... McMuffins, Connor McMuffins.

lol Someone actually spelled his name "Conner"...

 

[Stad]

This is Malkin's year if he stays healthy for all 82, which is a big if.

 

[daver]

Well last season McDavid 84 even strength point was a lot more than everyone else (Giroux at 66 and MacKinnon at 64 being the closest), it does sound true that he is a good powerplay performance away to separate itself and this season start is not disproven that away.

Since the 1992-1993 high scoring season, the players that have scored more than 84 even strength point in a season:

Jaromir Jagr in 95-96 with 95, he had 149 points that season playing with Lemieux.

You a right that it is not necessarily the case, Sedin made 84 EV points during is 112 points season and never got close to that total again in that career, let alone watchout if the power play start clicking again he will reach 120 happening.

But Henrik Sedin shooting percentage when he was on the ice peaked to an abnormal and unsustainable 13.2% that year, when he never went above 10.5% and has a career 9.5%.

McDavid on ice shooting percentage in is career
2015-2016: 10.5%
2016-2017: 10.9%
2017-2018: 10.5%

No indication that is 17-18 performance was some lucky event that he is unlikely to reproduce.

Assuming that you would just add PP points to McDavid's 108 points last season if the PP was better (which for some reason assumes that he did not have any influence over said PP's performance) is similar to the assumption that Matthews could put up more points if he has McDavid's icetime. Both are baseless speculations.

Great players produce regardless, and most produce with a variety of icetimes and at different %'s of ES vs. PP.

 

[MadLuke]

Assuming that you would just add PP points to McDavid's 108 points last season if the PP was better (which for some reason assumes that he did not have any influence over said PP's performance) is similar to the assumption that Matthews could put up more points if he has McDavid's icetime. Both are baseless speculations.

Great players produce regardless, and most produce with a variety of icetimes and at different %'s of ES vs. PP.

Why does it not assume that he had any influence over the said PP performance, he is a central key on why the Oilers PP could get better imo.

If the PP was better it is almost certain that everyone with a lot of PP time would get more points, it is useless speculation but not baseless.

 

[daver]

Well last season McDavid 84 even strength point was a lot more than everyone else (Giroux at 66 and MacKinnon at 64 being the closest), it does sound true that he is a good powerplay performance away to separate itself and this season start is not disproven that away.

Besides the fact he would finish be 3rd in scoring if the season ended after 12 games. MacKinnon was closer to McDavid than his 64 points would indicate. He has been at a .93 ES PPG vs. McDavid's 1.01 ES PPG since the start of last season.

The point is let's not pretend that more scoring on the PP would have zero influence on McDavid's ES scoring.

 

[daver]

Why does it not assume that he had any influence over the said PP performance, he is a central key on why the Oilers PP could get better imo.

I am sure a generational offensive talent would have influence over his team's PP performance so why is he given a complete pass on his team's bad performance last year?

 

[MadLuke]

Besides the fact he would finish be 3rd in scoring if the season ended after 12 games. MacKinnon was closer to McDavid than his 64 points would indicate. He has been at a .93 ES PPG vs. McDavid's 1.01 ES PPG since the start of last season.

The point is let's not pretend that more scoring on the PP would have zero influence on McDavid's ES scoring.

If you think the number 1-2 have a good chance to maintain those pace, but I do not think you think that it is the case.

I am not sure why more scoring on the PP would have a significant influence on McDavid ES scoring, and if one that it would be a negative one ? A better power play should mean more ES time, not less.

I have .906 for MacKinnon since the start of last season in regular season, a bit lower with the 0.833 in the playoff:
NHL.com - Stats

78 pts in 86 games versus 94 in 93 games.

That is true that it is not far and that it is possible with the line he has that he could keep up with him this season, anyway none of this has anything to do with my first statement that 120 points was possible with him, because there was easily room for him to get 12-15 more power play point during a season, specially in a year that average 3.42 power play opportunity by game instead of 3.04/2,99/3.11 the last 3 year's and with the league averaging a best since the mid 80s power play %.

 

[MadLuke]

I am sure a generational offensive talent would have influence over his team's PP performance so why is he given a complete pass on his team's bad performance last year?

My comments had nothing to do about him not being responsible, I am sorry with english being a second language for me but I explicitly said at the beginning of the conversation:
Well he is a main piece of that PP and a reason if it get good or not is part is responsibility.

The talk was about prediction how many point an healthy McDavid will do and what is the theoretical ceiling for him this season and I was simply pointing out that he can add 15 points if he and is team get the power play going, is 5v5 scoring has been so good (since Jagr 95-96 best type of good) that he can reach an high numbers of points this year with the league calling more penalty if he continue to do well on it.

 

[daver]

I am not sure why more scoring on the PP would have a significant influence on McDavid ES scoring, and if one that it would be a negative one ? A better power play should mean more ES time, not less.

If more PP points put his team ahead then perhaps he plays a more defensive game later on. I find it amusing that he seems to get a complete pass for his lack of PP points.

 

[daver]

My comments had nothing to do about him not being responsible, I am sorry with english being a second language for me but I explicitly said at the beginning of the conversation:
Well he is a main piece of that PP and a reason if it get good or not is part is responsibility.

The talk was about prediction how many point an healthy McDavid will do and what is the theoretical ceiling for him this season and I was simply pointing out that he can add 15 points if he and is team get the power play going, is 5v5 scoring has been so good (since Jagr 95-96 best type of good) that he can reach an high numbers of points this year with the league calling more penalty if he continue to do well on it.

Fair enough. I just don't think it's as simple as adding PP points to his ES points. There is no precedence for it by previous elite offensive talents. He is the favourite for the Ross and would not be surprised if he wins by a larger margin than last year given his age but I don't think he will have the same ES domination if he gets a half decent amount of PP points.

So far this year, that is the case. He is 1st in PP points/game and only 16th in ES points/game.

 

[AvsFan29]

Not sure why people are disregarding Rantanen, and then listing MacKinnon as a possible Art Ross winner. MacKinnon isn't going to put up those points without Rantanen getting a ton of points. I would list both players and I have no idea which one could do it. Right now I have Malkin and McDavid as strong possibilities. Who knows

 

[MadLuke]

Fair enough. I just don't think it's as simple as adding PP points to his ES points. There is no precedence for it by previous elite offensive talents. He is the favourite for the Ross and would not be surprised if he wins by a larger margin than last year given his age but I don't think he will have the same ES domination if he gets a half decent amount of PP points.

So far this year, that is the case. He is 1st in PP points/game and only 16th in ES points/game.

Well went Crosby went from 102 point is rookie season to 120 point the next season, he did it by scoring 14 more power play points but still scored a little bit more on the even strength.

He is still scoring at .91 EV point by game this year, that still better than everyone else last season. But that a bit 2 different subject, how much point he can end up with this year and by how much he will win the Art Ross (or not win it), lot of people can add to their totals if the higher goal by game is sustained all season long.

3.10 goal by games, that would be the most goal in a season since 1995-1996 a season with 12 - 100 points scorer, and 6- 115 or more point scorer. Even 2005-2006 was lower at 3.08, but both those season were much more power play heavy, helping first units player in the distribution of points.