Which line would be better this season - Matthews/McDavid/Laine or Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin

[Kismet]

Really curious to see if Laine is the next consistent(ish) 50-goal scorer in the league.

As a Jets fan, I'd love it if he were. For now, I wouldn't even come close to asserting that either Matthews or Laine is a "far better player" than Ovechkin - regardless of the number of goals any of them have scored in their last 73 games!

 

[Varan]

I'm sure you'd love to try to make that argument, but people who actually pay attention will note that Ovechkin is accomplishing what he does in entire seasons. He actually has 50 goal seasons, in a full 82 game season. That means, over a lengthy and difficult season that routinely sees players slow down, Ovechkin has proven he can maintain his pace enough to score 50 goals. And that's a feat that few NHL players accomplish, in large part because the 82 game season wears you down.

With Matthews, you can only take it in bits and pieces. Playing 82 games, in bits and pieces, and equaling 50 goals is not remotely the same as playing a full 82 game season, without the breaks, and equaling 50 goals. When the NHL starts awarding goal scoring trophies based on chunks of multiple seasons, then maybe you have an argument.

You might call Matthews a 50-goal scorer if he can put together 82 games where he scores 50 goals, regardless of them being 82 games in a row with breaks inbetween, but no one else will. Certainly no one who doesn't cheer for Toronto.

So, no. We won't find out this season. We may find out the next one, if Matthews can stay healthy enough to play enough games to have a shot at 50 goals. A ridiculously hot start this season would have gone a long way, but he was already slowing down before his injury, so who knows? On the other hand, we already know Ovechkin can do it. Repeatedly.

Excellent post,

but my god the fact that you actually have to state this is ridiculous. How people still don't understand that the length of a season wears down on you regardless of hot starts is beyond me.

 

[authentic]

To be fair, it was a ridiculously hot start. It was dampened a bit by going four games straight with no points prior to his injury. He got off to a pretty hot start last season too. That might be a theme with him. Those hot starts cushion his numbers a bit, when you start making pace arguments, and I'd like to see how he does in a full NHL season(when he isn't a rookie).

I suspect, last season, he would have finished with maybe 77-78 points, and 42-43 goals. That's my feeling. He was just barely above a PPG, with 62 games played, and his goal pace was just shy of 45. With a full season, I'd expect those to dip a bit, but he had already amassed enough numbers that he should have hit 75 points and 40+ goals. I don't think I'm being too conservative here with these numbers.

Those are very, very good numbers, but they fall short of some of the claims we see made by certain individuals about just how good he currently is. Especially when you consider he's on one of the best offensive teams in the league, which is going to help inflate things a bit. Compare that to someone like Kopitar, who not only won the Selke, but put up 92 points last season on an average offensive team in Los Angeles. Which is more impressive? Or how about MacKinnon, and his 97 points in 74(!!) games?

You realize he did almost all of this at even strength right while also playing hurt half the games (he played quite a few games with nagging back issues and a lingering shoulder injury near the end of the season), correct? Fully healthy Matthews would've scored 45+ and over a point per game I'm sure. I can't wait until he gets back and hopefully stays healthy, it's just annoying when certain posters try to tell me my opinion is unwarranted when on a per game basis he has produced similar to Ovechkin since entering the league, and yes he is a better defensive player, although Ovechkin played great there in the playoffs I'll admit. For the record, and not like it matters much, but his drought was 3 games and a period before getting hurt in which he looked fairly dangerous. He will go well over a point per game this season, you can quote me on that.

 

[authentic]

Excellent post,

but my god the fact that you actually have to state this is ridiculous. How people still don't understand that the length of a season wears down on you regardless of hot starts is beyond me.

Matthews would've scored over 40 goals last season though we know that much, he scored 34 in 62 games on the 2nd powerplay unit and averaging 18:08 of total ice time per game!

I know exactly what you guys are getting at but I think you underestimate Matthews if you don't think he's atleast close to Ovechkin as a player already. He has more goals per game since entering the league, the most even strength goals (or maybe McDavid or Ovechkin caught up by now I'll check on that) with all his missed time. He's better at battling for pucks than Ovechkin on the boards, he's better at backchecking, stripping the puck and defensive play in his own end, and I don't just mean he's better because he does it more (because that's his job as a center) I mean he is noticeably more skilled and efficient at it. At this point in his career he's even a better skater and stickhandler, so needless to say the only thing that would prevent me from taking Matthews over Ovechkin from here on out is his health, that's it.

 

[authentic]

Ovi has 45 goals in his last 73 games. Laine has 48.

Yeah that's pretty close, Matthews is a better defensive player than both of them and a better playmaker than Laine. It's not usual for centers to score goals like Matthews, especially with a good two-way game.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Excellent post,

but my god the fact that you actually have to state this is ridiculous. How people still don't understand that the length of a season wears down on you regardless of hot starts is beyond me.

Bingo!
Ovechkin is just in a class of his own. He doesn’t need cherry picked ‘on pace’ arguments to try to support how great he is.

 

[authentic]

As a Jets fan, I'd love it if he were. For now, I wouldn't even come close to asserting that either Matthews or Laine is a "far better player" than Ovechkin - regardless of the number of goals any of them have scored in their last 73 games!

I don't believe anyone else is saying that either, unless that's somehow what you took from my posts.

 

[authentic]

It's about time I put a select few posters here on ignore, I swear they come into every Matthews thread there is and just go on and on about how he's the 100th best player in the league because he hasn't scored 70 points yet.

 

[Plural]

Old guys no doubt.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

It's about time I put a select few posters here on ignore, I swear they come into every Matthews thread there is and just go on and on about how he's the 100th best player in the league because he hasn't scored 70 points yet.

Well they aren't wrong. Matthews has never scored 50 goals or 70pts. Yes he's been "on pace" but until he actually does it he shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[authentic]

Well they aren't wrong. Matthews has never scored 50 goals or 70pts. Yes he's been "on pace" but until he actually does it he shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt.

No but their obsession with Matthews is annoying. Also one of those posters voted Pettersson better than Matthews already after 10 games in the NHL, and the other one thinks Gaudreau is a way better player, so their opinions are repetitive, hypocritical and hard to take seriously. I've never seen two posters so adamant on tearing down another player, they post more about him than their own team.

 

[authentic]

Then why are you even posting, and trying so hard to convince me he's as good, or a better goal scorer than Ovechkin?

Huh? I wasn't talking about you. Westcoastorca was who I quoted... I didn't quote you in it.
I also never said he's a better goal scorer either, I said he's scored at a higher pace since he's been in the league and he's done at a higher pace what Ovechkin has done best which is true. It's the fact that he's so close along with his two way game at center that leads me to believe he's the better player.

Lol, the guy I actually quoted liked your post, just delete the thread you guys are hilarious.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

It's about time I put a select few posters here on ignore, I swear they come into every Matthews thread there is and just go on and on about how he's the 100th best player in the league because he hasn't scored 70 points yet.

Probably for the best if you don’t want to read posts saying you are wrong.
If you’re going to make ridiculous claims on the main board then you can expect to be challenged on them. If that bothers you then by all means use the ignore feature.

 

[Chef de Cuisine]

too hard to pick

went with McDavid

 

[Brian McDavid]

It's about time I put a select few posters here on ignore, I swear they come into every Matthews thread there is and just go on and on about how he's the 100th best player in the league because he hasn't scored 70 points yet.

Sure I want to say anything McDavid is the best. It's not the case here.

I think it's time you ignore yourself.

 

[authentic]

Sure I want to say anything McDavid is the best. It's not the case here.

I think it's time you ignore yourself.

Wtf are you even talking about?

 

[Brian McDavid]

Wtf are you even talking about?

I'd love to agree with you the young guns line is better. But it's not, and it's due to AM and Laine being not as good as OV or Malkin (at least not yet). Try to keep up.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Crosby and McDavid are about a wash. OV and Malkin, however, are clearly superior to their comparables. Give me the group with a combined 4 Conn Smythes, 7 Stanley Cups, 6 Harts, 5 Art Ross trophies, and 9 Richards.

You forgot 7 Ted Lindseys and a Messier Leadership award

 

[authentic]

I'd love to agree with you the young guns line is better. But it's not, and it's due to AM and Laine being not as good as OV or Malkin (at least not yet). Try to keep up.

This is what you just posted.

"Sure I want to say anything McDavid is the best. It's not the case here."

[mod]

I don't really care about what line people take, I would consider taking Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin for 1 more playoff run anyway, but when Matthews has played at a similar pace to Ovechkin since entering the league (over 148 games) and is also the better defensive player and I'm mocked with AINEC comments in favour of Ovechkin from posters who are obsessed with tearing down Matthews it gets annoying. The lines are close obviously, which is why I made the thread. All these threads are for fun and people complain when I have Matthews in them. No one gives a shit that your fanbases will be crap compared to Toronto for years to come, keep your annoying bs in other threads if you don't like it.

 

[SpinningEdge]

Ummm, how about the top players of the past three cup winners.

No team has defeated Washington or Pitt in the playoffs for three straight years now (they’ve only beaten each other).

Pretty easy argument.

 

[Aintboutdatlyfe]

Could easily be the younger trio by the end of this season. Let it play out.

 

[Future GOAT]

Depends. I'd say the McDavid line is the slightly better of the two, but that's if Matthews can manage to not get injured.

Also Malkin and Ovechkin aren't all that great together chemistry wise but things could change.

 

[Rogue Winger]

Including playoffs? Those Cup winning war veterans would be better and they are not even old yet.

Younger guys would already have the better regular season numbers, though.

 

[Volica]

As in dominant, do you mean just nightly? Or are we talking about being dominant and taking me all-the-way?
If we're going for a cup run, hard to go against the old guard.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Including playoffs? Those Cup winning war veterans would be better and they are not even old yet.

Younger guys would already have the better regular season numbers, though.

I doubt that. Just last season the "old" guys all hit 85+pts. Malkin basically matched McDavid, OV tore Laine a new one, Crosby was well ahead of Matthews. I don't see that changing this year either because Laine doesn't have the overall offense of the others and Matthews is made of glass.