Which Flyers Players are overrated?

[JustJim]

Scott Hartnell, Wayne Simmons, Sean Couterier, Kimmo Timmonen, and Claude Giroux are all greatly over rated.....and are all greatly under achieving!

 

[CyborgLindros]

Hartnell is overrated IMO. He really hasn't looked like a 1st line guy aside from the year with Jagr and G. I think a lot of players are seen as they should be..........in 1-3 years. Couts will be a good player I think in hind sight he woulda been better off not being called up unless he got 2nd line minutes when we drafted him.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The idea behind this logic is if you placed another played in that role they'd produce similarly. Power play production is much easier to replace than 5v5 production.

Who are you replacing the production with? The offensive dynamo known as Sean Couturier?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hartnell is overrated IMO. He really hasn't looked like a 1st line guy aside from the year with Jagr and G. I think a lot of players are seen as they should be..........in 1-3 years. Couts will be a good player I think in hind sight he woulda been better off not being called up unless he got 2nd line minutes when we drafted him.

There's also the 2ish years with Briere and Leino.

 

[Laveuglette]

I don't think they're overrated, but underachieving.

And Giroux is one of the bests players in the league, he has shown it in the past and right now he simply doesn't look like himself. By the way he played, you can tell 2012 wasn't a fluke : he was a monster that year, he wasn't lucky or anything, he was great and it had little to do with Jagr. He also was the year before, and even in the 2010 playoffs he has shown a lot of flashes of greatness. There's something wrong with him at the moment and I don't know what it is, but I don't think his talent is overrated at all. I just hope that "something" isn't too serious.

 

[zarley zelepukin]

Voracek. I think he's the only player who's name I haven't seen in this thread in a negative way, and he seems to have escaped the wrath of hfboards so far. Actually he still seems quite popular, but he's been as disappointing as anybody this year imo. He's coming off a good year in a shortened season in which his shooting percentage was well over his career norm, and he's otherwise been a solid but unspectacular contributor in his career.

 

[Tripod]

Voracek. I think he's the only player who's name I haven't seen in this thread in a negative way, and he seems to have escaped the wrath of hfboards so far. Actually he still seems quite popular, but he's been as disappointing as anybody this year imo. He's coming off a good year in a shortened season in which his shooting percentage was well over his career norm, and he's otherwise been a solid but unspectacular contributor in his career.

He is also one of the few forwards that actually has speed so he stands out more in a good way.

 

[PropJoe]

Who are you replacing the production with? The offensive dynamo known as Sean Couturier?

Yeah that would work. Lecavalier, Schenn, and maybe Read. I seriously think a lot of guys could produce on the 1st PP. It's struggling any way, why not shake it up?

 

[Flyotes]

Still need more patience with the youngsters. It is frustrating, I'll admit.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Judging by other fans and some people I know, everyone on the team is overrated lol. Giroux is an average player and our young guys suck.

 

[Embiid]

Anybody catch Bill's blog post this morning? It was one of his raw ones...kind of gives some insight into this topic. The main point of it all is that the composition of the roster is probably making a lot of our players like Simmonds overrated and maybe even redundant. I couldn't help but chuckle at his characterization of Simmonds right now as a

"hyper-kinetic mess; running around the offensive zone, looking in vain to make positive things happen rather than simplifying things with the most direct route to the net or to the puck."

Hartnell tends to do the same when struggling....


I like that he says Holmgren shouldn't be absolved of any blame for all this since he assembled the team and that has been my argument. He is definiitely gone if this season ends in vain again and yeah I would like to see a new coach too if that is the case. Let Hextall bring his guy in.....


As for G..agree with all his points as always...he needs to start waking up and being a catalyst.

Voracek does seem to be in Berube's doghouse so that doesn't bode well for him...

To reiterate, there is no shortage of culprits in the Flyers offensive woes. Support players like Read, Simmonds, Sean Couturier and blueline offensive triggers such as Kimmo Timonen (zero points) and Mark Streit (two assists) can certainly be doing more to help, especially in the absences of the injured Vincent Lecavalier (one goal, three points in five games) and top line left wing Scott Hartnell (zero points). McGinn has been the only one doing his part in that regard, with Brayden Schenn (two goals, five points) being the only other player in the top eight who is somewhat absolved. Even Schenn can be more consistent, however.

Ultimately, the buck has to stop with Claude Giroux and Jakub Voracek -- and the former just a tad more than the latter -- to be the offensive anchors of this club. The team's 1-7-0 record has a lot to do with the lack of production from the top line. It is flat out unacceptable for both players to be without a goal at this point. Likewise, for the team's top two forward playmakers to have just three assists apiece, is very worrisome.

At the end of the day, Giroux needs to be the team's best player. He's the captain, and the one who needs to be able to generate or turn momentum. Yes, he's been unlucky on a couple of shots that hit the post but the truth of the matter is that he's not creating enough scoring chances for himself or his linemates.

While Flyers coach Craig Berube is understandably unhappy with the lack of production from his top line, I think you can read between the lines right now that Jakub Voracek is one player with him he's rather displeased right now.

This is just my own speculation but call it an educated guess: I would not be surprised if number 93 is one of the players who has heard his name barked out by the Chief in team critiques, either in private or in the locker room.

The one absolute truism I've learned about hockey over the years is that the more you know about the game, the more you realize you don't know.

That does not mean that general manager Paul Holmgren deserves a free ride for putting together a roster that failed to make the playoffs last year and is off to the league's worst start this year. Actually, what it means is that the burden is his -- not ours -- to recognize the areas that need improvement and find solutions to bring in better-fitting pieces that fit under the salary cap and do not require trading asset overpayment in the deal.

Realistically, I think that Holmgren and Craig Berube will get the rest of this season to get this team into the playoffs and win a round or two. If the club falls short of that, I would not be surprised if Ron Hextall is the GM come next season and he gets to pick his own coach. It's not that either man is bad at his job.

That's just how it goes in hockey, especially in a win-now market like Philly. When you lose too often, players get traded and decision-makers eventually get changed as well.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill...Pronger-Effect-Giroux-Voracek-Trades/45/54992

 

[FlyersFanz]

Normally I would say Giroux if he was at 100% but I think the wrist is still bugging him. Hartnell and Couts definitely, Couts is brilliant defensively but his offense is not there but that could be due to playing with Talbot. Anybody that says Mason is overrated needs to watch hockey more often, if the Flyers could score would be at the top of the standings right now, Mason can't win games all alone.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

I hate to say it... But should this team have not let Matt Carle walk?

 

[Embiid]

I hate to say it... But should this team have not let Matt Carle walk?

I would rather have him than Mesz or even Grossmann to be honest...

Both of them are on the block and I'm sure the Flyers would prefer to have another PMD to generate some offense/movement from the backend.

Carle is actually doing quite well in Tampa with the new coach and all...

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

yeah i was never Carles biggest supporter while he was here, buuuuuttt

Carle > Coburn
Carle > Grossmann
Carle > Streit
Carle > Gustafsson
Carle > Timonen now

Schenn is the only piece i wouldn't take him over, simply because of Schenn's age and the fact that i think he will still get alot better.

 

[Embiid]

The thing is with Carle is that no matter what he is a big minutes dman and pretty resliant with injuries. In fact he tends to play through them more than most and it might be a reason he has those bad spells of play. Holmgren screwed up royally by just letting him walk and go on the open market to be priced out despite what the haters say. Streit seems to have stemmed some of the loss but jury still out.

The people that want Coburn gone will also learn that it will be not so great of an idea despite the frustration he causes most of us fans. He is another D man that eats lots of minutes. Trying to fill those minutes by a committee of losers like Gervais, Foster and Huskins doesn't work!

The problem is that we have yet to replace Pronger as the anchor of that defense corps and players like Coburn and Carle get put under a larger microscope b/c we want them to take the next step and help fill that big void and they are not those type of D men. They are very good complementary D men. But you know..we tend to do that with our players..ask Carter and Richards who were put on par with Crosby and Malkin..

 

[Beef Invictus]

I hate to say it... But should this team have not let Matt Carle walk?

Based on everything he had shown up until that point, I had no issue letting him go, especially for the money he got. It's nice that he's apparently doing well thus far, but at the time he had shown he couldn't QB a PP or be a serious offensive threat (he was pretty easily defended against) and he struggled to lead a pairing.

So far what we've seen from Streit has been superior to anything Carle gave the team while he was here.

 

[Flyerss]

rip panic button

 

[PhillyFlying]

the whole team is overrated right now but nobody is playing to their potential. i'd rather watch our young guys develop and suffer from a mediocre-to-bad record than to give up on everyone right now based on our current state.

i hesitate to call kimmo overrated. he's just old and losing the "legs."

 

[Ryker]

I hate to say it... But should this team have not let Matt Carle walk?

Carle had his missteps and flaws to his game, so I wasn't particularly concerned when they let him go. But thinking back now, I thought he provided something that we don't get from our current defense corps. It's hard to pinpoint what that is, since he wasn't extremely good at anything, but in terms of offense he seemed to have connected the defense pairing better to our forwards when it came to us going on offense. So now I do kind of wish Holmgren tied him up rather than Coburn. But maybe that's just because I've been really annoyed with the latter last season, as well as this.

 

[dats81]

Carle had his missteps and flaws to his game, so I wasn't particularly concerned when they let him go. But thinking back now, I thought he provided something that we don't get from our current defense corps. It's hard to pinpoint what that is, since he wasn't extremely good at anything, but in terms of offense he seemed to have connected the defense pairing better to our forwards when it came to us going on offense. So now I do kind of wish Holmgren tied him up rather than Coburn. But maybe that's just because I've been really annoyed with the latter last season, as well as this.

Well, if it takes like 3 years for most observers to come to the conclusion that he might have been a little better than average and that he took something with him that is missing now, that "something" must have been a very subtle, almost invisible skillset.
Carle is very turnover prone and his wrist shot might be the weakest in the whole league but he somehow gets the transition game done very well.

 

[dingbathero]

Don't miss Carle, teams needs to play as a team, for a full 60 mins. It really is that simple.

 

[sa cyred]

yeah i was never Carles biggest supporter while he was here, buuuuuttt

Carle > Coburn
Carle > Grossmann
Carle > Streit
Carle > Gustafsson
Carle > Timonen now

Schenn is the only piece i wouldn't take him over, simply because of Schenn's age and the fact that i think he will still get alot better.

Ha funny thing is I think TB fans would disagree with you on some of these. He hasn't been that good on Tampa, especiallyyyyy for the money.

And defensively Carle was atrocious.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah there is no way Carle is better than Streit, who has been just as good if not better at passing, can actually lead a PP, and can actually shoot, while being defensively competent.

 

[MayonnaiseOreo]

simmonds is not overrated, is not easy to score a goal when he play with raffl

I can't take anything you say seriously. I don't know if you're joking or what but every thread has me face-palming when I see these posts. Coburn is a #2 defenseman? Have you seen how bad he sucks? Have you seen Raffl play? He's been everywhere and generating offense. Watch the games.