Which Flyers Players are overrated?

[sobrien]

Ed Snider
Paul Holmgren
Terry Murray
Jeff Reese
Kimmo Timonen
Andrej Meszaros
Luke Schenn at times
Braydon Coburn most of the time
Wayne Simmonds
Matt Read
The line combo of Claude Giroux and Jakub Voracek and their blind, cross ice passes
Scott Hartnell's health
Team Discipline
The Ice Girls
Kris Newbury
Jay Rosehill

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Ed Snider
Paul Holmgren
Terry Murray
Jeff Reese
Kimmo Timonen
Andrej Meszaros
Luke Schenn at times
Braydon Coburn most of the time
Wayne Simmonds
Matt Read
The line combo of Claude Giroux and Jakub Voracek and their blind, cross ice passes
Scott Hartnell's health
Team Discipline
The Ice Girls
Kris Newbury
Jay Rosehill

You forgot to throw Matt Carle in there for good measures.

 

[sobrien]

You forgot to throw Matt Carle in there for good measures.

Good call.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And Matt Walker's hips.

 

[PropJoe]

simmonds is not overrated, is not easy to score a goal when he play with raffl

It's hard to create any type of offense when you're on a line with a guy who has almost no puck possession skills. Simmonds can at times be effective on the forecheck but carrying the puck through the neutral zone is really a struggle for the guy. He's also pretty awful in his own zone. He's a power play specialist and gets extremely overrated because that inflates his production.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It's hard to create any type of offense when you're on a line with a guy who has almost no puck possession skills. Simmonds can at times be effective on the forecheck but carrying the puck through the neutral zone is really a struggle for the guy. He's also pretty awful in his own zone. He's a power play specialist and gets extremely overrated because that inflates his production.

I never understand this logic, production is still production regardless of the situation. It still takes skill to score in those situations.

Giroux scores more than half of his points on the PP ever year as well.

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

Simmonds is easily the most overrated. I don't get the obsession with this guy amongst the fan base. He's an average to below average forward whose numbers are inflated because he gets an opportunity to play on a great PP.

Giroux is overrated to an extent but it's all dependent on who you're asking. Nicklas Grossman looks like nothing but a terrible NHL defenseman to me so if you actually like him as a player I guess I'd consider him overrated. Coburn has actually gotten to the point where he's a bit underrated because frankly he's a pretty good second pairing guy. Definitely not "terrible" as some people have suggested.

Grossmann is better than Coburn and it's not really a debate. He blocks every shot coming his way and plays a simple and for the most part mistake free game. Coburn has more natural talent than him but he's dumb as a doorknob and plays like he was neutered.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I never understand this logic, production is still production regardless of the situation. It still takes skill to score in those situations.

Giroux scores more than half of his points on the PP ever year as well.

Considering that PPs are higher in the cap era than they were in years past, PP specialists have value.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Grossmann is better than Coburn and it's not really a debate. He blocks every shot coming his way and plays a simple and for the most part mistake free game. Coburn has more natural talent than him but he's dumb as a doorknob and plays like he was neutered.

And lobotomized.

 

[Ryker]

These would top my list:
- "probably the best player outside of the NHL that's not playing" (he's still probably my favourite player, aside from Vincenzo, on the team, but every time I think of that statement I just laugh and laugh hard)
- can-supossedly-shut-down-the-best-players-in-the-league-and-he's-not-even-fully-developed-yet!
- Simmonds
- Hartnell
- Coburn
- edit: the defense corps as a whole - in my opinion they're not worth nearly their respective cap hit (i.e. rate), especially when compared to other teams

I want to mention others, but will just stick to these for now, because they're kind of consistently underperforming, whereas with others it ebbs and flows.

 

[PropJoe]

I never understand this logic, production is still production regardless of the situation. It still takes skill to score in those situations.

Giroux scores more than half of his points on the PP ever year as well.

The idea behind this logic is if you placed another played in that role they'd produce similarly. Power play production is much easier to replace than 5v5 production.

 

[PropJoe]

Grossmann is better than Coburn and it's not really a debate. He blocks every shot coming his way and plays a simple and for the most part mistake free game. Coburn has more natural talent than him but he's dumb as a doorknob and plays like he was neutered.

I'm just going to say I disagree and this is what I mean when I say one is overrated and the other is underrated. Coburn does some dumb **** definitely but he's still a more effective player. They play fairly similar defensively and Coburn is much more effective in moving the puck. Grossmann's only puck moving ability is to dump the puck into the neutral zone. Even when he has an easy outlet pass the guy ****s it up. I think Grossmann fans really underrate how important moving the puck out of your own zone is.

 

[Ryker]

I'm just going to say I disagree and this is what I mean when I say one is overrated and the other is underrated. Coburn does some dumb **** definitely but he's still a more effective player. They play fairly similar defensively and Coburn is much more effective in moving the puck. Grossmann's only puck moving ability is to dump the puck into the neutral zone. Even when he has an easy outlet pass the guy ****s it up. I think Grossmann fans really underrate how important moving the puck out of your own zone is.

Yeah, Grossmann was actually next on my list, as well, and he's nowhere near a defensive rock people seem to see him as. I don't like Coburn and would like to see him gone, but if there's one thing that I have to hand to him, it's that goal against Florida. That was a thing of beauty and I don't think many defensemen would have scored in that situation. Kind of goes against how everyone's saying he doesn't have hockey sense.

 

[dats81]

coburn is underrated he is a good #2 he need to play with a true #1

C'mon

In 8GP he has the worst +/- amongst all Flyers defensemen (-5) so far while getting the most TOI. He may be used as a #2 but fails miserably.

 

[Wixztor]

Yeah, Grossmann was actually next on my list, as well, and he's nowhere near a defensive rock people seem to see him as. I don't like Coburn and would like to see him gone, but if there's one thing that I have to hand to him, it's that goal against Florida. That was a thing of beauty and I don't think many defensemen would have scored in that situation. Kind of goes against how everyone's saying he doesn't have hockey sense.

Solid point. Yes, he can put on good hits from time to time, and his constant shot blocking look good from a fan perspective, but he has flaws in his reading of the game both offensively (greatly) and defensively (to some degree). As a stay-at-home D, puck skills would be gravy but I get nervous every time Grossmann has to control the puck at the blue line. I always sense either a coughed up puck or a turnover. Considering his skill set, the cap hit is atrocious. I actually kind of like him on our team, despite the flaws I've described, but his 3,5 million cap hit sort of ruins it for me.

 

[Cuiff]

He scored at a 82 point pace last year without Jagr.

A fact that destroys your fluke argument.

ya...no one wears down over an 82 game season. Smh!!! With your logic, the NHL would have over 15 players with at least 100 points this season....your such a logical individual.!

 

[FlyingPhilly]

They are 22 and 23, give them time. D-man in particular take time. Not to mention Brayden has 5 pts, meaning he's had a hand in 5 or the Flyers total of 11 goals on the season. Even with the team's terrible start he's putting up points.

Unless people expecting 70+ pts out of brayden and top pairing potential from luke i don't think they're overrated.

Similarly Appleyard went into the Couturier pt expectations in great detail. We shouldn't expect much from him in terms of points unless he stops playing the tough minutes.

Yeah, I know. That is why I put those notes in () there while not doing it for Hartnell and Coburn. I think I personally overrated Couturier and what he can be at least offensively. I hope I am wrong, but so far nothing has really developed offensively for him even if his opportunities are limited. I get he plays the toughest minutes on the team, but in my view his offense has regressed so far this year.

As for the Schenns, people talk about how good they can be. I see that, but it is wildly inconsistent. Yes, I know they are young and d-men like Luke take longer to develop. However, I have yet to see more consistency from both of them. I would expect to see progress on their consistency issues, but haven't really. I see the talent they have, especially Brayden, but I see nothing that makes me think either of them have the hockey sense to put it all together consistently for more than a short period of time.

 

[FlyingPhilly]

Anyone ask Ed if maybe he's overrated the front office?

This should be the real topic of the thread.

 

[RoDu]

Simmonds is a third line player with a skillset making him useful screening goalies banging in rebounds with his whole body

 

[sa cyred]

simmonds is not overrated, is not easy to score a goal when he play with raffl

Funny since Raffl has been outplaying him the past two games. Simmonds is killing that line....easily.

But i guess we can use that excuse when he played with Vinny and then Giroux right? (Even if giroux hasnt been the best)

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

Yeah, Grossmann was actually next on my list, as well, and he's nowhere near a defensive rock people seem to see him as. I don't like Coburn and would like to see him gone, but if there's one thing that I have to hand to him, it's that goal against Florida. That was a thing of beauty and I don't think many defensemen would have scored in that situation. Kind of goes against how everyone's saying he doesn't have hockey sense.

Dude, he had a wide open net due to Thomas pulling his groin. It was fluke/lucky goal. ''Thing of beauty''

 

[flyersfan28]

Funny since Raffl has been outplaying him the past two games. Simmonds is killing that line....easily.

But i guess we can use that excuse when he played with Vinny and then Giroux right? (Even if giroux hasnt been the best)

lol no way... why they not recall akeson instead of raffl?

 

[Ryker]

Dude, he had a wide open net due to Thomas pulling his groin. It was fluke/lucky goal. ''Thing of beauty''

Yep, a wide open net, but not many defensemen or even forwards in that position would react the way he did. In a way, it was a fluke, but his reaction added skill to the play. He could've just as easily stopped the puck for a second or so to regroup, and nothing would've materialized. And since you are so keen on wide open nets, I've seen our forwards flub on chances where they had an open net and they shot from much much closer in these first games of the season and missed. So in case you don't realize that, perhaps watch a bit more hockey to see that when opportunities present themselves, you still need skill to actually seize them.

 

[Striiker]

lol no way... why they not recall akeson instead of raffl?

You have zero clue what you're talking about.

 

[blinds]

lol no way... why they not recall akeson instead of raffl?

Raffl's been good, although I think they should call up Akeson as well.

We overrated Simmonds because of how much he scored IMO. He's awful with the puck and nothing special without it. He can set up in front of the net, and that's about all he's good for other than hitting. He can't even forecheck well, he never gets control of the puck. I don't think he's good enough to be on the 2nd line, but he's great on the powerplay and brings some grit and heart to the team.

Still starting to think we should trade him while his value's high. Having him and Hartnell is kind of redundant. I'd trade Hartnell before him but Hartnell has a NMC, right? Injured anyway.

I'd love Simmonds + Coburn/Grossmann for Yak/Eberle. We need a little more speed and a lot more goal scoring on this team.

Edit: I think Coburn has played awful, but I don't think he's quite as bad as the rep he's getting around here lately. He's still a solid minute eater and he's cut down on the bad puck decisions (getting his pocket picked by Crosby happens).

Also, whats with Grossmann shooting all the time? Seems like he keeps getting set up all the time and can't do anything with it other than throw weak wristers. Rebounds are good, but try it with someone with a shot.