Which city should get a team?

[G_FUNK_ERA]

Wisconsin would work. Madison, preferrably.

Quick guide to guaranteed success:
1. Put a team in Wisconsin.
2. Tell the people in Wisconsin that people in Illinois and Minnesota have been badmouthing the WI team.

My first preference, though, is to move the Whale back to Hartford.

The only thing preventing that (in reality) is the Hurricanes have somehow managed to get one of the best arena tax breaks in all of North America.

However, if enough corporate support could be drummed up in Hartford and the Arena could be renovated to NHL standards then the Whalers could return IMHO.

 

[KillerB 's]

The only thing preventing that (in reality) is the Hurricanes have somehow managed to get one of the best arena tax breaks in all of North America.

However, if enough corporate support could be drummed up in Hartford and the Arena could be renovated to NHL standards then the Whalers could return IMHO.

It would cool if the Whalers came back.

 

[dwkdnvr]

Saskatoon has double to the population and only has to sell 1/2 the capacity. I think having a team in Saskatoon would be really cool.

Dude, what part of the word 'football' do you not understand? The share of the TV revenue that each NFL team gets covers the entire player payroll. 70000+ Cheeseheads showing up for games covers the operating expenses and profit. The economics of football and hockey are completely and totally different.

Saskatchewan is probably at least 4th or 5th on a list of potential Canadian locations, and I'm still unconvinced that whoever is at the top of that list would actually be a viable location. (unless Buffalo moved to Hamilton, which would probably work out OK)

 

[G_FUNK_ERA]

It would cool if the Whalers came back.

Totally! Hartford and Winnipeg are two cities that have a solid hardcore hockey fanbase that would live and die with their teams.

I know that Winnipeg built that arena a little on the small side (15,500), however, they did consider future expansion of added seats when they built it. So adding 3,000 seats is not out of the question and would not be all that expensive.

Hello Florida, Anaheim, Washington? If you'd like to make money try getting a hold of Ted Casper (who is worth 1.8 Billion $$) and Mark Chipman (who owns the arena).

Between these two contacts you'd have an owner (Casper) and a good deal on the arena (Chipman)

AS FOR HARTFORD, does the old arena have any expansion capabilities? Is there enough $$ / Corporate support potential?

Any legit info would be appreciated folks!

 

[Hockeycanada*]

Dude, what part of the word 'football' do you not understand? The share of the TV revenue that each NFL team gets covers the entire player payroll. 70000+ Cheeseheads showing up for games covers the operating expenses and profit. The economics of football and hockey are completely and totally different.

Saskatchewan is probably at least 4th or 5th on a list of potential Canadian locations, and I'm still unconvinced that whoever is at the top of that list would actually be a viable location. (unless Buffalo moved to Hamilton, which would probably work out OK)

Dude, I'm not saying it would work, I'm saying it would be interesting.

 

[Brewleaguer]

-Winnipeg
-Hartford
-Quebec City
-Hamilton
-Portland (great success with WHL team)
-Oakland (sure why not - give them one)

in that order. The first 3 I think are absolutely critical. All 3 deserve teams much more than many cities currently with teams.

-Hartford- Back from Carolina
-Quebec City- from Nashville
-Hamilton- From Florida
-Portland (great success with WHL team)- From Atlanta
-Oakland (sure why not - give them one)Nope won't fly with San Jose'

Works for me

 

[polarslam]

Winnipeg and Quebec City should be at the top of any lists. The NHL should except that it will never be more than the number 4 sport in North America (actually number 4 is even pushing it if you want to count College Footbal, Nascar etc etc etc.) and go back to cities where fans will fill the seats.

Milwaukee also seems like a great potential market, it's one of the few U.S hockey hotbeds. How do the Bucks draw there?

Houston also seems like a decent choice. Bug population and Dallas has proved that big Texas cities can draw fans.

Maybe someone on this board from the New England Area can fill me in, but how much as the Hartford region growen the past few years? Could a team in that market work again? Or what about cities in Maine or that area, another one of the American hocket hotbeds?

 

[G_FUNK_ERA]

-Hartford- Back from Carolina
-Quebec City- from Nashville
-Hamilton- From Florida
-Portland (great success with WHL team)- From Atlanta
-Oakland (sure why not - give them one)Nope won't fly with San Jose'

Works for me

Quebec City - needs a new arena. The Colisee is almost 50 years old and is way too small for today's NHL. I'm really hoping they can drum up relevent support to build one...if they did, they'd be a shoe in for a relocated team.

Nashville - Unfortunately they're not going anywhere, as they've got incredible tax breaks on their new arena, and suprisingly the fans seem to be coming back.

Florida - Move em to Winnipeg or Quebec. They can't draw flies, and they have virtually no corporate support. Mark my words, the Panthers will NEVER turn a profit in Florida.

Carolina back to Hartford? It'd almost be like Winnipeg getting another team. Why? Because the fan support was there and in both situations when the teams originally moved you had corrupt owners who didn't know their heads from their a$$e$.

The cities of Hartford and Winnipeg would more than likely be just as successful as the Wild in Minnesota should they get new teams.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Florida - Move em to Winnipeg or Quebec. They can't draw flies, and they have virtually no corporate support. Mark my words, the Panthers will NEVER turn a profit in Florida.

Florida only lost $3.7M last season according to Forbes, but ever turning a profit is out of the question?

 

[G_FUNK_ERA]

Florida only lost $3.7M last season according to Forbes, but ever turning a profit is out of the question?

Florida also had a very low payroll last season, but it does surprise me that they only lost $3.7 M last year. Forbes is a trusted source, so I may have to retract that statement when/if they turn a profit.

 

[Hawker14]

1. winnipeg ... new arena with more revenue streams could make the second time a charm for the jets.

2. hamilton ... the golden horseshoe could probably support three teams. copps doesn't have many boxes but the city would pony up the necessary cash for any reno's.

3. quebec city ... great fanbase that had their championship calibre team ripped away. needs an arena with more revenue streams (ie. luxury suites)

i'm not going to wade into which teams should be relocated however, as the next few years will determine which, if any, will. it is heartwrenching for any fan to have their team move so i certainly don't want to move teams, but if one is moving anyway ... ??

 

[The Frugal Gourmet]

Ok, I can understand the sentimental desire to have a team in Winnipeg, but somebody explain this to me from a business standpoint.

The entire *METROPOLITAN* population of Winnipeg is 700,000 people -- half that of middle-sized North American city Nashville. 30% of that population is under 14 or over 65. Over the past 30 years, Winnipeg has experienced a populaton growth of less than 1/2 a percent. The biggest industry in Winnipeg? Working for the government.

I cannot for the life of me see why anyone without a completely patriotic attachment to Winnipeg would make such an investment.

 

[Hawker14]

I'm hoping my memory serves me correct, as last time I checked the only team to play at the MTS Center is the Manitoba Moose. From what I've seen, the Wheat Kings (WHL) only play their games in Brandon at the Keystone Center.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

the wheaties played 4 regular season home games in winnipeg in '04-'05.

 

[Hawker14]

Ok, I can understand the sentimental desire to have a team in Winnipeg, but somebody explain this to me from a business standpoint.

The entire *METROPOLITAN* population of Winnipeg is 700,000 people -- half that of middle-sized North American city Nashville. 30% of that population is under 14 or over 65. Over the past 30 years, Winnipeg has experienced a populaton growth of less than 1/2 a percent. The biggest industry in Winnipeg? Working for the government.

I cannot for the life of me see why anyone without a completely patriotic attachment to Winnipeg would make such an investment.

has to do with the estimated 150,000-200,000 jets' fans in winnipeg and the fact that hockey is #1.

 

[G_FUNK_ERA]

Ok, I can understand the sentimental desire to have a team in Winnipeg, but somebody explain this to me from a business standpoint.

The entire *METROPOLITAN* population of Winnipeg is 700,000 people -- half that of middle-sized North American city Nashville. 30% of that population is under 14 or over 65. Over the past 30 years, Winnipeg has experienced a populaton growth of less than 1/2 a percent. The biggest industry in Winnipeg? Working for the government.

I cannot for the life of me see why anyone without a completely patriotic attachment to Winnipeg would make such an investment.

Everyone's got their opinions to share, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

I agree that Winnipeg is not the largest city. However consider these facts:

1) They have built a brand new arena (15,500 seats, with capabilities to be expanded by 3,000).

2) The arena is owned by Mark Chipman (who owns the Manitoba Moose of the AHL), and he has stated on the record on many occasions that he would fully support a team relocating to Winnipeg and would offer concessions to an NHL team to make it profitable.

3) Ted Casper resides in Winnipeg and is worth 1.8 Billion Dollars. He owns Canwest Global which is a major Canadian TV Network.

4)Darren Ford, a resident of Winnipeg has created a website that has gauged interest from residents, fans, and business interests (www.jetsowner.com) and all indications are that the city is fully behind this.

5) NHL teams (both Tampa Bay before they won their cup, and Pittsburgh have all admitted to contacting Sam Katz, Mark Chipman and Ted Casper about relocating their franchises to Winnipeg within the last year.)

All and all, there is more than a sentimental attachment IMHO.

 

[The Frugal Gourmet]

Everyone's got their opinions to share, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

I agree that Winnipeg is not the largest city. However consider these facts:

1) They have built a brand new arena (15,500 seats, with capabilities to be expanded by 3,000).

2) The arena is owned by Mark Chipman (who owns the Manitoba Moose of the AHL), and he has stated on the record on many occasions that he would fully support a team relocating to Winnipeg and would offer concessions to an NHL team to make it profitable.

3) Ted Casper resides in Winnipeg and is worth 1.8 Billion Dollars. He owns Canwest Global which is a major Canadian TV Network.

4)Darren Ford, a resident of Winnipeg has created a website that has gauged interest from residents, fans, and business interests (www.jetsowner.com) and all indications are that the city is fully behind this.

5) NHL teams (both Tampa Bay before they won their cup, and Pittsburgh have all admitted to contacting Sam Katz, Mark Chipman and Ted Casper about relocating their franchises to Winnipeg within the last year.)

Ah... I knew it!

 

[polarslam]

has to do with the estimated 150,000-200,000 jets' fans in winnipeg and the fact that hockey is #1.

I have to agree. The NHL is always going to be boarder line fringe sport in the massive North American market. The NHL is never going to make money from TV contracts and national contracts like the NFL or NBA can and will be forever a gate revenue based leauge. With the new CBA teams that put fans in the seats will be the one making money.

 

[txomisc]

The Sharks are from San Jose.

Its only an hour away

 

[Mothra]

Hello Florida, Anaheim, Washington? If you'd like to make money try getting a hold of Ted Casper (who is worth 1.8 Billion $$) and Mark Chipman (who owns the arena).

Not sure what you are getting at with Washington...Leonsis has first dibs when Polin sells his ownership of the Wizards, which includes MCI Center plus a handful of other sports/arena/ticketing sources

 

[GSC2k2*]

Firstly, anyone citing a great fanbase in Quebec really needs to educate themselves as to their attendance figures before they ditched the place. They were drawing horribly. Why on earthe would they do better now?

As for Hamilton, I live there. An NHL team would draw flies in this woebegotten market with a downtown that has long since died. This concept, and this entire thread, is a typical example of the dangers of "conventional wisdom" that infects hockey fans. It was MAYBE the case well over a decade ago that Hamilton was a great market (I doubt that as well) and Copps was MAYBE a state of the art facility (compared to MLG, maybe).

I have gone to Copps. Compared to the other big league arenas I have attended, it is a d-u-m-p. It might have been a decent arena when it was built. That was a long time ago. Today it is a dump. Yet hockey fans cling to decade-old thinking. I have to laugh when people post here about the dinosaurs of the NHL (when discussing rules, for example). There is nothing more dinosaur-like than the average hockey fan, IMO.

As far as the city putting money into Copps, fat chance. Hamilton is broke. Plus, there is very little of a corporate ticket marketplace in Hamilton. Do you actually think that corporate Canada (which really drives revenues, at the end of the day) will traipse down the 403 to go to Copps? That is laughable.

As for the GTA or horseshoe market, if it was a good hockey market, other minor league teams would have fluorished. They have not. The horseshoe is a Leafs market. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing will change that.

 

[Hawker14]

Everyone's got their opinions to share, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

I agree that Winnipeg is not the largest city. However consider these facts:

1) They have built a brand new arena (15,500 seats, with capabilities to be expanded by 3,000).

2) The arena is owned by Mark Chipman (who owns the Manitoba Moose of the AHL), and he has stated on the record on many occasions that he would fully support a team relocating to Winnipeg and would offer concessions to an NHL team to make it profitable.

3) Ted Casper resides in Winnipeg and is worth 1.8 Billion Dollars. He owns Canwest Global which is a major Canadian TV Network.

4)Darren Ford, a resident of Winnipeg has created a website that has gauged interest from residents, fans, and business interests (www.jetsowner.com) and all indications are that the city is fully behind this.

5) NHL teams (both Tampa Bay before they won their cup, and Pittsburgh have all admitted to contacting Sam Katz, Mark Chipman and Ted Casper about relocating their franchises to Winnipeg within the last year.)

All and all, there is more than a sentimental attachment IMHO.

1) the mts centre seats 15,015 and it has very limited expansion possibilities.

3) it's david asper who's family owns canwest global, the sun newspaper chain, national post, etc.

5) winnipeg actually contacted pittsburgh (deputy mayor dan vandal).

 

[G_FUNK_ERA]

Not sure what you are getting at with Washington...Leonsis has first dibs when Polin sells his ownership of the Wizards, which includes MCI Center plus a handful of other sports/arena/ticketing sources

The only thing I was getting at is that Washington, according to Leonsis, is still due to lose money, even with a payrol of $25 million. It's not out of the question that Leonsis could sell the team to anyone willing to step up with a legitimate offer.

Bill Laurie (owner of the Blues) has his team up for sale, and it's not even guaranteed they will stay in St. Louis even with the newer arena.

Anything can happen.

 

[The Frugal Gourmet]

I have to agree. The NHL is always going to be boarder line fringe sport in the massive North American market. The NHL is never going to make money from TV contracts and national contracts like the NFL or NBA can and will be forever a gate revenue based leauge. With the new CBA teams that put fans in the seats will be the one making money.

Ok, so more than 1/4 of the population of Winnipeg considers themselves hockey fans (I'm skeptical, but whatever). 10% of those fans must be rabid enough to buy tickets just to keep the team afloat. The television market is too small to add much revenue. The city is not growing, there are no cities nearby who will drawn in (the closest cities are Edmonton and Calgary) and even Dixie cities have that in the U.S., the arena is small, and the economy is not that strong. I still think it will take a very courageous owner to make it happen.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Firstly, anyone citing a great fanbase in Quebec really needs to educate themselves as to their attendance figures before they ditched the place. They were drawing horribly. Why on earthe would they do better now?

The Nordiques did have better than average attendance 9 years out of 16.

 

[ProctorSilex]

Bring back the Jets