Which city should get a team?

[Pens75]

Downtown populations don't mean anything when evaluating a market.

Take St. Louis for example. The city limits are not that big and the population figure provided above is just under 350k. But in reality, the whole city has a population of 2.7 million (also census data). That makes the city bigger than any two of Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa - combined. It's also larger than Vancouver, which is a little over 2 million. Although, St. Louis has two other pro teams so the Blues revenue rivals that of the Flames.

Pittsburgh is the same way. The city is small. Population is around 200,000.

But it is a much larger populated area, the "Greater Pittsburgh" area.

Roughly 2.5 million people live in Pittsburgh.

 

[djzeus]

Orlando, so those north of the 49th parallel can have something else to ***** about.

 

[Gnashville]

Orlando, so those north of the 49th parallel can have something else to ***** about.

So true

 

[Hawker14]

if orlando sold out their building like columbus only idiots would complain.

if only nashville and carolina had that kind of attendance, eh ?

 

[Saint Teemu]

Orlando, so those north of the 49th parallel can have something else to ***** about.

[OT]We view hockey as OUR sport - forgive us if we lose our sense of humour sometimes when we perceive our game as being treated shabbily (fans in Boston, Detroit and NY can be considered honourary Canadians in this regard). We also have a tendency to direct our ire inappropriately - e.g. at hockey fans in the Sun Belt. We dig that you dig hockey - we just wish there were more of you there.[/OT]

I'd like to see a team in Winnipeg. I don't doubt that it's a rabid hockey market and I don't doubt that it could pull in 15,000 fans a game. Regardless, Winnipeg is still a SMALL market (despite the argument on how to conduct a census). I get the sense that a LOT of things have to go just right, all at the same time and for a long time, for a team to work here. But I'd still like to see it happen.

I don't think the Powers-That-Be will allow a team in Hamilton.

I'm not convinced Quebec City really misses the Nordiques.

I couldn't tell you where to put a team in the States, but I do have a sense that hockey should recognize it's (largely) regional appeal. I hear the arguments about growing the game, but I starting from scratch everywhere you go is pretty exhausting. I'd be more inclined to go back to the well in Hartford.

Otherwise, I'm intrigued by Indianapolis and Milwaukee.

I thought Cleveland might be a good spot, but someone disabused me of that notion in an earlier post I read.

I'm not sold on Seattle or Portland.

 

[djzeus]

As soon as I posted Orlando I could feel the collective Canadian wrath start to build, so before I see 55 posts telling me how much bigger the Winnipeg/Hamilton/Quebec City metropolitan areas are (suburbs don't count is hilarious), or how American cities below Philly dont "deserve" hockey teams, let me clarify: I'm just kidding!

But seriously, I think New Orleans is perfect.

 

[Prince Mercury]

No, actually your point was that the CAA's 19,040-seat capacity was "the league average," when clearly it's not.

Oh, and there are nine arenas (as of 2004) that were below 18,000. But keep tryin'...

Buddy, my point was that East Rutherford has a population of 8,000. But yeah, you keep trying too...

But seriously, I think New Orleans is perfect.

Weren't they deep in the running for the last batch of expansion?

That said they now have the Hornets so I would doubt New Orleans would make a run at an NHL franchise.

 

[djzeus]

Weren't they deep in the running for the last batch of expansion?

That said they now have the Hornets so I would doubt New Orleans would make a run at an NHL franchise.

Don't care, I just want another excuse to hit the Big Easy.

 

[NJD Jester]

Buddy, my point was that East Rutherford has a population of 8,000. But yeah, you keep trying too...

Right, and just like the "Average Stadium Capacity" theory you spewed, someone was nice enough to point out that East Rutherford, although home to the Devils' stadium, can in no way be compared to a host city for a hockey team. So no matter what point you were making, you were wrong.

 

[Prince Mercury]

So no matter what point you were making, you were wrong.

Damn, and how I love making points. Can't blame a buddy for trying.

 

[Puckclektr]

[OT]We view hockey as OUR sport - forgive us if we lose our sense of humour sometimes when we perceive our game as being treated shabbily (fans in Boston, Detroit and NY can be considered honourary Canadians in this regard). We also have a tendency to direct our ire inappropriately - e.g. at hockey fans in the Sun Belt. We dig that you dig hockey - we just wish there were more of you there.[/OT]

I'd like to see a team in Winnipeg. I don't doubt that it's a rabid hockey market and I don't doubt that it could pull in 15,000 fans a game. Regardless, Winnipeg is still a SMALL market (despite the argument on how to conduct a census). I get the sense that a LOT of things have to go just right, all at the same time and for a long time, for a team to work here. But I'd still like to see it happen.

I don't think the Powers-That-Be will allow a team in Hamilton.

I'm not convinced Quebec City really misses the Nordiques.

I couldn't tell you where to put a team in the States, but I do have a sense that hockey should recognize it's (largely) regional appeal. I hear the arguments about growing the game, but I starting from scratch everywhere you go is pretty exhausting. I'd be more inclined to go back to the well in Hartford.

Otherwise, I'm intrigued by Indianapolis and Milwaukee.

I thought Cleveland might be a good spot, but someone disabused me of that notion in an earlier post I read.

I'm not sold on Seattle or Portland.

You think the powers that be won't allow a team in Hamilton, but you think the Hawks will allow a team in Milwaukee?

 

[Gnashville]

if only nashville and carolina had that kind of attendance, eh ?

Or Winnipeg eh
12994 13620 13594 12681 12816 13106 12931 12931 13550 13297 13013 11316

 

[Saint Teemu]

You think the powers that be won't allow a team in Hamilton, but you think the Hawks will allow a team in Milwaukee?

I hadn't realized that Chicago and Milwaukee were so close (don't know much 'bout geography), but after consulting Google maps, it's not nearly as close as Hamilton/Toronto (and further than Hamilton/Buffalo).

Do you think that Chicago would stymie a bid from Milwaukee?

Assuming Chicago isn't bothered by the bid, is Milwaukee a decent hockey town/market? Is Indy?

 

[canucks666]

36 team league?

Montréal-Toronto-Ottawa-Boston-Québec-Buffalo

Philadelphia-Pittsburgh-New Jersey-Rangers-Islanders-Hartford

Nashville-Washington-Tampa Bay-Florida-Carolina-Atlanta

Detroit-Chicago-St. Louis-Columbus-Minnesota-Milwaukee

Dallas-Phoenix-Houston-Anaheim-Los Angeles-San Jose

Edmonton-Calgary-Colorado-Vancouver-Winnipeg-Portland

 

[Patman]

Manchester, New Hampshire (really I need to research this more but they have great fans, im pretty sure put up good attendance #'s and had the ahl all-star game. if my memory is correct they have a nice arena. maybe someone can tell me how wronge I am)

It would never fly in Manchester. They just spent lots of money on a 9,000 seat faciiltiy within the last 5 years or so, its way too close to Boston (I believe Hartford is further away) too many Boston Bruins fans and I don't believe Manchester is any larger than Worcester in terms of population. We're talking about a town that would have Nashua, NH/Lowell, MA as the midway point between teams. Additionally, I believe the cultures are too similar and there isn't enough of a disconnect between NH and MA in terms of sports to make it work... the disconnect that say exists in CT between MA and and NY.

Manchester, NH: 110,000 population... small metro area.
Nashua, NH (20? miles south of Manch): 86,000... small metro area that could include Lowell.
Lowell, MA (another 5 miles, 30 mi. NE of Boston): 105,000... small metro area that could include Nashua and maybe Lawrence. Easily part of Boston's market.
Worcester, MA (45 miles west of Boston, 40 miles NE of Hartford): 175,000... no suburbs of real size... ease of travel and state politcal splitting puts Fitchburg/Leominster (~80K) as a draw for minor league teams in Worcester.
Not to mention that all of these cities have similar focuses on New England sports (B's, Celts, Sox, Pats). The only New England city of size without this focus is... Hartford.

 

[Diamond Dan 5150]

Well not a single city should get a team. The NHL should not expand for at least 10 years. Build up interest through the minors, like baseball.

 

[Hasbro]

I hadn't realized that Chicago and Milwaukee were so close (don't know much 'bout geography), but after consulting Google maps, it's not nearly as close as Hamilton/Toronto (and further than Hamilton/Buffalo).

Do you think that Chicago would stymie a bid from Milwaukee?

Assuming Chicago isn't bothered by the bid, is Milwaukee a decent hockey town/market? Is Indy?

Wirtz? Operate out of greed?! NO!

Indy is a respectable market, I could think of better, I could think of worse. J-M Liles is the first player raised in Indy to make the NHL. I knows some guys from the area that are into hockey.

 

[Prince Mercury]

I would doubt Indianapolis could support an NHL team considering the size of the city and the fact that they have the Pacers (and the Colts, for that matter).

If hockey was a summer sport, sure, but I should think the city's spread a little thin in winter as it is.

 

[AdmiralPred]

You can go into any city and try and cultivate fans, depending on the ownership and the relationship they develope with the local market it just may work, I think Nashville and Columbus are prime examples. Please don't throw attendance figures at me, I will defend Nashville and their deserving a team until the end.

Having spent time in cities like Indy, and Louisville, and living near Milwaukee I have to put the kibosh on all 3. Milwaukee tried during the first expansion in the early 90's and would have beaten out Florida or Tampa, I forget which, but the expansion fee of $50 mil + kicking money down to Wirtz did not justify having a team. Had they gone through with it, I am sure that NHL team would have bolted by now. Milwaukee and Indy have good hockey fans, but I don't beleive they could cultivate enough NHL fans. Indy is a great sports city and has very strong college-level fan bases all over the state for obvious reasons, and once you get north of Milwaukee, its all Packers all year. Don't even get me started on Louisville and hockey, the Panthers were a disaster. It is all UL or UK.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

I am not sure if this has been posted but this is an article regarding a new arena in Kansas City:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/12416876.htm