Where's MacT?

Took a pill in Sbisa

2showToffoliIwascool
Apr 23, 2004
16,368
7,159
Australia
I imagine him just having the same role he had before being named GM, 'senior advisor'.

Just there, hanging around management, another voice when they all talk about potential trades and signings.
 
Dec 3, 2005
3,639
448
Vancouver BC
I imagine him just having the same role he had before being named GM, 'senior advisor'.

Just there, hanging around management, another voice when they all talk about potential trades and signings.

Basically he's there still because he's best buds with Daryl. If this is the case, I'm legit worried since it means Chiarelli doesn't have full control of who he can hire and let go. The best case scenario is the one where he's just a figurehead and doesn't have say in anything but is kept around and treated like a mascot or something because Katz.
 

McDeathbyCheerios*

Guest
Basically he's there still because he's best buds with Daryl. If this is the case, I'm legit worried since it means Chiarelli doesn't have full control of who he can hire and let go. The best case scenario is the one where he's just a figurehead and doesn't have say in anything but is kept around and treated like a mascot or something because Katz.
Like I have said before. He is under contract so either they make him do work or kick him out and pay him anyways.
 

McDeathbyCheerios*

Guest
Most teams pick option B.

How often do you see a team demote their GM?
They gave him the option to stay if he wanted. I'm sure other teams have done that but they leave cause they will find work elsewhere. MacT wouldn't.
 

OilerTyler

Disgruntled
Jul 5, 2009
17,006
8,827
Edmonton
They gave him the option to stay if he wanted. I'm sure other teams have done that but they leave cause they will find work elsewhere. MacT wouldn't.

Which begs the question - why is a guy who wouldn't be able to find a job anywhere else given a role where he is "#2 in all aspects" behind our general manager?

It's pretty pathetic.
 
Dec 3, 2005
3,639
448
Vancouver BC
Like I have said before. He is under contract so either they make him do work or kick him out and pay him anyways.

Yeah, I hear you, but it's not that he's still there that's surprising, it's his position.

That said, maybe he can shine as an advisor now that the pressure of being GM is off of him. Maybe he's being groomed to be an actual GM one day in a background role with Chia and Nicholson as his mentors. I'd wish that would be the scenario but his modesty and willingness to learn from the guys who took his job makes me skeptical. That and he's been in the business so long that he probably thinks he knows everything already. If it were me, I'd buy him out and send him packing, he's already proven he's a fraud. This is a guy whose stench you want to be completely airing out from the club...yet he lingers on like a stale fart.
 

harpoon

Registered User
Dec 23, 2005
14,306
11,639
I am aware of all this. MacT did it while being a guest panelist on TSN big deal. I'm not discounting the benefits of MBA programs or Law degrees. They should just not be used in a way to say oh MacT should have been a great GM he has a Queens EMBA
I see you have an old join date, but I'm not sure how often you read this board if you think there were many people saying the bolded.
Its kind of strange to be this worried about a claim that so few people are making, don't you think?

Big *** deal he had no experience, having an MBA does not make you a good hockey GM.
This part of your argument I really have trouble following. For any job employers probably look for a mix of experience and education. It would be silly to ignore either component.

MacT did a poor job. It does not follow however that he is therefore poorly educated or unqualified. Plenty of successful, well-educated, eminently qualified people fail in business everyday. And others, with lesser credentials, may succeed beyond any prediction.

Posters on this site (contrary to what you seem to think) usually mock MacT's MBA, or belittle the fact that its an "e" degree. I think Dorian already did a good job of explaining why those folks are mistaken. But what is really puzzling is those same posters will do as you just did above and discount MacT's real NHL experience as well.

One cannot just keep recycling the same management "talent" around the league. At some point new people have to break into management in this league. Are all of those people expected to have perfect resumes? Like do they need degrees from the right schools and need to have worked their way up through an NHL organization? In a perfect world maybe. But we have seen that the NHL in general tends to place more significance on hiring people who have experience within the league in some capacity than they do on degrees of any kind. Look at Shanahan for an example of a guy who has held a lot of important positions with some pretty thin qualifications. Two months after retiring from the NHL he became the NHL's Vice President of Hockey and Business Development. Sounds like the kind of job and advanced degree might be a prerequisite for, no? Not in the NHL. After accomplishing not much of anything for the NHL he skips straight to president and alternate governor of the Leafs.

My point is that the NHL values success in the game at least as much as they value degrees. By the metrics used in the NHL, MacT was very qualified for the position of GM. He had a long and illustrious playing career during which he was known to be a tenacious and determined opponent. He had coaching experience at multiple levels. He presumably has many connections within the game. He also had a business education.

Its too bad he failed. And I'm not upset that he was replaced. But it does bother me when people make out like its some kind of miracle he was ever employed in the first place. The man was qualified. Just because people don't like the result its no reason to dismiss everything he had accomplished in his life that led to him getting the chance to be an NHL GM. And yes, that includes his MBA.


I don't know, I believe that is very, very deceiving as Dubnyk played a huge part in bailing them out game after game.
I'll just go ahead and call bs here. I watch all the games. I can recall maybe a half dozen instances where I said to myself after a game, "damn, thank God we had Dubnyk in net tonight". The way Dubnyk is playing right now can't be denied. The transformation from "almost out of the league" to "Vezina candidate" in less than a calender year may be the most amazing thing I have ever seen in pro hockey.

That said we are not rewriting the Dubnyk legend in Edmonton. He was a freaking disaster here. Terrible fundamentals, mentally weak, entitled and complacent.
 

CM4

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
461
278
Edmonton
From Jim Matheson article

Chiarelli said Howson, who has done extensive scouting this season for the upcoming draft, is still the VP of hockey ops.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
86,361
35,204
From Jim Matheson article

Chiarelli said Howson, who has done extensive scouting this season for the upcoming draft, is still the VP of hockey ops.

So who is higher up in the food chain? MacT or Howson? Personally I prefer Howson to MacT.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
86,361
35,204
It's called a joke :shakehead

However, what is idiotic is keeping KLowe and MacT around. When people continually fail at their job, they need to be let go.

Agreed, my only worry is if Chia is the President and GM in name only and Lowe and MacT are still calling the shots. As long as Chia is the head honcho on hockey ops then I don't care who he has here. MacT can give him insight into the players, scouting and coaching and then hopefully Chia can form his own opinions on these parts of the org because if MacT was so great then there'd be no need for Chia's services in the first place.
 

CM4

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
461
278
Edmonton
I see you have an old join date, but I'm not sure how often you read this board if you think there were many people saying the bolded.
Its kind of strange to be this worried about a claim that so few people are making, don't you think?

This part of your argument I really have trouble following. For any job employers probably look for a mix of experience and education. It would be silly to ignore either component.

MacT did a poor job. It does not follow however that he is therefore poorly educated or unqualified. Plenty of successful, well-educated, eminently qualified people fail in business everyday. And others, with lesser credentials, may succeed beyond any prediction.

Posters on this site (contrary to what you seem to think) usually mock MacT's MBA, or belittle the fact that its an "e" degree. I think Dorian already did a good job of explaining why those folks are mistaken. But what is really puzzling is those same posters will do as you just did above and discount MacT's real NHL experience as well.

One cannot just keep recycling the same management "talent" around the league. At some point new people have to break into management in this league. Are all of those people expected to have perfect resumes? Like do they need degrees from the right schools and need to have worked their way up through an NHL organization? In a perfect world maybe. But we have seen that the NHL in general tends to place more significance on hiring people who have experience within the league in some capacity than they do on degrees of any kind. Look at Shanahan for an example of a guy who has held a lot of important positions with some pretty thin qualifications. Two months after retiring from the NHL he became the NHL's Vice President of Hockey and Business Development. Sounds like the kind of job and advanced degree might be a prerequisite for, no? Not in the NHL. After accomplishing not much of anything for the NHL he skips straight to president and alternate governor of the Leafs.

My point is that the NHL values success in the game at least as much as they value degrees. By the metrics used in the NHL, MacT was very qualified for the position of GM. He had a long and illustrious playing career during which he was known to be a tenacious and determined opponent. He had coaching experience at multiple levels. He presumably has many connections within the game. He also had a business education.

Its too bad he failed. And I'm not upset that he was replaced. But it does bother me when people make out like its some kind of miracle he was ever employed in the first place. The man was qualified. Just because people don't like the result its no reason to dismiss everything he had accomplished in his life that led to him getting the chance to be an NHL GM. And yes, that includes his MBA.


I'll just go ahead and call bs here. I watch all the games. I can recall maybe a half dozen instances where I said to myself after a game, "damn, thank God we had Dubnyk in net tonight". The way Dubnyk is playing right now can't be denied. The transformation from "almost out of the league" to "Vezina candidate" in less than a calender year may be the most amazing thing I have ever seen in pro hockey.

That said we are not rewriting the Dubnyk legend in Edmonton. He was a freaking disaster here. Terrible fundamentals, mentally weak, entitled and complacent.

MacT's experience is being a coach, the jump from coaching to managment is rarely successful, very few have gone on to do a good job.

What you fail to realize is hows the Oilers went about the the hiring and the circumstances. You dont just go handing the keys to a team mid rebuild to a old coach with no managing experience, and on top of that not do a proper interview process. Thats what fans are pissed about.

And im sorry but at this point, know one even needs to argue about the obc anymore. There record says everything. 9 years of crap and thats not including before the stanley cup run when those teams were nothing to be proud of.

The blind love for these guys is painfully sad. 15 years proves they are terrible at what they do.
 

CM4

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
461
278
Edmonton
Agreed, my only worry is if Chia is the President and GM in name only and Lowe and MacT are still calling the shots. As long as Chia is the head honcho on hockey ops then I don't care who he has here. MacT can give him insight into the players, scouting and coaching and then hopefully Chia can form his own opinions on these parts of the org because if MacT was so great then there'd be no need for Chia's services in the first place.

Hes not just going to ignore what MacT has to say, regardless of what people hope for. MacT will have influence on PC's decisions along with Scott Howson and the rest of the 20 managers. Thats like you hanging out with someone who is a bad influence, eventually they will impact your decisions.
 

McDeathbyCheerios*

Guest
Nicholson and Chia. I trust. If they believe MacT and Lowe are fit in their new lesser roles who the hell are we to criticize. Stop all these conspiracy theories of how they will still be running the show behind the scenes and Chia is just there for face value.
 

CM4

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
461
278
Edmonton
Nicholson and Chia. I trust. If they believe MacT and Lowe are fit in their new lesser roles who the hell are we to criticize. Stop all these conspiracy theories of how they will still be running the show behind the scenes and Chia is just there for face value.

People are worried by there influence on managment decisions.
 

McDeathbyCheerios*

Guest
People are worried by there influence on managment decisions.
Chia and Nicholson are smarter then that.

For all we know MacT is really good with paperwork and the non decision making GM work so having him as an assistant gm might be really good.

We do not know what happens in the meetings, the offices and behind closed doors. So let's wait and see what we get for an on ice product before we cry foul.
 

Dorian2

Define that balance
Jul 17, 2009
12,255
2,251
Edmonton
I have a couple degrees including a law degree and will be doing an MBA shortly (so I think I can speak on the subject).

Great you learned how to work hard during university and it has made you work hard in your new job. Having these degrees does not make someone 'more' qualified to run a hockey team. I don't know why that is so offensive to you...
Being a good hockey GM comes from having experience not having degrees regardless of where they're from.

Well...just a correction for you. It was my job for 15 years. Not really new. But it did give me the chance to accrue experience through that time which wasn't related to anything I studied for directly.

And that's where our difference's end for that subject. I wasn't and am not happy with MacT being GM because of the lack of experience, which explaining so would have made that post way too long.

I took exception to the fact that you said they are useless degrees. They aren't, in the entire scope of things. They're building blocks to get you to where you want to go.

I also have a degree in the the School of Hard Knocks. :D

@Harpoon..I concur with your post.
 
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McDeathbyCheerios*

Guest
If anything MacTs degree and education would make him a great assistant gm.
 

harpoon

Registered User
Dec 23, 2005
14,306
11,639
In general, just because i quoted what you said, doesnt mean its all directed towards you.
Yeah, cause in general I see MacT and Lowe getting a lot of blind love on this board. :sarcasm:
 

Tarus

Registered User
Jun 22, 2006
9,449
4,599
Edmonton
From Jim Matheson article

Chiarelli said Howson, who has done extensive scouting this season for the upcoming draft, is still the VP of hockey ops.

Ok, I get Mact being kept around as one of Katz's cronies, but Howson?

Starting to get a distinct vibe like I did when Buchburger/Smith survived 4 coaching changes. Inflicting past problems on new bosses as if that will cure all.
 

McDeathbyCheerios*

Guest
Ok, I get Mact being kept around as one of Katz's cronies, but Howson?

Starting to get a distinct vibe like I did when Buchburger/Smith survived 4 coaching changes. Inflicting past problems on new bosses as if that will cure all.
Just because he is still there doesn't mean he will be there for the whole season. He probably wants to see him finish till the draft and make a decision based on how it goes.
 

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