Where would you rather finish at the end of the regular season?

[DAChampion]

The Leafs tanked for years.... it doesn't mean anything if you trade those picks away. Look at the talent JFJ sent packing.

Indeed, the Habs would be a lot closer to contending if they hadn't squandered Sergachev in a "win-now" move.

 

[Edgy]

I am not sure where I stand on this, but so if we win tonight will all of you who are hoping for a bottom 5 pick over a playoff spot be upset? Or will you be pleased despite yourself. That's where I'm going with this.

None of us is happy when we lose but we're tired of bubble playoffs and never having a chance to win the cup. So would we rather lose and lose our shit while it happens in order to get a high draft pick and add another Kotka to the lineup? Absolutely.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Indeed, the Habs would be a lot closer to contending if they hadn't squandered Sergachev in a "win-now" player.

It's about direction too.

I'm fine with doing that IF you're going to follow it up with other moves. If you really think that Drouin is going to help you win now... great. Go ahead and do that. But don't make that trade while letting Radulov and Markov jump ship. Don't do it if you're not also going to add other players. And don't do it if you're going to take Drouin (a natural winger) and try to force him into being your number one center.

As I said above, it's not just one thing. Even if you draft high you can still f*** things up (like we did with Galchenyuk.) Top picks are a prime ingredient in most cup winning teams. It makes sense to go after them (or trade for them) but it doesn't mean squat if you put them in a position to fail. And we've done a great job of that over the past five or six years. Therrien and SL were the twin towers of fail. It's just awful what we did to this team.

In retrospect the Drouin for Sergachev trade is looking lopsided no matter what. So that was a bad trade regardless. But I'm okay with the spirit of that move IF it's followed up on. Unfortunately we trade for him and then let two vets leave... it's just stupid.

 

[Canadienna]

None of us is happy when we lose but we're tired of bubble playoffs and never having a chance to win the cup. So would we rather lose and lose our **** while it happens in order to get a high draft pick and add another Kotka to the lineup? Absolutely.

I get it, and agree with you I would love another Kotka or high end young kid in the lineup.

Don't you agree however, that if we finish bottom 5 we have a long way to go to become great. Whereas if we finish in the playoffs it means we don't need to add as much to get to contender status.

Then throw in all the stuff about winning cultures and teaching kids to hate losing and it's a tough call.

 

[yianik]

I get it, and agree with you I would love another Kotka or high end young kid in the lineup.

Don't you agree however, that if we finish bottom 5 we have a long way to go to become great. Whereas if we finish in the playoffs it means we don't need to add as much to get to contender status.

Then throw in all the stuff about winning cultures and teaching kids to hate losing and it's a tough call.

Not necessarily the case. If we finish bottom 5 but have some top prospect talent on the way and top developing talent on the team them maybe we are a contender in a couple or few years.

We could finish in the play offs and without enough top talent coming in, we could just be stuck in mediocrity.

EDIT: So let's say we finish bottom five and get a great prospect. Lets say we trade Petry at the TDL and get a grade A prospect for D and a top 20 1st round pick. We could be adding a couple young top end talents out of all that.

 

[Canadienna]

Also just want to add that finishing bottom 5 likely means another poor season from Price and the young guns in the lineup not getting on the board as much as we'd like. Whereas a young team with say 92 points is going to get some wins on the backs of it's youth. - Valuable experience

 

[ZUKI]

Things are going well by now for the Habs , but our team is the 2nd youngest team of the NHL ; at some point , the team will hit a wall . My hope is that the team play this entertaining hockey , but loose a lot of games in overtime or by only ne goal . Another top 5-7 draft choice would be good

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Ok after thinking about our current status it is pretty obvious we cannot reach the same level of firepower offensively than the likes of Pittsburgh, Toronto and Washington. We don't have the elite tier type of player in our roster and these elite player are almost impossible to get unless you are lucky. I also believe that finishing last this year and possibly next year would not really change that. I think we hockey fans often overrate top draft prospect there are more chances to get a pretty good player but the teams that are trending up or at the top like Washington, Winnipeg, Nashville got amazing players with late 1st and 2nd round picks and Edmonton for example while McDavid is saving their asses recently have failed to get value with later picks. The key to success is to get the next Carlson, Josi, Kuznetsov, Pastrnak, MacAvoy, Connor, etc. and stop getting obsessed with the top talent of the draft.

It is hard but it's achievable. We need good drafting, good development and trade that maximise the value of our assets (ala Pacioretty).

We have to model our team with other well balanced teams like Boston, Nashville, Las Vegas.

We need to improve on our depth and internally replace our players with more talent.

We should look at trading players like Petry, Shaw, Plekanec this year or next to get more depth and top prospect.

 

[Adriatic]

Habs definitely need another strong draft with high picks but I just don't see it happening. The team is better than last year and Price won't be worse so that will easily get us 7-8 more wins. Even though I would another top 5 pick I just don't see it happening with way they are playing and the effort they are showing. The best of both worlds would be seeing their play progress and then somehow making a trade to acquire another 1st round pick.

 

[jaffy27]

This poll shouldn’t even be close

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Ok after thinking about our current status it is pretty obvious we cannot reach the same level of firepower offensively than the likes of Pittsburgh, Toronto and Washington. We don't have the elite tier type of player in our roster and these elite player are almost impossible to get unless you are lucky. I also believe that finishing last this year and possibly next year would not really change that. I think we hockey fans often overrate top draft prospect there are more chances to get a pretty good player but the teams that are trending up or at the top like Washington, Winnipeg, Nashville got amazing players with late 1st and 2nd round picks and Edmonton for example while McDavid is saving their asses recently have failed to get value with later picks. The key to success is to get the next Carlson, Josi, Kuznetsov, Pastrnak, MacAvoy, Connor, etc. and stop getting obsessed with the top talent of the draft.

It is hard but it's achievable. We need good drafting, good development and trade that maximise the value of our assets (ala Pacioretty).

We have to model our team with other well balanced teams like Boston, Nashville, Las Vegas.

We need to improve on our depth and internally replace our players with more talent.

We should look at trading players like Petry, Shaw, Plekanec this year or next to get more depth and top prospect.

Nobody is giving you a top prospect for those guys.

 

[Canadienna]

So let's say we finish bottom five and get a great prospect. Lets say we trade Petry at the TDL and get a grade A prospect for D and a top 20 1st round pick. We could be adding a couple young top end talents out of all that.

This is a whole lot of unhatched chickens.

Also Petry is great but not getting us an A defensive prospect and a top 20 first.

 

[Lebowski]

Ok after thinking about our current status it is pretty obvious we cannot reach the same level of firepower offensively than the likes of Pittsburgh, Toronto and Washington. We don't have the elite tier type of player in our roster and these elite player are almost impossible to get unless you are lucky. I also believe that finishing last this year and possibly next year would not really change that. I think we hockey fans often overrate top draft prospect there are more chances to get a pretty good player but the teams that are trending up or at the top like Washington, Winnipeg, Nashville got amazing players with late 1st and 2nd round picks and Edmonton for example while McDavid is saving their asses recently have failed to get value with later picks. The key to success is to get the next Carlson, Josi, Kuznetsov, Pastrnak, MacAvoy, Connor, etc. and stop getting obsessed with the top talent of the draft.

It is hard but it's achievable. We need good drafting, good development and trade that maximise the value of our assets (ala Pacioretty).

We have to model our team with other well balanced teams like Boston, Nashville, Las Vegas.

We need to improve on our depth and internally replace our players with more talent.

We should look at trading players like Petry, Shaw, Plekanec this year or next to get more depth and top prospect.

The thing about drafting high is that you can get prime assets that can contribute quickly.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the slow "building through the draft" approach of a team like Nashville. But you have to hit multiple homeruns in later rounds in quick succession in order to assemble a core that can grow and win together. The odds of that happening aren't very high.

We were headed in that sort of direction back in 2012. We hit homeruns in 2007 that gave us a solid core to build around even though we didn't have much in terms of top picks. But we needed to add more to that core. Galchenyuk and Gallagher were two guys that got added to that core but it wasn't enough. The drafting void from 2008 to 2011 is what killed that particular rebuild, in my opinion. It was still salvageable assuming we tanked in 2013/2014 and got ourselves some other high-end talent, but it wasn't ideal.

There's always gems in later rounds that end up being superstars. There's also very few of them and there's 31 teams speaking every draft. You can't expect to be that one lucky team consistently. These depth picks are important to sustain an already successful rebuild, like Pittsburgh finding a guy like Guentzel that can support their core guys or Nashville finding an Arvidsson. But you can't really expect to build a winner with nothing but low picks. Bergevin even says it himself, you can't find those "big talented centers when you draft 25 and under every year". We at least can agree on that. Time to show you can gun for those guys when they're available. It's a center heavy draft this year, it should be our top priority to secure one of the top guys to put to bed once and for all the center dilemma.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

1st overall

Would be great to draft there.

 

[jaffy27]

I get it, and agree with you I would love another Kotka or high end young kid in the lineup.

Don't you agree however, that if we finish bottom 5 we have a long way to go to become great. Whereas if we finish in the playoffs it means we don't need to add as much to get to contender status.

Then throw in all the stuff about winning cultures and teaching kids to hate losing and it's a tough call.

You’re suggesting that this year we can go from bottom 4 to a playoff birth.....fine, but don’t you agree that with a more experienced Kotka and a 6’3 RHC Cozens, and Brook, and Poehling, we’d have just as much of a chance if not a better chance in making the playoffs??

Difference is we are better built for success with a Cozens or Dach

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Nobody is giving you a top prospect for those guys.

I disagree many teams got good prospect for similar type of player.

I mean look at Pacioretty, Duchene/Turris, Erat, Gomez, Griffin Reinhart trades they got in return some very good top prospects. Not saying that it is easy but it's not out of question.

The pressure to win is very for some teams and they would be willing to sacrifice their future for instant help.

 

[Habs Icing]

This is definitely true.

But I would argue that the vast majority of cup winning teams have a top pick who's leading the way for them. Nothing is a guarantee but there is a roadmap to be followed. And again, top picks aren't the only way. You can trade for prospects and that works just fine too. It's just a lot better to have both.

Define a top pick.

Obviously your definition is different from mine. For me Price is a top pick (5) but we scream, rant and yell when he leads the way with outstanding goaltending.

Kotkaniemi was a top pick (3). Drouin was a top pick (3). So far I'm counting 3. Two more than the template you laid down.

Or instead of top pick do you mean an elite player? If that's what you mean then scratch Drouin but add Weber and maybe add Suzuki and Brook.

But if you really mean a top pick then to get that top pick you gotta unload Weber, Price, Tatar, Bryon, Gallagher, Petry and maybe even Niemi and then you'll get your top pick. So you're going to trade away 6 excellent hockey players to get a top pick and some lower picks and/or prospects that might or might not turn out to be as good as the players you unloaded. I don't see the winning percentages in that strategy.

But hey like Montreal said what we think doesn't affect anything.

 

[DAChampion]

I disagree many teams got good prospect for similar type of player.

I mean look at Pacioretty, Duchene/Turris, Erat, Gomez, Griffin Reinhart trades they got in return some very good top prospects.

The pressure to win is very for some teams and they would be willing to sacrifice their future for instant help.

Petry, Shaw, and Plekeanec are likely a step down.

But sure, if Bergevin can pull off an Erat for Forsberg trade, then all hail Bergevin.

 

[DAChampion]

For me Price is a top pick (5) but we scream, rant and yell when he leads the way with outstanding goaltending.

People were actually very happy with Price back when he was elite.

 

[Habs Icing]

People were actually very happy with Price back when he was elite.

Yea and bytching and whining that he had to carry the team.

 

[Lebowski]

Petry, Shaw, and Plekeanec are likely a step down.

But sure, if Bergevin can pull off an Erat for Forsberg trade, then all hail Bergevin.

I think the Pacioretty trade could be that for us, to some degree.

I haven't been a fan of Pacioretty's game for a while. Time will tell whether he's been on a clear downward trajectory or if he was in need of a change of scenery.

In any case, Tatar is great, and Suzuki was an amazing catch. The 2nd round pick is just gravy at this point.

 

[yianik]

This is a whole lot of unhatched chickens.

Also Petry is great but not getting us an A defensive prospect and a top 20 first.

That's a rebuild. There is risk.

Could be wrong about Petry but he is a 3D with almost 3 years remaining and 3 post seasons. I think those expectations though are reasonable. If that's not what's offered, dont trade him.

 

[Canadienna]

You’re suggesting that this year we can go from bottom 4 to a playoff birth.....fine, but don’t you agree that with a more experienced Kotka and a 6’3 RHC Cozens, and Brook, and Poehling, we’d have just as much of a chance if not a better chance in making the playoffs??

Difference is we are better built for success with a Cozens or Dach

I'm not suggesting what will happen but what should happen. What will bring the Habs closer to their goal.

If this team is a 60 point team then Price, Kotka, Gally, Mete etc just weren't good enough (which is what you are saying). So we add Cozens or Dach to this team.

If they are a 90 point team then they don't add one of those guys but the guys we do have are better players than they are on the 60 point team.

Again, I'm not 100%, but I don't think it's black and white.

 

[Lebowski]

Yea and bytching and whining that he had to carry the team.

... Because it was clear Price alone wouldn't take us to a cup on his own.

You know, Bergevin has been here for what, 7 drafts, and we've made literally zero progress compared to where we were when he first took over.

We wouldn't be asking for a rebuild 7 years down the line had Bergevin had any sort of plan, 7 years ago.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

Bottom-5, easily.

Molson, if he's shortsighted, probably don't want that to happen, but if he understands how good teams are built, won't mind 2-3 years in the basement. He will reap rewards after that. (unless a major shitstorm happens, like MB thinking that trading prospects and picks could help our 'rebuild')

Price will still be there in 2021, Weber, Drouin, Domi, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Kotkaniemi, Juulsen, Mete... add Brook, Poehling, Ylonen, Primeau, Olofsson, Fleury, and a couple others to that, plus the ones we'll draft in '19 and '20...

Of course, no one can ask the players of a team to lose, they won't agree anyway. But add 'plugs' like MB did this season (be it purposely to 'tank' or because he really think he reinforced the team, whatever) while waiting for the kids to develop properly, it should happen naturally.