Where would you rather finish at the end of the regular season?

[Lebowski]

I'm not suggesting what will happen but what should happen. What will bring the Habs closer to their goal.

If this team is a 60 point team then Price, Kotka, Gally, Mete etc just weren't good enough (which is what you are saying). So we add Cozens or Dach to this team.

If they are a 90 point team then they don't add one of those guys but the guys we do have are better players than they are on the 60 point team.

Again, I'm not 100%, but I don't think it's black and white.

I'd be keeping Kotka away from this team for this season no matter what, so there goes that issue.

 

[jaffy27]

I'm not suggesting what will happen but what should happen. What will bring the Habs closer to their goal.

If this team is a 60 point team then Price, Kotka, Gally, Mete etc just weren't good enough (which is what you are saying). So we add Cozens or Dach to this team.

If they are a 90 point team then they don't add one of those guys but the guys we do have are better players than they are on the 60 point team.

Again, I'm not 100%, but I don't think it's black and white.

60 points is a little low. I see them getting 75pts-80pts

Thing is it’s hard to have your offence firing on all cylinders when you’re missing centres and puck movers.....add Poehling, Cozens and a more experienced Kotkaniemi and if they can package a few wingers for a top LHD, it changes the dynamic of this team.

Add UFA’s cause we all know we have tons of cap space and we are looking at something that’s potentially special.

 

[Habs Icing]

Indeed, the Habs would be a lot closer to contending if they hadn't squandered Sergachev in a "win-now" move.

Sorry but some of you guys are freaking disingenuous. You have the gall to bring up the Sergachev trade. An overwhelming majority of posters were ecstatic about that trade. I know cause I had numerous run ins about it. It was a brain dead trade on MB's part. So please don't bring it up as any justification for whatever argument you're trying to make.

... Because it was clear Price alone wouldn't take us to a cup on his own.

You know, Bergevin has been here for what, 7 drafts, and we've made literally zero progress compared to where we were when he first took over.

We wouldn't be asking for a rebuild 7 years down the line had Bergevin had any sort of plan, 7 years ago.

I can't argue with you on that point. I completely agree but whichever road the team takes, your way through tanking or my way through building with what we got, it will be with MB.

 

[Habby Gilmore]

I’d like to see the team work hard and play well all season, but ultimately end up losing a lot of tight 1 goal/OT games, ending up with a top 5 pick. Maybe even next year too.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I known what would happen as a wildcard team, we'd be swept in 4 games.

Bottom 5 and we pick Kakko or Dach.

Kakko please, Kotka/Kakko

 

[Seb]

Tank nation isnti dead folks, don't let yourself be blinded by the surprising start.

 

[Canadienna]

60 points is a little low. I see them getting 75pts-80pts

Thing is it’s hard to have your offence firing on all cylinders when you’re missing centres and puck movers.....add Poehling, Cozens and a more experienced Kotkaniemi and if they can package a few wingers for a top LHD, it changes the dynamic of this team.

Add UFA’s cause we all know we have tons of cap space and we are looking at something that’s potentially special.

Again, I'm not trying to predict anything in this thread. 75-80 points would (barring lottery) likely get them a pick around 7-10 OA.

So again I ask.

Would you rather add a ~7-10 OA pick to a 75-80 point team or a ~20OA pick to a 90 point team?

 

[sheed36]

I would much rather the Habs finish bottom 5 again this season and get another potential high end elite prospect instead of making the playoffs and getting knocked out in 4-5 games in round 1. Big picture for me.

 

[DAChampion]

Sorry but some of you guys are freaking disingenuous. You have the gall to bring up the Sergachev trade. An overwhelming majority of posters were ecstatic about that trade. I know cause I had numerous run ins about it. It was a brain dead trade on MB's part. So please don't bring it up as any justification for whatever argument you're trying to make.

Who the f*** is "you guys"?

I speak for one poster: myself.

My view on the Sergachev trade was that it made sense of the Habs kept Radulov and Markov. I will bring it up as I please.

 

[teamfirst]

To me tanking is the complete opposite of what competitive sports should be, sometimes i wonder what the NHL would look like if all the teams that are not so called ''true conteder'' decided to tank the same year, i think if this ever happens thats when i'll stop watching hockey

Cuz i think that maybe 6 to 8 team in the league meet the definition of true conteders for some here...... might as well not play the season and start the playoffs right away with those contenders

Maybe the solution is to make the draft a big lottery

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

Again, I'm not trying to predict anything in this thread. 75-80 points would (barring lottery) likely get them a pick around 7-10 OA.

So again I ask.

Would you rather add a ~7-10 OA pick to a 75-80 point team or a ~20OA pick to a 90 point team?

If we are a 90 point team we just overachieved. It would not mean we are close to being a contending team. This team has no top goal scorer, with Weber out not top pairing D, a weak bottom pair and as of now, no top 6 centre.

There are so many holes in this team that the only way to fix it is through the draft.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I disagree many teams got good prospect for similar type of player.

I mean look at Pacioretty, Duchene/Turris, Erat, Gomez, Griffin Reinhart trades they got in return some very good top prospects. Not saying that it is easy but it's not out of question.

The pressure to win is very for some teams and they would be willing to sacrifice their future for instant help.

Shaw, Petry and Plekanec are not the same thing as Paccioretty. Let's stay in the real world here. Plekanec might not be picked up if he were on waivers at this point. Shaw is a role player and Petry has some value but he's not going to land anything close to what Max did.

Define a top pick.

Why?

Seriously man, why are you being like this? The higher the pick the better. Why are you trying to turn this into a fight? Why can't it just be a discussion about what the team is doing?

In general I'd say a top five is good but the higher you get the better. If we get a top ten pick that's fine too. The more you have and the higher you have the better you are. Once you get into the top three your odds of drafting an elite player are exponentially higher than drafting outside the top ten...

Obviously your definition is different from mine. For me Price is a top pick (5) but we scream, rant and yell when he leads the way with outstanding goaltending.

We landed two superstars with Carey Price and PK Subban. One was a lottery pick top five that we had no business getting and the other was a late pick steal.

Do I care where we land elite talent? No. If we could regularly land PK Subbans in the 2nd or 3rd round I'd be all for it. The reason why high picks are valued the way they are is because they yield consistently better results than lower picks. If we can get superstars later then great... but I don't see that happening. The reason top picks are valued is because they yield REPEATABLE success.

Kotkaniemi was a top pick (3). Drouin was a top pick (3). So far I'm counting 3. Two more than the template you laid down.

Or instead of top pick do you mean an elite player? If that's what you mean then scratch Drouin but add Weber and maybe add Suzuki and Brook.

Kotkaniemi is great, so is Suzuki... we need to do MORE of this. Drouin was a gamble that didn't pay off but it looks like Domi might.

But if you really mean a top pick then to get that top pick you gotta unload Weber, Price, Tatar, Bryon, Gallagher, Petry and maybe even Niemi and then you'll get your top pick. So you're going to trade away 6 excellent hockey players to get a top pick and some lower picks and/or prospects that might or might not turn out to be as good as the players you unloaded. I don't see the winning percentages in that strategy.

Exactly. Unload those guys, we aren't going to win anything with them anyways. Let them go win somewhere else and we can start over here. And they don't have to turn out to be as good as the guy you unloaded either... they can be good young players and you're still better off.

I don't really care if Price wins a cup somewhere else. He isn't going to do it here. He's not... accept this. So I'm fine trading him elsewhere for a young prospect who can help this team win in the future. He might not win a Hart trophy along the way but who cares? He can help us win 5,10 maybe even 15 years from now. Get the best young player you can.

But hey like Montreal said what we think doesn't affect anything.

Not sure what you mean here. Montreal indicated there's no silver bullet to winning and I'd agree with him. You can't just assume that if you draft high you'll win cups. It takes more than that. But if you aren't drafting high then you're making things harder on yourself.

People were actually very happy with Price back when he was elite.

We had a great young core that could've become a perpetual contender with a few moves, but it's gone now. It's time to move on.

Yea and bytching and whining that he had to carry the team.

He never should've had to but he did. It was pathetic given the club we had.

... Because it was clear Price alone wouldn't take us to a cup on his own.

You know, Bergevin has been here for what, 7 drafts, and we've made literally zero progress compared to where we were when he first took over.

We wouldn't be asking for a rebuild 7 years down the line had Bergevin had any sort of plan, 7 years ago.

Yep, imagine if he'd actually IMPROVED on what we had. Imagine if we didn't play da system and actually had a good AHL coach. We could've made a serious run.

Sorry but some of you guys are freaking disingenuous. You have the gall to bring up the Sergachev trade. An overwhelming majority of posters were ecstatic about that trade. I know cause I had numerous run ins about it. It was a brain dead trade on MB's part. So please don't bring it up as any justification for whatever argument you're trying to make.

I won't speak for others but I'm okay with taking risks for young talent that you think is elite. But if you're going to gamble the way he did, you'd better follow it up. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to make that trade. Don't go get Drouin only to let others leave and then not fill in the holes you need to fill. That's just a ridiculous way to run a club.

Moreover, don't trade for him and then play him out of position. It's totally stupid how we've run things here. We put Drouin at center where he's not comfortable and Chuck on the wing where he's less effective. What other team in the league is worse with its players?

 

[strongcomp05]

i swear to god if we are a wildcard team, I will burn all my habs gear and stop watching hockey forever

 

[Canadienna]

i swear to god if we are a wildcard team, I will burn all my habs gear and stop watching hockey forever

Hey aren't you the same guy who said last week that he hated all his fellow Habs fans because they overreact?

 

[strongcomp05]

Also just want to add that finishing bottom 5 likely means another poor season from Price and the young guns in the lineup not getting on the board as much as we'd like. Whereas a young team with say 92 points is going to get some wins on the backs of it's youth. - Valuable experience

smh

WHO f***ING CARES if we suck this year, and that price sucks and our young guys dont score that much, its all completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Its this exact idiotic, archaic way of thinking thats gotten us in this position to start with.

 

[strongcomp05]

Hey aren't you the same guy who said last week that he hated all his fellow Habs fans because they overreact?

yup - to be fair, hate most habs fan regardless of overreacting or not.

 

[Canadienna]

smh

WHO ****ING CARES if we suck this year, and that price sucks and our young guys dont score that much, its all completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Its this exact idiotic, archaic way of thinking thats gotten us in this position to start with.

I'm sure nearly all of the posters on this board would rather have our young guys score a lot than not that much.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Again, I'm not trying to predict anything in this thread. 75-80 points would (barring lottery) likely get them a pick around 7-10 OA.

So again I ask.

Would you rather add a ~7-10 OA pick to a 75-80 point team or a ~20OA pick to a 90 point team?

most years it would be good enough for #6 or #5, maybe even #4 with some luck...

#20 means, only 10 teams were better at 90 points, you know...

 

[Andrei79]

i swear to god if we are a wildcard team, I will burn all my habs gear and stop watching hockey forever

Lol. I had the same frustration when we ended up 3rd at the draft lottery. Ending up with Kotka made up for it however.

Truth though is being out of the playoffs by TDL means we're almost assuredly adding a 1st and probably another 2nd.

If we end up with Cozens/Dach + a mid/late first and another good batch of seconds, we'll have a stacked base of young players and we'll be ready to shoot for higher in the standings.

As of now though, we're only half assing the job if we don't finish low enough.

 

[Canadienna]

most years it would be good enough for #6 or #5, maybe even #4 with some luck...

#20 means, only 10 teams were better at 90 points, you know...

Hmm, I'm confused maybe...

I thought it had to do with your playoff finish.

 

[Belial]

I will never be able to hope for this team to suck and lose! But if it happens then so be it.

 

[ECWHSWI]

No I think it means you were the 5th team out of the playoffs.

" The basic order of the NHL Entry Draft is determined based on the standings of the teams in the previous season. As with the other major sports leagues, the basic draft order is intended to favour the teams with the weakest performance who presumably need the most improvement in their roster to compete with the other teams. Subject to the results of the NHL Draft Lottery (discussed below), the teams pick in the same order each round, with each team getting one pick per round. The basic order of the picks is determined as follows:[7]

1. The teams that did not qualify for the playoffs the previous season (picks 1–15)
2. The teams that made the playoffs in the previous season but did not win either their division in the regular season or play in the Conference Finals (picks 16–23 up to 27)
3. The teams that won their divisions in the previous season but did not play in the Conference Finals (potentially picks 24–27)
4. The teams that lose in Conference Finals (picks 28 and 29)
5. The team that was the runner-up in the Stanley Cup Finals (pick 30)
6. The team that won the Stanley Cup in the previous season (pick 31)"
   
   From Wiki

20th overall means 19 picked before you... and only 11 picked after you (meaning only 11 got more than 90 points)

not happening.



you either worded it wrong or you don't understand how it works

 

[Canadienna]

20th overall means 19 picked before you... and only 11 picked after you (meaning only 11 got more than 90 points)

not happening.



you either worded it wrong or you don't understand how it works

Fair enough, my point still stands however that adding a mid first to a 90 point team is not far off from adding an early but not top 5 pick to a 75-80 point team.

 

[tooji]

I'd like a top 5 pick but if you ask if I'd rather finish 13th or in a wildcard.. I'll take wildcard

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Looks to me like Detroit, Arizona and NYR are going to be the bottom 3 teams. It is entirely possible that the 4th place team won't be that bad. If we can get to 85 pts and still pick top 10 that would be ideal. I don't want too shitty of a season, but I also want to draft top 10.